Bad Trader: chardlogic

Discussion in 'Bad Traders' started by Pasearelli, Sep 9, 2021.

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  1. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    I started a trade with Chard logic about 2 weeks ago. I was iso of Generational ft Westly in which he responded in still open. He responded fairly quickly and we responded to each other the same night of the post.

    After the first couple of responses he then sends me a message starting still interested..... This was after not responding for 12 hours. He seemed impatient so I informed him that there might be long gaps in communication as I am working alot these days but I was interested. Once again after we communicated that we would like to expand he then again asked are you still interest.... (Just trying to paint the picture) I then replied yes. We did 3 for 3.We sent each other tracking numbers which he lagged on sending the box and then the tracking number by a day each.

    So this is were the trade became a failed experience. Chardlogic sends a message stating that he read my ISO wrong and that he sent me the same bottle I put as a ft. He never apologized but rather says enjoy the bottles as I was really looking forward to trying Generational. Came off as entitled to give a sarcastic response like that to a mistake made on his part.

    I then asked since it was his mistake could he refund shipping.... Am I wrong for asking??? I think this would of been more passive than making him get me a Generational. I wouldn't of followed up with that trade unless my main iso was included in on that. We exchange words and thoughts..... He then leads to tell me that I had bad communication when the message I gave in the beginning was that I couldn't respond right away. Once I gave him more feedback his lack of execution he then leaves feedback on a bad trade when I have him exactly what we agreed on. Shipment was received within 2 days shipping to his hands.... On top of that, 1 bottle he sent wasnt wrapped. The long but thin box had a top and bottom had layer of bubble wrap and that's it. Plenty of room for the bottles to move around and crack each other.

    I didn't see the need for him to mark me as a bad trader so I felt this was fair on my part since this was his mistake.
     
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  2. MattOC

    MattOC Zealot (519) Jan 13, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    You both sent each other a Westly, but only realized this after boxes were packed and shipped?
     
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  3. MattOC

    MattOC Zealot (519) Jan 13, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    While misreading a post can certainly happen, yours was quite straightforward and if I was involved in a trade like this my first message would have gone like, “have you closed this? If not, I have your Generational.”

    Then once agreed, each party lays out the bottles involved in messages so it’s clear and confirmed from both sides. If they don’t see the mix up then, it should have never gotten to packing and shipping.

    The call out on communication from their side seems wild. Your post portrays there were plenty of messages and communication. It seems like they were impatient, but that impatience should have lessened once you explained that you would/might be delayed in responding due to work, but interest in getting a deal done remained. That’s good on you for communicating that.

    Not sure that once the mistake was realized, that it could not have been rectified easily. If boxes were already shipped, just turnaround and send them back once they were received. Sort of a wash on cost from that end. Especially since the main bottle you got back from them was one you already had FT and it seems like no one got what they wanted, except maybe from the bottles you expanded with to make it 3:3. If they could not come up with a Generational or something agreed upon with you that satisfied the trade then everything should have been returned.

    As for the feedback, seems like that was done in haste on both sides. They should have apologized for misreading as well as not sending a bottle they thought they had. More communication and patience could have sorted this out amicably. If either feedback was left in retaliation, then it can be grounds for banning.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. rozzom

    rozzom Meyvn (1,039) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Trader

    Maybe post screenshots (redacting any PII/addresses) of the DMs? But seems pretty clear cut based off the OP.
     
  5. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (9,196) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Giving bad feedback for a trader who satisfied their end of the deal is definitely bad trader behavior.

    Either returning both shipments at their expense or refunding the amount your original shipment cost would have been in order.

    Your trade should have been rated good, and if they had done the above, then you would have been justified in marking them either good or neutral.

    But at this point, considering their reaction, rating theirs as bad fits the bill, but the feedback they gave you needs to be adjusted. We usually need a mod to push for that.
     
  6. galos11

    galos11 Devotee (470) Jan 21, 2015 Illinois
    Society Trader

    This couldn’t be any clearer!
     
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  7. MattOC

    MattOC Zealot (519) Jan 13, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I agree. Even with a misread, which I think is a stretch here, the bottles in the trade should be laid out in messages so everyone is on the same page before anything is packed/shipped.
     
  8. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    That step was skipped. First time that we didn't lay it out before accepting trades. I assumed because of the urgency and the clear iso title it was enough. Couldn't get my time back and received a bottle that was out on the road for a longer period of time in 90 degree weather, I still didn't come up even.
     
