Bad Trader: Amarangakis (RESOLVED)

Sorry it happened to you. Hopefully @Amarangakis will make it right! What beer does he owe you?

 

@Amarangakis is viewing this page right now. Do you care to explain your side of the story?

 

Was a trade request ever sent/accepted? If not then its kind of up in the air, plus I feel like the details are kind of vague here...???

And OP, I understand you being upset, but your seeming hostility makes me not want to trade with you or the individual you are calling out

 

Phone numbers (and emails) should've been exchanged before you guys did the very FIRST trade.

 

Hmmmm......red flag!?

 

For whatever reason you're being vague as to details.

But unfortunately the bottom line is based on what you yourself have written, this isn't a trade arranged on BA, which means not much will be done to him here if anything by the powers that be.

@F2brewers @blue-dream .....

 

True statement, but it's still shitty

 

I am with @TheVicster on this one. If the trade wasn't in the BA system, then this is basically just a flame post. The trading rules are very clear.

You may well have been screwed out of your beers, but it isn't really a Beer Advocate bad trader issue.

 

If its a person who trades on Beer Advocate and the trading relationship was originally established on BA, then I at least want to know about it. A good trader should hold all of his/her trades to the same standard, not just the ones set up on here. If the person had no affiliation with BA then fine, agreed, but this is at least a PSA about a trader on this site. It seems its especially needed since feedback is not an option in this case. I'm not saying the "powers that be" here should take any action, but this is good to know.

 

If theres someone using BA to take advantage of people its most certainly an issue.

 

It is certainly good information if it is all true I agree, but to be fair, we have nothing to go on here. The OP is pretty vague, any PMs can't be forwarded to Mods, there are no accepted trades in the system etc...

It also isn't an especially helpful post - there are a few insults and a lot of rambling. If you don't follow the trading rules, then sure it sucks you got screwed, but how are the Mods supposed to actually confirm any of this?

 

C'mon, really? He first traded with this guy on BA. Now somebody didn't stick to the precise letter & law of the rules, so you're going to tell him to get lost & not warn the trading community that there's somebody who is actively trading on this site who is a bad trader? Do you people come to a full & complete stop at STOP signs, too?

Yes, we should use the system, & the OP should have too. But a few Bad Trader threads recently have become side shows where packing or language or something else have become the focus. The OP looks to have been ripped off. I'd be pissed too (though perhaps be a bit more delicate about it).

Let's try to focus on the issue - there's another questionable trader in our midst.

 

I agree it sucks, and if it is true, then I would want the bad trader banned, but how are the Mods supposed to actually look into any of this?
I don't mean to flame the OP - I would be pissed too, and I feel for him.

Edit: The rules are very clear
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/how-to-create-a-bad-trader-thread.258091/

The first and third bullets

 

since the OP hasn't provided specifics and/or documentation of anything, we're.......what? Supposed to take his word on everything? Everything being just what exactly because has been already noted, his posts are mostly incomprehensible ramblings.

But you may have a point........I mean, it's not.like anybody has ever started a thread like this and it turned out they were full of it, or THEY were the bad trader....hey..........wait a second.......

 

However, don't you find it strange that @Amarangakis viewed this thread bashing him and did not respond at all. I know if someone was full of it and posting crap about me it would take seconds for me to fire back my side......

 

You have a valid point. I still want OP to be more specific though.

 

@eisebeer

There is a format and criteria for a bad trader thread:
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/how-to-create-a-bad-trader-thread.258091/

Honestly, it sucks and I feel for you, but I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thread got deleted. The Mods can't really do anything for you, and frankly the other guy can just report the thread and say he doesn't have an open trade with you and it will all get deleted.

 

I would hope the Mods would at least wait until @Amarangakis publicly comes on hear to explain their side of the story before possibly deleting this thread. BA trade or not, it still could have negative ramifications for BA users in the future.

 

He has looked at this thread several times since it was posted. And he's yet to respond.

