BBC: "US craft beer: How it inspired British brewers"

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by rob133, Apr 12, 2013.

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  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,100) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry

    True. And often it is those Europeans who hold themselves up as "cultured" that are completely ignorant about U.S. culture: beer, food, or otherwise. It always amazed me to encounter such people (my sister-in-law being one example).

    And to a degree, I can understand the 'craft' beer fan's aversion to the what for decades passed as the traditional macro beer culture in the U.S.; however -- though you are right that I should not be -- I continue to be amazed by the seeming dismissal of 1000s of years of other beer cultures by some of the 'advocates' on this site.
     
  2. jdklks

    jdklks Initiate (0) Aug 9, 2007 Maryland

    Unfortunately, though it is true connoisseurs in Europe are well aware of the craft beer scene in the United States, the average bar-goer is still under the impression that we only serve up BMC. I have been all over through western Europe and the only credit the US ever gets comes from specialty stores/bars owned and run by BAs and members of that other site. Hopefully articles like this will continue to educate.
     
  3. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,603) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Trader

    When, or if, I make such a trip I believe I will drink nothing but local recommendations enjoyed as they do locally.

    And against your point of prejudice against subtle/small beers. Perhaps my group of friends, about 60 beer drinkers or so, are not the average you speak of, but every one of us loves a good, subtle, German beer brewed right. Learning to brew those styles is on the list for every one of us. Heck, even more telling against your point, my friends's best beer is his Kolsch, and he was tapped to be brewmaster at the soon to open brewpub Mill Street Brewing partly as a result of the investors tasting it.
     
  4. Crusader

    Crusader Aspirant (288) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden

    This is what I like about Europe, that it hasn't all become one giant supermarket selling the same brands. I'll happily accept provincialism as long as we can avoid to wage war against another. As a foreigner you might not have the same points of reference (and I count myself as a foreigner when it comes to any non-Swedish country in Europe) but that's what makes it great. Different people being able to remain different, without waging war against another because of those differences. That would be my preferred future vision for Europe.
     
  5. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Its not an ugly comment, just half true. Britain would have won WW1 just fine without us.

    Of course, you would probably find it an ugly comment if I called the UK a terrorist nation for burning down the White House during the War of 1812. Others might appreciate the humor in it.
     
  6. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    In part that is because there mostly isnt 1000s of years. If drinking IPA and stout is anti-cultural, as you implied earlier, then whatever they were drinking in Germany before Gabriel Sedlmayr is too.

    German/Czech pale lager based beer culture is maybe 170 years old?
     
  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,100) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry

    Man, you and your inferences.... I said 1000s of year of beer culture(s), not one more-or-less recent style that is attributed specifically to Munich brewing. But now that you mention it, beers in the vein of Franconian Kellerbier/Ungespundet/Zoigl/Zwickelbier and Rauchbier -- in other words the 1000s of idiosyncratic and individualistic beers that are available to anyone, anytime, if they bother to make the slightest effort to learn about them -- have been around in similar form for much longer than 170 years.

    EDIT: PLEASE watch this video, which I have posted elsewhere, to (hopefully) finally understand what I'm talking about. In addition to being edifying, it's actually pretty cool, too. Assuming, that is, that you actually give a shit about such things.

     
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  8. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    You need to read what I wrote more carefully. I said "most" on purpose to exempt those that have been around much longer than lager.

    But weighed by volume, they are tiny, so my MOST is exactly correct.

    Edit: Btw, one of my future plans is to spend a week or so drinking nothing about zoigl in the palatinate (upper or lower, I cant keep them straight). Google says upper.
     
  9. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,100) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry

    So because most areas no longer drink the same beers as they did 1000s of years ago, it follows that beer culture is dead there? Interesting. Also, I never said drinking an IPA in Germany/Czech Republic is "anti-cultural," rather that drinking them to the exclusion (sound familiar?) of the local beers is limiting and ignores traditional beer culture. Feel free to pick your fights with the locals if/when you finally make it over there to the Oberpfalz (Upper Palatinate). I'm sure letting them in on the knowledge that theirs is not a 1000-year beer culture will greatly enhance your -- and their -- experience.
     
  10. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Dead? I didnt say that. Speaking of inferences.

    My view would be that IPAs and etc are part of the beer culture, its just changing style. From what I can tell, local Germany beer culture has always been limited to a few styles anyway and they change every few decades or so (with some lasting longer than others). IIRC, Hefeweizen was all but dead mid 20th century, and until recently Berliner Weisse was mostly dead. My understanding is that in most local places you can find 2-3 beer choices. If IPA is becoming 1 of the 3, I dont see how that changes anything about the culture.

