Bad News...

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by joromiller, Nov 15, 2013.

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  1. joromiller

    joromiller Initiate (198) Apr 3, 2013 Michigan

    Hey BA community!

    I have an unfortunate situation that I'm hoping to get some input on. A regular trading partner (RTP1) connected me with one of his RTPs. RTP1 knew that I was ISO a specific beer. RTP1 connected me with his RTP (RTP2) who had the specific ISO bottle and wanted to trade it.

    Both RTPs are awesome guys, and great assets to the BA community. RTP2 and I agreed upon a trade for the specific ISO beer, and we shipped this week.

    My package came yesterday. I opened it up, and the specific ISO beer leaked between 1/4 and 1/3 of the bottle. I contacted RTP2, and he said that he'd send my box back to me. RTPs box was packed well, but something obviously happened in transit. I had to crack the bottle last night, and consume what was left. It drank ok, but obviously wasn't up to par b/c it had started to oxidized.

    Here's the kicker...

    The trade was for a legitimate White Whale from the White Whale list. I had to call on two other local friends for to get beers to land the Whale. The 3 of us were going to share the Whale together over the holidays. Unfortunately, they weren't able to come to my house last night b/c of prior commitments so they didn't get any of the beer (even though it was flat).

    I've had a can of HT or an extra break or leak in a box, but never something like this. The RTP2 said he'd just return my box. I told him that I'd want him to take out the extras (b/c there are some really good ones) and possibly some of the beers we agreed upon so it wasn't a total loss.

    I'm sure others have had a similar experience in the past. Both of us are totally cool with handling this off-line, but I'm curious as to how others have resolved a similar situation in an amicable way?

    Would love to hear from you, BA community...
  2. fiedler84

    fiedler84 Aspirant (254) Dec 23, 2011 Pennsylvania

    If he said he was going to return your box to you...why would you take it upon yourself to open the bottle without clearly defining what he would get, before doing so?

    IMHO...You shouldn't have opened the bottle. You should have determined what was going to be done first. He could have made the decision of how the beer tasted.

    Since you drank it, and didn't wait for his should be done once he receives your box. Maybe ask him to kick in some locals or something to it...but...why did you drink the bottle?
    ZamaMan, c64person, mattafett and 2 others like this.
  3. joromiller

    joromiller Initiate (198) Apr 3, 2013 Michigan

    I apologize. He told me to drink it, and he'd send my box back. The bottle was toast. It would have been useless to send it back and he realized it.

    I guess my question is would you expect to get all your beers back if you were in my shoes? From my perspective, I feel really badly about the situation for both RTP2 and myself. I don't want him to be completely screwed in the trade.

    Does that make more sense?
  4. DenverBeerDrinker

    DenverBeerDrinker Aspirant (254) Apr 5, 2012 Colorado

    Curious what beer it was? Are they known to leak?
  5. AJDePaul

    AJDePaul Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Illinois

    If it is an impossible to replace beer, then it really is just a communication thing between you and the other trader. Try to work something out that's fair. That's a hard one.

    I had an Armand Lente leak in a trade. Not much leakage but enough that something had to be done. I sent him another Armand...
  6. whitemomba

    whitemomba Initiate (0) Mar 19, 2011 Virginia

    The fact he drank it though says trade complete? Right? If sender evens it out with a nice growler or a bottle or 2 of something special, you might just have to write it off.
    raymo55 likes this.
  7. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan

    Once you popped the bottle open....the transaction is complete! Would have been better off just re shipping both boxes back to each other.
    That BVDL isn't necessarily a "white whale" it probably would have heald up until your buddies made it around to drink it!
    TheGoof likes this.
  8. JMRSN

    JMRSN Initiate (175) Aug 9, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Yeah, curious to know what the bottle was. This is a tough one. If I was in this situation, I wouldn't have drank the bottle. I would have sent it back and got my bottles back. No harm no foul type of thing. Since you drank it, whether they said to or not, I don't think you should get anything back. Maybe they send a good makeup box or something. I'm sure you can work something out.
  9. BeRanger

    BeRanger Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2011 Michigan

    It's a tough situation complicated by the fact that you immediately drank a good 2/3 to 3/4 of said White whale.

    While an awful situation, I'd always want to see a video of you drain pouring that while crying to get your box returned.

    Perhaps he is returning 1/3 of the box or some agreed upon amount?

    I would just have a hard time stomaching losing my White Whale, sending the other end of the trade back and knowing the majority of the bottle was still consumed.

    Tough situation indeed.
    whitemomba likes this.
  10. JohnPPutz

    JohnPPutz Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2011 Illinois

    whitemomba likes this.
  11. phishphorce

    phishphorce Disciple (379) Aug 4, 2011 Pennsylvania

    You drank the bottle? Was that agreed upon before you opened it?

