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Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by queens1130, Dec 6, 2012.
At least BT comes in 750ml (I think) and ABV is much higher. BA Raspy is 500ml and 12% ABV.
"Just because they are barrel-aged" means: tying up space for much longer than a non-aged beer, dumping any barrels that are infected, dumping any barrels that just don't taste good, learning the difficult art of blending. I think you do a significant disservice to brewers when you use the word "just" there.
Pass Pass Pass. The price is too damn high.
Sounds like a hit a touchy subject with someone. I was referring to the fact that Old Rasputin and Black Chocolate Stout are probably 2 of the cheapest RISs around while their barrel aged versions are expensive even for being barrel aged. I could get a 4 pack of Bourbon County Stout for about the same price as a 500mL bottle of BA Old Rasputin. Of course every brewery's costs are different, its just amazing that the base beer can be produced for such an affordable price, while BA version is so expensive.
True -- now if Goose Island, located in a high-real-estate area like Chicago, can afford to release BCBS at $5 per 12 bottle, then what is North Coast's excuse for having over double the cost per ounce?
Yeah, there's overhead... But there's also greed.
EDIT: beaten while typing that up...
ok, without spending too much time on dr. levi's theories of supply and demand (seriously, it is a GOOD THING when good beer is on the shelves year-round), can i ask a simple question?
how do you two, as known eclipse shills, rationalize complaints about $22 / 16.9 oz ($1.30 / oz) being "too high" and turn a blind eye to eclipses that are $30 / 22 oz ($1.36 / oz)?
even worse is when i see someone complain about black tuesday being "way too expensive" or a "gouge" ($1.18 / oz) and, in the same thread, gush breathlessly over eclipse.
can any of you address the inconsistency in your thinking?
^ No. After some unpleasantness following my comments about the past couple of years of Eclipses, I am declining to review or post about them going forward. Troll elsewhere.
Let's not assume here. I never pay 30$ for Eclipse beers. I always stock up on Futures for around 21$ a bottle. Still cheaper than a 500 ml bottle of BA Rasputin. I think 30$ for Eclipse is too damn high too, but a cheaper option exists with futures.
Black Tuesday is one of the only few bottles I will drop $30 for in a heartbeat.
Boo this man. . . and I'm not saying "boo-urns".
For my two cents, oversimplified style: $20/500ml BA Old Rasputin sucks, $9/4 (12oz) Old Rasputin rules.
I bought two, one to share with a friend and the other to cellar. We drank one a couple weeks ago. It's a great example of the style. It changes quite a bit as it warms to room temp. I liked it best around 65-68 (guessing), seemed to have the most complexity at that temp (didn't care for it at about 42-48). Not my favorite, but I would have no problem dropping another $20 on a bottle.
BA Old Raspy is nowhere near as good as a finished product as Eclipse or BT. Futures and RS work out to where BA Old Raspy is the most expensive for my situation.
None of the other barrel aged beers are anywhere near being significantly worse than their base version as well (well I've never had the BT base, but Totality is good, and gets better when put in barrels, I can't say the same of Old Rasputin).
One man's opinion: good beer, but not great. If you've ticked one vintage of this, it's certainly not worth the price tag when there are numerous other BA imperial stouts available that are a. better and b. cheaper per ounce.
I'm going to say this beer is overrated. Even if it was $15 a bottle I don't think I would buy it again. I've sampled the X, XII, and XIV in the past few months and wasn't really impressed by any of them. Furthermore the older vintages didn't seem to be whole lot different with age.
This thread makes me thirsty.
By the way, a drop fell off the rim of the bottle and I licked it off the floor. It was like 6 cents after all.
If you can't afford to lose it; you can't afford to have it.
IF you dont like Eclipse thats fine, but dont continue to Troll around and bash it to no end. Get over yourself.
And I definitely agree with Abecall98, most who buy Eclipse buy through the futures program, so technically at $21 (0.95/per ounce) its definitely a better buy, and beer. I still enjoy a BA Old Rasputin every now and then, but $21 for 16.9oz is a tough buy.
you guys really need to stop overusing "troll." i challenged you on a seeming double standard. i didn't even say anything negative, just talked about price.
i think the fact that none of you 3, who i'd consider to be big proponents of eclipse, will stand up for the shelf pricing says something.