    As Im not the one who thinks style of beer defines culture in any way, I wouldnt say that. You are the one who thinks it matters WHAT is being consumed.
     
  11. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,100) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry

    Not just me, but millions of others in the places you plan to visit. And if you think I'm staunch in my defense of some of these things, just wait until you get there. Anyway, did you bother to watch the video? It explains all the traditions of taxation and "Bottichbier" that helped create the culture where nearly every single household had brewing rights and produced what you're going to be consuming if you go to a Zoiglstube or one of these small village breweries -- whether you (or I) like it or not. Of course, you're free to bring some more U.S. 'craft' beer culture with you in the form of your 2 oz tasting glass or tulip...not sure it'll go over so well though.
     
  12. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    I see your point but it doesn't have to be as homogeneous as we might first fear. I can think of a newish Scottish brewery which is really only brewing from largely pre 20th century recipes while another not 5 miles from my house once open will produce 60/, 70/, 80/ and 90/ as their principle beers. As for Germany, think of all the old beer recipes which are just begging to be brewed again. Brewers can be innovative and respectful of their culture's brewing past while still being part of 'the whole new scene'. And they should be.
     
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  13. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,100) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry

    Totally agree. A couple of good examples in Franconia are Rittmayer and Mahr's. They keep the traditional beers -- served in the traditional way, by Bayerischer Anstich -- intact at the tavern/beer garden, while creating niche beers to appeal to other demographics that have been abandoning beer recently. I have no real problem with this, and doubt it will lead to any erosion of tradition. What I have a problem with is those who don't understand -- or simply lack the curiosity or ability to appreciate -- the (astonishing range) of traditional beers that these cultures have to offer and make outrageous claims about "reinvigorating" German/UK/Czech brewing by introducing IPAs and (BA) stouts. As for those few who might make the trip and stick exclusively to such styles as to not be "bored," they are as guilty of willed ignorance as someone who sticks only to the foods (and restaurants) they are familiar with on a European trip.
     
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  14. SoulFroosh

    SoulFroosh Initiate (0) Apr 19, 2014 Maine

    I have to say, as an Englishman turned USA resident; America showed me what beer is supposed to be.
    Everything to do with beer in the UK was despicable to me. I despised the entire culture. The horrible cans of Carling, the loutish drinking culture. Drinking cans of yeasty piss to get pissed.

    Then I came here and tasted my first IPA and found a beer culture orientated towards taste and tradition.
    I'm sat here right now drinking a Hop Nosh, savoring the hop aroma and taste. The UK didn't show me that. I owe it all to the craft scene here in the USA.

    Cheers, to the USA and great beer.
     
  15. K-jack211

    K-jack211 Initiate (117) Jun 22, 2014 Michigan

    The irony is that the beers Europeans traditionally consider to be "American" pisswater are now primarily brewed by Belgians (AB InBev), South Africans (SAB Miller), and Canadians (Molson Coors).
     
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  16. ChurchofPayton

    ChurchofPayton Initiate (0) Oct 16, 2014 Massachusetts

    I visited London last March and one of my favorite spots was the Euston Tap, a tiny little beer bar in front of Euston Station. A good majority of their gravity pour beers were listed as "American Style IPA's", and a good majority of their regular draft beers were imports from here. I remember seeing stuff from Sierra Nevada, Stone, and Rogue.
     
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  17. chipawayboy

    chipawayboy Devotee (435) Oct 26, 2007 Massachusetts
    Trader

    As a fan of real/cask ale -- I love what's going on around the UK with new versions /varieties of cask from all the start ups --combining the classic natural conditioning and cellar serving temp w/amped up qtys of super flavorful and aromatic hops. My buddy is in Edinburgh this week and just sent me this photo from a new town pub called the Stockbridge tap -- the idea of a 4.1 Galaxy dry hopped pale is making my mouth water at 945 on the east coast!! I'm hoping CAMRA can even eventually see the benefits of joining forces w the force carbonated craft brew scene -- that would be a potent force to push good beer to a new level in the UK.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. chipawayboy

    chipawayboy Devotee (435) Oct 26, 2007 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Another photo from the Stockbridge Tap that just arrived on my phone. Watering mouth turned to foaming at the mouth for this awesome sounding cask/American craft hybrid!!!!
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,156) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    There is a spirited on-going discussion concerning “session” beers and flavor (or lack of flavor) of lower ABV beers here: http://www.beeradvocate.com/communi...e-session-beer-trend-makes-zero-sense.226670/

    Maybe you would like to share your thoughts there?