  9. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    Mines wasn't in retaliation at all. Being delt an headache based on his mistake I believe needs ownership. A simple apology and attempting to make it was all I looking for. Maybe it shouldn't be neutral but I felt not following the system this seemed fitting.
     
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  10. MattOC

    MattOC Zealot (519) Jan 13, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I wasn’t suggesting yours was. Just pointing out the possible punishment for doing so. You’d be inclined to provide bad or neutral. Them leaving bad on you and the communication being the reason is bs.

    I agree with you. An apology should have been there and a trader should do everything in their power to make it right.
     
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  11. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (9,196) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Not sure who the appropriate mod is for this situation, but I think we're ready. @FBarber can we seek some mod input at this point?
     
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  12. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (5,278) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

    First off, I am going to tag @chardlogic and give him a chance to offer his side of the story. I would like to hear a clear explanation as to why he left bad feedback for @Pasearelli, as it sounds like he fulfilled his side of the trade.

    Also, @Pasearelli, you said you expanded the trade to a 3:3 (from the original ISO:FT). Did either of you at any point list the beers each person was sending?
     
  13. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    No we didn't. Completely own that one.
     
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  14. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (5,278) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

    Gotcha.
     
  15. Peterock27

    Peterock27 Aspirant (234) Oct 4, 2016 New York
    Trader

    Wait so you posted ISO generational FT westly...he sent you a westly for your westly and then gave you bad feedback??

    Damn, I would be pissed too if I sent someone a beer only to get the same beer in return...but to then blame someone else for my mistake reading the post is crazy! If anything you should be posting the bad (or neutral) trade feedback.

    GL OP, hope you get things worked out.
     
  16. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    He gave me the bad feedback first. I gave the bad feedback after because my feedback didn't match the situation and he didn't try to make it right. This whole situation trash..... Situation shouldn't be this messy.
     
  17. flat_lander

    flat_lander Champion (848) May 11, 2016 Illinois
    Society Trader

    This.

    Also, we were closing in on a year without one of these. Boo.

    Last, red rover, red rover, let @chardlogic come over...

    EDIT: Regardless of what happens in the end here, @chardlogic you're profile pic is great. Is that like a 4 Loko in a lambic basket, in a HF glass?
     
  18. Peterock27

    Peterock27 Aspirant (234) Oct 4, 2016 New York
    Trader

    Homer Simpson voice: mmmm, blue hill farmstead!
     
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  19. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (7,048) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    So would I, but my guess is we might need to wait a bit. He's not the most active BA member.

    There are a number of aspects of the original trade agreement/arrangement that I find somewhat puzzling, but the negative feedback seems unexplainable and completely unjustified. However, after reading thru numerous past BT threads, I've learned to reserve judgement until we hear the full story and/or explanation.
     
  20. monstershu

    monstershu Initiate (31) Jun 10, 2020 Illinois
    Trader

    So, not to toot my own horn or anything, but-

    At the height of the VSOJ craze, I misread a ISO/FT with @Topease. We would have sent each other the same thing. Luckily, I realized this before either of us shipped anything (<24 hrs), but it was enough time for him to mark his post as closed. I felt so bad for him missing prime trading time that I sent him a box of locals and semi-chase BAs valued around $50 and shipping of $18. I thought that was the bare minimum I could do for the inconvenience.

    I think anyone misreading a trade post should at least make right by refunding shipping, and at most send an apology box for messing with “time in market” aka trade opportunity lost.
     
  21. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    Real talk. I just wanted shipping cost but to be insulted then giving the rating was just a slap in the face......
     
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  22. KevinJohnson2

    KevinJohnson2 Devotee (484) Jul 8, 2013 Michigan
    Society Trader

    No response from @chardlogic (was on BA within the last day) seems to speak volumes here...
     
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  23. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (5,278) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

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  24. MattOC

    MattOC Zealot (519) Jan 13, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Cue the “it’s just beer” response. Sure, I didn’t read a 1:1 trade post correctly and pestered OP about communication throughout. Then didn’t really make an effort to make any of this mess right. What’s the big deal?!
     
  25. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (7,048) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    Yep. Invariably, that kind of reaction generally speaks volumes. Knock on wood, maybe he's just taking some time to "collect his thoughts," but this isn't what I would call a positive sign.
     
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  26. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (5,278) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

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  27. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    @FBarber is there a next step from here?
     
  28. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (5,278) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

    I will talk with @Todd and @John_M to decide how to handle @chardlogic. I will be in touch shortly.
     