 

I completely agree - it is a dick move. It sucks, and I don't mean to beat you down or anything, but yeah, if he is just gaming, I wouldn't be surprised if he reported the thread and just said you never had a trade.

Explain what though? There isn't a BA trade? If I was him, I would shut my mouth, report the thread and make damn sure my open trades all went well.

 

Are you giving him a way to get out of this? Its pretty obvious that if he is viewing this and not responding- he just doesn't want to explain.

 

My thoughts on this are hypothetically someone is in the wrong and deleting this thread will would serve no purpose until getting to the bottom of this, whether the trade was on BA or not. At the very least, leave it up and allow others to decide for themselves.

 

Long story short, use the trade system! There are only a few guys I don't use the trade system with, but we aren't really setting up "agreed trades" any longer, but just sending each other stuff randomly because we are tight like that. I feel for the OP but after one trade with somebody I'm not assuming everything is cool

 

I'm far less concerned with rules & lawyering & much more concerned about stopping active traders from ripping people off. If you feel differently, so be it. And make sure to come to a complete (not a rolling) stop on the way home.

As others have noted, the fact that the other party is viewing the thread & hasn't bothered to responds brings on a huge, blinking red light. I would appreciate this thread being left up as a reference for the future, especially if the accused never shows his face.

 

To me, the only time when you don't call people out for screwing you over is when the trade is done completely elsewhere AND the called out party is not a member of the site to defend themselves. Otherwise, as long as the accused can face the accuser, it's all fair game. Both the accused and accusers have equally as much to lose. Since @Amarangakis is a member here as is the OP, this need to be addressed regardless of a trade request was made or accepted, not to mention they met and traded on BA before and developed trust on BA.

Many people do this, forgoing subsequent trade requests, so using that as a mandatory criteria for calling out bad traders doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I'm concerned, any subsequent trade between BAs after the initial trade was done is done on BA.

While the OP could've been a little more calm and detailed, we know enough now who is accused of screwing whom over. Until @Amarangakis chimes in with his side of the story, he's as bad as he was accused to be.

 

Not everyone is confrontational. If the accused trader came on now they would probably just get flamed - I can understand why someone wouldn't want to deal with that. Don't get me wrong, alarm bells are ringing, and I agree, something is fishy, but since the trade is outside of the BA system the Mods can't see any details - hence we get accusations and pitch forks with no substance. I personally am going to withhold judgement.

 

Hi all. I've been following along and have a few things to say from my side.

Dude. You reported this member not once, but twice. I advised you to open a bad trader thread, but you never mentioned that the trade in question didn't happen on BA. I feel like you haven't been fully honest and that's not good.

You need to come back and lay out *all* the details.

Normally, I would more or less agree with this sentiment. However, an earlier trade was arranged on BA and one could plausibly argue that @Amarangakis intentionally avoided another formal trade to set up just this scenario. That's also not good.

In principle, yes. But...

Very much this.

If someone is trading on this site and screws someone else over, we should do what we can to protect other traders here...no way I'm letting this simply slide.

As noted above, that's not happening.

We may need to put a bit more thought into what kind of punishment may get meted out, but people who fail to respond to bad trader threads rarely fare well.

@Amarangakis needs to respond. He's read this thread several times and not commented.

Again, very much this.

Which leads to this.

If we can not come to a clear decision, this thread will stay up so that you all can make an informed decision based on your own interpretation of events and asking questions of (IMO) both traders going forward.

So @Amarangakis what happened? Did I make my point strongly enough that you need to respond?

 

So....

Amarangakis was last seen:
Viewing thread How to Create a Bad Trader Thread, 51 minutes ago

 

Couple moar things:

@Amarangakis apparently learned to turn his activity private so the public can't see what pages he's viewing. We'll keep tagging you until you respond. You can't ignore this with impunity.

I linked this thread to your profile @Amarangakis so everyone who sees it will know about this. Good luck trading.

A trade was was agreed to...I know because @Amarangakis told me so in a BM. You know, instead of responding here as asked.

After I asked you to publicly respond, you continued to surf other pages instead of responding to anyone.

The clock is ticking...