Bar pulls beer from sale after customer claims the bottle looks like a KKK hood

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by AZBeerDude72, Jul 14, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MistaRyte

    MistaRyte Zealot (558) Jan 14, 2008 Virginia
    Trader

    Anyone remember playing original Legend of Zelda and getting the map for the Manji dungeon as a kid?

    Hooray, the map... what the f**k?
     
    GetMeAnIPA, ChicagoJ and Longhorn08 like this.
  2. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (3,148) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Speaking of racist imagery, are you willing to change your avatar Ron?
     
    TJM, ChicagoJ and HouseofWortship like this.
  3. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (2,507) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    I’m sure Sweden and GB are hard core KKK supporters right? There’s like no Clan ties there. It’s like there’s support to change the name of Lynchburg Va, because of the name, happens the founders name was John Lynch. We can push this stuff way too far, there’s not nazis or bigots behind every tree.
     
  4. pjeagles

    pjeagles Initiate (164) May 29, 2005 New Mexico
    Trader

    But who can fault the lady for her immediate reaction? She sees a beer presented at the table as a mini klan member. Yeah, it says Yellow Belly on it. Maybe you take it the way it's supposed to be taken. But it's not clear right away that it's making fun of the klan like, say, a beer with a cartoon of Hitler with his pants down that's called "Little Dicky Dopplebock" would be clear to Jewish people (I would hope). My personal opinion is that after she is presented with the facts of the beer's purpose she should change her tone, but I also think some education of the servers anywhere that carry the beer would be a no-brainer. "I'll have this Yellow Belly beer." "Oh ok, the anti ku klux klan beer? Are you familiar with the backstory on this?"
     
    nc41 and pro100 like this.
  5. pro100

    pro100 Initiate (107) Oct 12, 2014 California

    Now I say this respectfully.. He's not a black American and if he was there's no way in hell he's putting a beer in that bottle for release to the public. He's a black European and I'm sure he's dealt with some racism over there in some form or fashion. The KKK is something black Americans had to deal with. There's different black experiences and history from country to country. Sometimes I have to explain some things to a few friends that are from Lagos Nigeria or from London England and in turn they'll have to do the same for me if I'm not familiar to how they were raised or the things they've dealt with in their native lands. Henok's viewpoint of the KKK is going to be different than my viewpoint of growing up in the states so much that he decided to put a beer in a KKK themed bottle.

    And even though he has the explanation on the bottle that still doesn't cut it. Say for instance you make a beer with the bottle art being Hitler with a concentration camp in the background and you hand the beer to a Jewish guy and he instantly becomes outraged over it.. but in turn you say, "Oh don't get mad, tear the label off and read the fine print. Its actually dissing Hitler." But the damage has already been done cause just maybe he has long lost relatives that were affected by this and he's see it differently which is his right. Or you make some bottle/can art featuring the Oklahoma Bombing or the Twin Towers in NY burning down and just because its part of the craft beer movement the people have to accept that beer because there's some fine print somewhere that explains its purpose.. That's bullshit!

    Omnipollo and Henok are a great brewery no doubt but I refuse to co-sign that bottle. Never will. My entire family/both sides are from the Mississippi Delta area and I'm out there visiting them at least twice a year. No way would they want to see that bottle of beer.
     
    Vitacca, TJM, GetMeAnIPA and 7 others like this.
  6. JamFuel

    JamFuel Poo-Bah (5,928) Mar 26, 2009 Sweden
    Moderator Society

    I absolutely understand your point. This is a much larger and more important discussion about society, or maybe about our different and differing societies. And I realize that I can never understand your perspective of this, because I’ve been lucky enough to not have to deal with it. But, I do respect it and fully understand that the visual of this beer can be difficult for some to take. I may not take offense, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be offensive.
     
  7. gatornation

    gatornation Poo-Bah (6,213) Apr 18, 2007 Minnesota
    Society Trader

    Splitting hairs.
     