Just picked up a couple bottles of this in Ohio. Found this and Black Ops so not a terribly bad day...
I'll concede point one, I don't think wanting to engage in a discussion in is trolling, and I wish we had greater ability on this website to engage in constructive disagreements without someone hitting the report button over nothing but different politics.
But I think I laid out succinctly why it was not hypocrisy to say ''paying ~ 'x' amount'' hurts for a beer you don't like, but hurts less for a beer you do like. The fact that non BA old rasputin is better and cheaper than its BA counterpart is just icing on the cake.
Point 2? I've never bought Eclipse (nor seen) on a shelf. I see BA Old Rasputin year round on multiple shelves in multiple cities. If you like it, its probably worth it. If you don't, its not.
What specifically do you mean by "stand up for" the shelf pricing? I don't see the logic of saying its hypocritical to like one beer at a price, and not like another at a similar price.
Its not hypocritical for someone to pay the similar $$$ for a Toyota Tacoma, but not like a Ford F150 and find it to be overpriced. Same with Coke/Pepsi.
Having a dislike or appreciation for something isn't called hypocrisy, its called a preference.
Black Tuesday > Eclipse > BA Old Rasputin = preference
yes, that makes perfect sense, which is why i didn't include you in the 3 i was referring to.
absolutely. however, i've seen arbitrator and abecall98 make references to beers being "too expensive" in the past, and their posts in this thread are predicated on price alone (go back up and see). arbitrary even compared old rasputin xv to bcbs, which is a tacit endorsement of its flavor. so they didn't criticize the taste or express a preference; they simply attacked the cost, and i used the opportunity to try and point out a discrepancy in their thinking.
to come back and expound by saying, "well, i like eclipse more, so i'll pay more" is fine; i can accept that, though i'd obviously disagree that eclipse is a quality barrel-aged stout.
i'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. eclipse is well-known to be distributed.
misuse of "troll" aside, if you attract trouble left and right, even from breweries you support, maybe the problem is you?
I know Eclipse is distributed, I was just making the case that Eclipse sells at roughly the same price point as BA Rasputin, but Eclipse sells out quickly, while BA Rasputin collects dust. Supply/demand is quite different at the same price.
I think you're giving Arbitrator shit for the same reason you and many of us go anonymous . . . you're both opinionated, tend to rate beers lower than the average BA, and would rather spend your time drinking beers and having other social interactions as opposed to getting shit from fanboys/brewers about what you post on the internet.
ah, gotcha. i've read about several stores where last year's eclipses are still on shelves, and prices have gone up this year, so i doubt they'll sell any faster. it's all anecdotal, but i suspect that, on average, many ba's find both lines to be equally 'overpriced.'
i don't rate beers, but otherwise spot on: yes, i'm opinionated, and i like to stir the pot, and i like to remain anonymous for that reason. i've found you can't really challenge people if you're too forward with your identity - probably why there was such a years-long frenzy to "figure out who levitation is," hoping it would get me to be stop being so brash.
You know, I dropped well over 20 bucks on a 500ml (again) and I think I have finally learned my lesson once and for all. BA Rasputin is a very solid beer, that regrettably is not nearly solid enough to charge its exorbitant price tag. Its simply not worth it...
I would rather buy any other BA imperial stout when i compare the price.
A years-long frenzy? Sounds pretty epic.
That and maybe a bit of inflated sense of self? Its the internet homies, pretty easy to be brash. Identifying yourself with a name and face and then saying your thang? Maybe a tad brash, otherwise, meh.
I was being unclear, but if you really want to get into it....
The gravity of BCBS (15%) is higher than BA Old Rasputin (12%), suggesting a much higher ingredient cost or fermentation time (correct me if I'm wrong). Chicago is also, on a square-foot basis, more expensive than Fort Bragg, so the space devoted to barrel-aging costs more for GI than for North Coast.