    What beer was it? Was it a cork and cage? Waxed? Just capped?

    Need more info.
  12. cradke

    cradke Initiate (0) Feb 10, 2009 Texas

    ^^This. The second you consume anything in a box sent your way, the deal is over. You could have put that in a gallon zip lock bag, and sent it back to him and let him have his old beer back and enjoy the 2/3 of it. You should have made a consensus decision before downing 2/3 a a BVDL
    TheGoof likes this.
  13. TheGoof

    TheGoof Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2013 Michigan

    If you drink it, there's no going back.
    raymo55 and phishphorce like this.
  14. ShanePB

    ShanePB Poo-Bah (2,011) Sep 6, 2010 Pennsylvania

    Either way, you consumed the bottle he sent you. Probably not under the circumstances you wanted, but you drank the bottle nonetheless. That would kind of seal the deal, IMO.
  15. shadowane

    shadowane Initiate (88) Sep 7, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Uh, did no one notice that the other trader told him to drink it?
  16. nicks6217

    nicks6217 Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2010 California

    Its the shippers obligation to make sure the bottle got there intact. Shipping back a leaking bottle is dumb by all accounts, what purpose does it serve to return back a leaking bottle other than risking further damage in transit and confirming what both parties already know, that its already flat.
  17. joromiller

    joromiller Initiate (198) Apr 3, 2013 Michigan

  18. Beerandboards

    Beerandboards Initiate (0) Nov 6, 2012 New Mexico

    My question is how did a waxed bottle leak? Where was the leak coming from? Was the wax broken?

    In any event, drinking it completes the trade.
  19. nicks6217

    nicks6217 Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2010 California

    It happens, I've had Rivertown Lambic leak on me and it's also waxed.
  20. stevec32

    stevec32 Disciple (337) Mar 26, 2012 New York

    If it were me and the other trader told me to drink whats left of the beer and he would send the box back. I would drink the beer and ask him to keep the extras and whatever bottle was mine in the trade and just send back the beers that belonged to my friends.
    mrcraft and shadowane like this.
  21. shadowane

    shadowane Initiate (88) Sep 7, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Yeah pretty much. I'd also figure out how he packed his bottle so I could never pack it like that. And then tell him to pack better when he's sending valuable things.

    edit: Unless it's Cantillon which apparently leaks like crazy no matter what you do.
    joromiller likes this.
  22. JohnPPutz

    JohnPPutz Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2011 Illinois

    You're assuming the bottle was poorly packed, there was no mention of that at all.
  23. stevec32

    stevec32 Disciple (337) Mar 26, 2012 New York

    Also to everyone saying that because the OP drank what remained of the beer the deal is done, let me ask you this....

    If the other trader started a thread saying "bad news, I shipped a whale that I cant replace to a trading partner and in transit it leaked and lost about 1/4 to 1/3 of its liquid. What should I do?"

    Would you respond "Tell him to drink whats left then keep the beer he sent you because its a done deal"?

    Its a crappy situation for both parties but I know that no matter what side I was on of it I wouldnt want the other guy to get totally screwed.
    chum_husk and chuckycheese like this.
  24. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan

    There is no mention of alot of things.

    That along with the OP dooming the bottle makes this whole thing sketchy.

    If the trader told you to jump off a cliff...would you do that right away with no question as well?
  25. shadowane

    shadowane Initiate (88) Sep 7, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Fair enough. I guess it could have leaked on its own due to poor capping or something. Without more information, I would just assume it was the packaging.
  26. JohnPPutz

    JohnPPutz Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2011 Illinois

    I've had a waxed bottle sent to me in a styro shipper, with the bottle wrapped in bubble wrap that leaked.Not sure how that happened, weird shit happens sometimes.
  27. joromiller

    joromiller Initiate (198) Apr 3, 2013 Michigan

    This is my dilemma. I essentially got the short end of the deal, but I don't want the other person to get screwed too. I didn't post this hoping ppl would say, "JR was screwed. Get your beers back, man." I posted this b/c I've never had to deal with a situation like this.

    The bottle was waxed. It was packed well. I cannot speak to exactly why it leaked. The wax looked cracked...maybe by the cold? Where does the burden of responsibility for a beer trade end?

    Herein lies the ultimate question for me.
  28. cradke

    cradke Initiate (0) Feb 10, 2009 Texas

    I think your consumption of the beer means this trade has completed. I think you really should have had a plan in place before you ever tampered or consumed the bottle and it's your fault for not doing that. If the package did develop a leak in transit, it's a reasonable assumption to make that it didn't begin to leak on your porch and probably was opened at least a day or 2 before it arrived. Based on that, it would also be safe to assume it wouldn't deteriorate much more than it already has and your haste to consume the beer was unnecessary.