  29. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (7,048) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    Hi @FBarber.

    Having @Todd ban a BT is really the only recourse in a situation like this. That's always a last resort, as it does nothing to help the OP/victim out. Likewise, I believe @Todd is the only one who can purge the inappropriate, negative trade feedback.

    Normally, I would recommend waiting a bit longer before asking @Todd to apply the ban hammer... Just to give the BT a bit more time to respond and explain his actions (and maybe take some steps towards helping out the OP victim). Not sure how realistic that is in this case. The BT seems to only rarely visit BA, and the one time he logged onto BA after the BT thread, he logged right back off. It's going on 4 days now since he was last on BA.
     
  30. MattOC

    MattOC Zealot (519) Jan 13, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    It’s crazy that it’s gotten to this point. Is it really worth it to stand your ground over your mistake @chardlogic and potentially/likely get banned for it? It’s only been a week and if they lightened up and taken responsibility they could have worked this out with @Pasearelli and simply agreed to what they were looking for to clear up this mess, an apology and the shipping cost. Everything would likely be fine, but here we are.
     
  31. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (7,048) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    Exactly this. But I feel as if this is often the case. It would be so easy to handle this informally, with no need for a BT thread. Just act responsibly, acknowledge you might have made a mistake... Own up to it and do whatever it takes to make the OP whole. Not such a difficult or expensive thing I don't think, at least not when compared to the alternative. We all make mistakes from time to time, no? And yet just as you said, here we are.
     
  32. Pasearelli

    Pasearelli Initiate (163) Mar 1, 2015 California
    Trader

    I don't think it's worth banning the guy but a reference of who everyone is dealing with should be noted. For me, it's completely about clearing my name and that bad trade reference. I'm a solid dude so I just want my trades to stay at 100% cuz thats what I deserve. Forget the shopping cost at this point don't even care anymore.
     
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  33. MattOC

    MattOC Zealot (519) Jan 13, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I don’t necessarily think they should be banned either, but the way they’ve handled this has grounds for it.

    Based on how you’ve laid it out, their feedback was completely false. Seemed like there was plenty of communication and they just left pissy feedback as a way of lashing out for their mistake.

    I’d imagine whatever way it goes with them, your reputation will be returned and remain intact.

    Whatever happens with your feedback for them, if it stays bad or you change it to neutral, people should always be checking users recent trade feedback so people will be able to this recent mark against their record.
     
  34. Lorddevn

    Lorddevn Initiate (111) Mar 10, 2019 Wisconsin
    Trader

    I agree with not banning the guy and OP should have his bad trade changed so he’s back to 100%. But the thing I find odd is @chardlogic was so quick to lock this deal down, but has been so silent at this time. Maybe his work has him able to be on a limited amount of time, but once I saw a thread like this I would want to be quick to say my side of the story.
     
  35. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (7,048) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    Ultimately, it's @Todd's decision, but my feeling is that @chardlogic has provided ample grounds for a ban. Unless we disbelieve the OP's story, there's absolutely no basis for the negative feedback he provided. At this point I'm completely mystified as to what prompted it. It's almost as if he decided to make a "preemptive strike," hitting the OP with negative feedback before the OP could do it first. Maybe there's some other reasonable explanation, but seeing as how @chardlogic has avoided BA and this thread since the original post, there's no way to know.

    I can certainly understand @Pasearelli's desire to just put this behind him and be done with it, but at this point some decision needs to be made with respect to @chardlogic. At the very least, I think his behavior is deserving of negative feedback, and I agree that the negative feedback @Pasearelli received should be purged.

    It's going on a week now since @chardlogic was last on BA. He's an infrequent visitor to the site anyway, but I'm starting to wonder if this maybe the last we'll ever see of him.
     
  36. flat_lander

    flat_lander Champion (848) May 11, 2016 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Really weird that someone with 10.5 years and almost 40 trades on BA wouldn't come here to tell their side of things.
     
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  37. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (7,048) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    Agreed. I keep thinking there must be more to the story... Something we're missing.

    I was taking a look at some of the feedback he's gotten in the past, and this latest nonsense just seems completely out of character. Something just doesn't add up.
     
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  38. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,506) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    I've reached out to @chardlogic. If he doesn't reply by EOD tomorrow, we'll assume that he's not interested in clearing things up.
     
  39. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,506) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    Update: He's opted log in during this thread, ignore it, and then ignore my email that gave him the option to reply here and attempt to clear things up. So, I've purged the feedback and banned his account.
     
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