In other words, flavor being equal, BCBS should cost MORE than Old Rasputin XV, but it's the opposite -- by quite a large margin. Factor in flavor (I think my score for past vintages of BCBS was lower, but I thought the '11 and '12 are phenomenal, while BA Old Rasputin has never been that great), and the gap becomes even wider.
So no, I am not tacitly endorsing BA Old Rasputin at all, and I left flavor out as an unnecessary variable.
Again, I'm leaving Eclipse out of this; it's caused some BA drama and I'm tired of it.
One of the directors at my company connected me to my screen name; I take my career very seriously, so that wasn't a good day for me. And like you said, I don't enjoy having people come up to me and complain about x review or y post... Fuck off, that's annoying.
Sadly, my tasting group is a bunch of chatty cathies; nickd717 and westcoastbeerlvr have been obsessed with Levitation since early 2010, possibly 2009. Our tastings would pretty much be:
- Drink a beer
- Say what scores we'll give it
- I comment that largadeer overgrades; largadeer comments that I'm a godless lowgrader
- Insults are exchanged
- Drink another beer
- Discuss Levitation
- westcoastbeerlvr suggests we go to Toronado
- Everyone laughs, drinks more beer
- westcoastbeerlvr suggests we drive to Alpine
- Everyone laughs, drinks more beer
- A handful of us wind up at Toronado
Garrett Oliver has said that Black OPS is not simply barrel aged Black Chocolate Stout. Apparently the base beers are different.I agree that Black OPS is over priced at $25.00/750ml, though.
Black Op's is not just aged in Burbon barrels(Woolford Reserve btw).After it is aged it's refermented in the bottle with Champage yeast. It's my favorite BBAB but expensive. I was lucky and got 3 bottles for $17.99 this year, a good price. I saw it for$24.99 and passed on it at another store.
re: BA old rasputin,
you can get a lot of equal or better stuff for the price nowadays, but i love it. love BA old stock even more.
many many beers (almost all homebrew) is refermented in the bottle (ie carbonated via bottle conditioning).
as for champagne yeast, it sounds fancy, but it's just a clean fermenting yeast that works for high gravity beer. absolutely does not improve the taste or anything like that.
Saw a few bottles when I stopped by the Total Wine in Tampa. I think it was $29.99 or something like that, and well, I figured out it wasn't a 750ml and simply just couldn't justify it. Went with a couple bottles of Oak Aged Yeti and a 4-banger of DFH Burton Baton instead. Very pleased with them.
Garrett Oliver has commented (possibly on the old BA forums) that Black OPS was a completely different beer from BCS. Different mash bill, etc...
I'm aware it's finished with champagne yeast, but I don't think that's all that sets it apart. Either way, $25.00 is too much for a bottle. $18-20 is the top of the market for that beer IMO.
my problem with black OPS, ironically, is that it comes across as overcarbed... probably from the champagne yeast. great flavor though. brooklyn is great in general.
but... that's what i said: "i've found you can't really challenge people if you're too forward with your identity."
so ya, it's easy to be brash because i'm anonymous. look how many people, when they believed i was a woman, immediately started attacking that. i've received numerous physical threats and a couple of death threats on ba.
now, i internet pretty hard and don't afraid of anything, but some people are a little crazy. and there are two immutable rules about crazy: 1) you don't stick your dick in it, and 2) you don't tell it where you live. i don't take beer seriously enough to be a hero.
you think i could have called out half the people i have if they knew which events i was attending and what i looked like? even markintihar, who is nice as all hell, got threatened.
they're not the only ones....
BCS>Black Ops by a long shot IMO, particularly when BCS is aged.
I can't justify spending $19.99 on a bottle especially since I just spent a fair amount on BCBS. And since I'm also fairly new to the craft beer scene I figure it won't hurt to take my time anyways. But it does sound delicious.
If your new to this than get ready to see 20$ price tags pretty often for more rare beers. Not to say that there isnt world class beer for a good price.
I paid 27$ each for my couple of bottles of this one. 12th Anniversary was way better.
I feel like I have a good idea of what stuff costs...like I said I bought a few 4 packs of BCBS and cash isn't endless so it's kind of pick and choose...my local store probably had 20 bottles so maybe if it hangs around for a few weeks I'll pick a bottle up!