    To play devils advocate, though not accusing you of this... a crook could have altered the beer when it safely landed to make it look like it was the senders fault. To make sure that's not the case, the sender could ask for the bottle back shipped in it's original container as is. You have precluded this possibility from happening.

    Because you consumed the beer, I think that this trade is now in the 'keepsies' zone. Though it certainly would be reasonable to work out a deal with the sender to send something your way, though frankly, if he doesn't send you anything, I could not fault him.
  29. JMagee

    JMagee Initiate (0) Jan 2, 2013 New York

    I know things change when really elusive one-offs are involved, and I will admit that my Whale game is not strong.


    You all seem like very communicative upstanding beer traders who have kept each other abreast of what's been going on, and you all seem genuinely concerned about coming to a reasonable solution.

    Just let him keep the box. I'm sure he'll take care of you at some point in the future.
    iguenard and All4MeNone4You like this.
  30. stevec32

    stevec32 Disciple (337) Mar 26, 2012 New York

    Is everyone missing that the other trader TOLD him to drink the beer or do they just not care?
    chum_husk, nanobrew, powz87 and 3 others like this.
  31. cradke

    cradke Initiate (0) Feb 10, 2009 Texas

    I am saying that regardless what the sender says, it's the receivers job not to touch it until a mutual agreement is set.
  32. ShanePB

    ShanePB Poo-Bah (2,011) Sep 6, 2010 Pennsylvania

    There are two sides to every story... I'm not calling anyone a liar, but it would be nice to hear what transpired from the other end.
    cradke likes this.
  33. stevec32

    stevec32 Disciple (337) Mar 26, 2012 New York

    the agreement was that he could drink it and the other trader would send back his box. Now the OP feels bad that the other trader is taking the whole hit and wants to come up with a way so that the other trader gets something out of the deal and they share the loss.
    chum_husk likes this.
  34. lookrider

    lookrider Defender (667) Apr 22, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Why not have the guy who's sending the box back keep the box instead. I think everyone should keep the boxes they got in the trade and the sender who sent the bottle that leaked makes that up to the recipient in a mutually agreeable manner.
    cradke, striker2160 and whiskey like this.
  35. joromiller

    joromiller Initiate (198) Apr 3, 2013 Michigan


    My guess is that some folks are only reading the initial post or not fully reading the initial post or not reading my replies @stevec32 .

    I sent 6 pictures to the guy via text prior to opening the bottle. He told me consume the beer and that he'd send my box back. Simply put, I don't want a good BAer to get screwed out of his bottle of beer and the beers he was trading for. I want to treat him the way I'd want to be treated.

    Again, I didn't post this looking for anything other than people who may have experienced a similar situation in the past and how they resolved it.

    Thanks all!
    richardflyr likes this.
  36. phishphorce

    phishphorce Disciple (379) Aug 4, 2011 Pennsylvania

    What does the other person want? That is and important question in this whole thing? Are they happy being out of a "whale" and getting nothing in return for a properly packed bottle that leaked?

    Also what was the correspondance? When you sent him pictured did he straight up say "Drink it and I'll send your stuff back"? or was it more ambigous than that?

    More info would be necessary for a proper diagnosis of a resolution. Just my opinion.
  37. whiskey

    whiskey Disciple (306) Feb 25, 2012 California

    I have to agree. If he's been a regular trading partner and he's always done your right, let him keep it and he can make it up to the OP later. Chances are he would make it up and then some.
  38. amnesia85

    amnesia85 Initiate (0) Mar 31, 2012 Connecticut

    This thread is hilarious. More than 2/3 of these posts did not read anything in the OPs original post and subsequent posts. Lolz.

    OP this situation is really between you and you TPs, the fact you started this thread in the first place is kinda weird but I digress... (No offense, I'm not trying to be a douche) ive had the situation happen to me, the trader offered to replace the actively leaking bottle that I planned to drink at a later time with family. I told him not to never mind about it as it seemed a little over the top and it was packaged fine ie out of his control. I drank the bottle, it tasted bad, I chaulked it up with the rest of the mishaps I have had since joining in 2012. The fact that the trader offered to replace the bottle or send mine back was good enough for me. I told him the bottle was fine and haven't heard from him since.

    Did I make a new friend / trading partner out of it? No. Was the beer ruined? Yes. Was it his fault? No. It's really up to u to decide. And nobody else.
  39. MacJenkins

    MacJenkins Initiate (0) Feb 14, 2012 Michigan

    I'm with @amnesia85 on being confused on the exact reason for this post. OP states he wants to treat the trade partner how he would want to be treated, which is admirable, but do you really need the advice or approval of the BA community to figure out what that is? Just put yourself in his situation, decide what resolution would make you happy and do it. This thread seems more like an attempt to convince us you're a good guy than actually seeking input.
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