    Cheers!
     
  20. Hoppsbabo

    Hoppsbabo Champion (879) Jan 29, 2012 United Kingdom (England)
    Trader

    Loutish drinking culture is unique to the UK? :astonished:

    That's understandable as there is only a light smattering of traditional pubs and brewers in the UK. :astonished::astonished:
     
  21. Hanglow

    Hanglow Crusader (791) Feb 18, 2012 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    He seems to be talking about "lad" culture, which is chezza and big dave getting smashed out of their tits on carling then vomiting in his front garden at 3am after chowing down ahmed's finest kebab. It's a bit different from proper pub culture, but all too prevalent sadly. That said it looks like it's on the wane
     
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  22. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Yep. The 'Let's get arseholed!' drinking culture is starting to wane. Likely down to austerity economics and the growing influence of social media. Still not a good idea for a sober person to take a train out of Edinburgh on a Friday or Saturday night though.
     
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  23. cervezango

    cervezango Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2011 Wisconsin

    I lived in Reading England for a year from age 18-19 . I frequented small pubs which often had tasty local brew in casks . I miss British beer especially the super hoppy bitters with almost no carbonation. I went to a CAMRA beer festival an I didn't know the policies of the organization at the time, but I can say the festival they put on had a ton awesome and delicious ales. I think UK has a great beer tradition , and we are making our own great one now. British beer will always have a special place in my heart.
    public houses! London Porters! and ESBs FTW!
     
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  24. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,100) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry

    I was as the Scottish Real Ale Festival with a couple of buddies back in the 90s. As it was winding up for the night, we took our commemorative pint glasses with us and hailed a cab. When we started to get in with our glasses in hand, the cab driver immediately protested and ended up kicking us out. We tried to explain to him that we had just been having a few pints at the festival, but he was having none of it. Guess he, too, had had enough of that type of "culture!"

    EDIT: FWIW, I had around 7-8 pints of dark mild that evening and was feeling only slightly buzzed. Great stuff...seemed to get better and better the more of it I drank. :wink:
     
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  25. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Savant (920) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Drunks are drunks it doesn't matter which beer "culture" they come from.
     
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  26. Hanglow

    Hanglow Crusader (791) Feb 18, 2012 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Oh I don't know. How about the high functioning alcoholic compare to a bum in the street? Or the relentless ticker compared to the sodden mess propping up the bar?

    Drunks inhabit a wide church. And are people who get drunk regularly (like students or teenagers) as bad as some middle manager who keeps a bottle of johnny walker in his desk?

    Plenty of drunk arseholes around, I'm sure we've all been there. I know I have.


    I'm further derailing the thread, again.

    In answer to the implied question of the OP, yes it is certain that American breweries have influenced british brewers. There are loads of hop forward and adjunct (but good) laden beers here now
     
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  27. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    On behalf of this island's true beer lovers I humbly thank the ol' US of A for helping to inspire and re-ignite the present beer scene in Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Our friends in the Republic of Ireland too. There has never been a more exciting time in living memory to drink beer in the British Isles.
     
  28. Hoppsbabo

    Hoppsbabo Champion (879) Jan 29, 2012 United Kingdom (England)
    Trader

    Indeed. If it wasn't for a hoppy transatlantic tasting ale I had ten years ago I'd probably still be drinking Kronenbourg and Strongbow.
     
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  29. Mark

    Mark Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2001 California

    I'll mention something far worse and I have sadly witnessed it far too many times. What I'm talking about is young Brits drinking Bud or Corona while they sit in a pub offering excellent cask ale. I've never understood it!
     
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  30. Hoppsbabo

    Hoppsbabo Champion (879) Jan 29, 2012 United Kingdom (England)
    Trader

    Tell me about. But if it makes any difference I've converted two people in the space of a month.
     
  31. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Savant (920) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Maybe they enjoy drinking Bud or Corona.
     
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  32. Mark

    Mark Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2001 California

    You got that right! Nothing better than cask ale in a British pub.
     
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  33. Mark

    Mark Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2001 California

    You got that right! Nothing better than cask ale in a British pub.
    As I'm sure you do.
     
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  34. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Savant (920) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    wrong
     
  35. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,156) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    “I've never understood it!”

    Maybe I can help here?

    The majority of beer drinkers worldwide prefer beers that are light in color and light tasting. That is just the way it is.

    The number 1 selling beer in the US is Bud Light.

    The number 1 selling beer in Great Britain is Carling Lager.

    The number 1 selling beer in Belgium is Jupiler and number 2 is Stella Artois; they are both light colored and light tasting lagers.

    And on and on.

    Cheers!
     
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