  8. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (2,507) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    Other than what I read no. Seems like the server needed to do some splainin up front, especially right now.
     
    draheim and woodchipper like this.
  9. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,878) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Society

    Just to expand on this point. I was watching a documentary about Miles Davis a while back, and it talks about his experiences dealing with overt racism in the United States, including being a victim of police brutality. Then he went to Europe and it was a revelation how differently he was treated. Not to say there is no racism there; obviously there is. But it’s different.

    Of course that was in the 1950s and things have changed. But even present-day, one of my best friends is African-American and he goes to Europe almost every year (Amsterdam mostly)—I think one of his first trips (Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany) was with me in the early 1990s. I have to think he keeps going back again and again at least partly because he is treated differently there, and in ways that make him want to return.

    So I find it totally plausible that a black European brewer would not be aware of how KKK-themed packaging, well intentioned or not, might be perceived in the States. This is why big companies have entire marketing divisions devoted to localizing their products for export to other countries, languages, regions, etc. I doubt most craft breweries have such a sophisticated marketing operation in place that would head off incidents like this.
     
    Vitacca, ChicagoJ, nc41 and 2 others like this.
  10. Lorddevn

    Lorddevn Initiate (59) Mar 10, 2019 Wisconsin
    Trader

    Not going to lie. Every time I see that on craft beer kings I do a double take thinking the same thing.
     
  11. Longhorn08

    Longhorn08 Aspirant (253) Feb 4, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    I can assure you the “energy” I’ve spent pales in comparison to others who have about 50 posts in this thread, not naming names.

    I’m not saying anyone can’t be offended, nor did I say that in any of my posts, you can check.

    I am saying forcing someone else to change because they are offending you is wrong. Freedom of speech is a right we have that inherently protects “hateful” speech. Whether is opposing views on race, religion, politics, beer, or anything under the sun, it’s a right we have, and someone forcing another person or business to give up their right (through political pressure or cancel culture) to sell a product is not cool. If we all always agreed we wouldn’t need the right of freedom of speech.

    No one is making this customer ever go back and if that customer chooses to not support this bar or brewery every again it is their right to do so.
     
    JackHorzempa and SP23 like this.
  12. thesherrybomber

    thesherrybomber Devotee (432) Jun 13, 2017 California
    Society Trader

    Then again, I'm trying to remember the last time American sports fans threw bananas at their black players or make monkey sounds during games...

    Probably dependent on where, when, and the black person in question. Poor migrants flooding in is different from an American citizen with money.

    Also think that craft brewers strive to push boundaries, so edgy names/labels are par the course.

    American vs European police? That's an eye-opening conversation
     
    Prep8611 and draheim like this.
  13. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    No one did that. A woman complained publicly about.an experience she had at a business. The business saw the complaint, considered it, and concluded that she was correct and that they didn't actually want that product available in their establishment lest it alienate potential customers.

    Looks to me like freedom of speech and market forces working perfectly as designed.
     
    meefmoff, billandsuz and nc41 like this.
  14. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,878) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Society

    Fair enough. And I read about this study showing racial bias in (I believe mostly European) announcers’ comments about football (American soccer) players that attributed intelligence more to white players and power/speed more to non-white players.
     
    #174 draheim, Jul 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
    Prep8611 and thesherrybomber like this.
  15. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (2,507) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    Agree to a point, so a majority of 1 eliminate a choice for you, or others? Again it’s a marketing, server problem here, so just my opinion.
     
  16. Ronmarley1

    Ronmarley1 Aspirant (232) Jan 20, 2014 Ohio
    Trader

    Looks like things are going that way.
     
  17. Longhorn08

    Longhorn08 Aspirant (253) Feb 4, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    And you don’t think the bar and any pressure to accommodate the complaint????? Maybe they didn’t, but my suspicion is they knew if they didn’t the PC police would be down their throats. This is pure speculation but seems to ring true more often than not in my experience.
     
    JackHorzempa and pjeagles like this.
  18. Stefantheviking

    Stefantheviking Initiate (108) Feb 27, 2015 California
    Trader

    This seams like a sensitive issue but ultimately I'm taking this as tone-deafness. I don't think it's odd for someone to purchase a $40 bottle not knowing anything about it. I've been there. It could have very well been a situation where the bartender was asked for a recommendation for something special/a rare(ish) stout/etc and this is what they suggested not explaining the premise. It was, if not intentional, extremely tasteless and stupid to serve the beer. I can only imagine how hurtful it must have felt.
     
  19. Stefantheviking

    Stefantheviking Initiate (108) Feb 27, 2015 California
    Trader

    Why not get ahead of it then? :wink::+1:
     
  20. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    So you are saying the problem with her complaint is that other people might have agreed with it and therefore the business was under unreasonable market pressure to accommodate the complaint? I'm failing to see what the issue is here?
     
    meefmoff and thesherrybomber like this.
  21. pjeagles

    pjeagles Initiate (164) May 29, 2005 New Mexico
    Trader

    The problem is some people read tweets and don't perform due diligence and decide something needs to turn into a cause. Outrage is an occupation for some people. Look at how fast the gender bathroom issue exploded. Were people willing to say let's sit down and discuss logical ways for this to work or did people decide that RIGHT NOW THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IN THE WORLD. And now one person causes a beer to be pulled. No discussion necessary.
     
    SP23 and Longhorn08 like this.
  22. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Did you read the linked story? There was no "movement" or army of keyboard warriors , a woman complained about an experience on Facebook, the company saw it , thanked her for brining it to their attention, and apparently decided they didn't actually want to deal with the baggage of stocking a beer that looks like a Klansman
     
    meefmoff and HouseofWortship like this.
  23. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,591) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society

    What an outrage.

    I can’t believe a bar is open during the pandemic.
     
  24. pjeagles

    pjeagles Initiate (164) May 29, 2005 New Mexico
    Trader

    I did read it. I think the company saw the writing on the wall and decided it wasn't worth it to educate their servers to explain the beer to their customers, better just to pull it altogether. Emotion sometimes outweighs reason and that's a shame
     
    Longhorn08, Prep8611 and JackHorzempa like this.
  25. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    I really don't understand everyone here who's seemingly upset about this bars decision. Were you guys planning on going in to buy a bottle soon? Have you all been promoting this beer and its antiracist message for years now? I've literally never heard of this beer before now, there's been lots of talk about race relations and craft beer lately and this beer didn't come up, yet all of a sudden its a threat to our culture that a bar decided it probably wasn't worth the hassle of serving a beer that was intentionally designed to look like a hooded Klansman?
     
    meefmoff and StoutElk_92 like this.
  26. Longhorn08

    Longhorn08 Aspirant (253) Feb 4, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    We see change occur all around us due to the vocal minority (no race pun intended here) while the silent majority has to just accept the change.

    It only takes one bad news story, or a few reviews saying the bar is racist to ruin their reputation and entire business.

    Tell me you haven’t seen a person, a product or a business destroyed for one lack of judgement that wipes away years of good. This is the world we live in now. So yes, this is unreasonable market pressure in one mans opinion.
     
    JackHorzempa, SP23 and Prep8611 like this.
  27. StoutElk_92

    StoutElk_92 Poo-Bah (2,858) Oct 30, 2015 Massachusetts
    Society

    I know if I was a server, bartender or manager I wouldn't want to have to explain the history and messaging behind that beer after it was brought out to a public table. The thing is, you might educate that customer but what about all the other people around them that see it? It's not a good look and can lead to misconceptions. The solution is take the bottle out of it's wrapper and then people see the true message on the label and no one sees the hood.
     
  28. pjeagles

    pjeagles Initiate (164) May 29, 2005 New Mexico
    Trader

    I think it's the further breakdown of reasonable/rational discourse that a lot of us are seeing and don't like. I'm for progressive society; I'm for change in many areas. But I also need logic, reason, and discussion to take precedence over raw emotion. I think you have many good points in a lot of your posts across different topics. I don't know that I'll ever achieve the level of empathy that you have but I'll learn to live with myself.
     
  29. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Champion (853) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    Longhorn08 likes this.
  30. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    It sounds like you should exercise your freedom of speech. No one is stopping you.
     
  31. Longhorn08

    Longhorn08 Aspirant (253) Feb 4, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    That is clearly what I’m doing in this thread.
     
  32. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    I guess that's why this particular subject is so confusing to me. We're talking about a beer that was literally designed to look like a mini KKK member. If I owned a bar or restaurant in the us in 2020 I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole. It is an absolute guarantee that you are going to make a potential or former customer uncomfortable with that imagery in your establishment, even if you expend a ton of extra resources putting it in context. Most people don't go to beer to confront the nature of systemic racism, most people seem to look to beer for relaxation.

    No one got boycotted, the brewer isn't getting hate mail, there's no protest calling for anyone to be fired. A black person posted their upset when encountering this potent symbol of hate in a really unexpected environment. The establishment suddenly had a window onto how that product was perceived by a whole entire demographic of potential customers and realized it was a silly business decision to carry that product. They're a bar after all, not a racial justice education center. They don't want to be involved in politics at all I'd imagine. To paraphrase Michael Jordan, black folks buy beer too.
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  33. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Good on ya for that. If you're worried about this establishment and their future I'd recommend you make your voice heard over there so that the "vocal minority" isn't the only voice in the Klansman beer discussion.

    Pretty sure a fellow BA shared that their store is still actively carrying this product, you could big up their store and this product on social.media too if you wanted. Don't let yourself be marginalized
     
  34. Longhorn08

    Longhorn08 Aspirant (253) Feb 4, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Don’t worry, never have and never will!!!
     
  35. pro100

    pro100 Initiate (107) Oct 12, 2014 California

    I get what the gist of what your saying but please please don't excuse the lack of accountability in things of this nature. Like I said in a previous post, I've bartended for numerous years and trust me probably 98% of any bar owner, manager, bartender, server, etc. is not touching that beer with a ten pole. But if you do have that beer in your fridge for sale and a customer reads a beer menu that only has the name of the beer and style and they order it like, "Oh yeah this Pot Belly stout from Onmipollo sounds good, I'll have that".. Now if the bartender/server doesn't follow up and say, "Now I have to warn you that the packaging/bottle is kind of controversial but its also not what you think it is yada yada".. Now if they didn't do that or something similar then in my opinion they never gave a shit about their bar/restaurant despite the years of work they put into it in the first place.

    The restaurant/bar business is cut throat, vicious, and the majority of them don't survive even with a fabulous interior, great food, and service -and a KKK, or Hitler, or a Anti-America beer bottle can make that closure happen overnight. Its not a PC thing. Its a common sense thing. A restaurant or any business in general is all about making money. You're not a real restaurant/bar owner if you have a bottle for sale like that in your establishment imo. Have Omnipollo send you something different. No server or bartender in their right mind is going to deal with a product like that. You want your shift to go as smooth and worry free as possible. Why self sabotage your business like that?
     
  36. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    can't say that I'm surprised to hear that
     
    thesherrybomber likes this.
  37. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Saw that Omnipollo released a 5th anniversary beer for this beer. Called "anniversary coward", they changed up the packaging to a can with a picture of a fist smashing a swastika.
     
    StoutElk_92 likes this.
  38. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (312) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    As a person of Jewish ethnicity I am highly offended.
     
  39. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,485) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    you should let them know
     
  40. Longhorn08

    Longhorn08 Aspirant (253) Feb 4, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Based on our conversation, you should have known .
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.