Beer Reviews that annoy you

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by HopHunter19, Jun 1, 2016.

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  1. elucas730

    elucas730 Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2010 New York

    What my initial tongue-in-cheek response is alluding to is that I don't understand why anyone would let a beer review, of all things, "annoy" them. Life is too short to let such trivialities get to you and effect your mood.

    But maybe that's just me, because I also cannot fathom a situation where I would actually watch a video of someone reviewing a beer. I don't understand why anyone would want to watch another person drinking a beer. What a waste of time.
     
  2. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    The rating someone gives for "Overall" is not supposed to be an individual average for the previous four ratings the beer has been given, rather it is meant to provide for the opportunity to evaluate things about the beer other than look, aroma, flavor, and feel. For example, how enjoyable was the experience with the beer. For a bit more detail you can look here:
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/how-to-review-a-beer.241156/
     
    Shroud0fdoom, champ103 and utopiajane like this.
  3. utopiajane

    utopiajane Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2013 New York

    I am sorry but I just don't see the appeal of some things. What is the point of excessively high gravity and how do you do that well in the actual malt liquor beer like keystone ice? :confused:
     
  4. elucas730

    elucas730 Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2010 New York

    Rating to style should only be considered for actual beer judging competitions. It cannot be applied to online beer rating systems, for a number of reasons.

    First, there is an implied assumption that an individual be intimately knowledgeable about a number of beers within a given style before they can begin reviewing or rating. I've never had a malt liquor in my life. I assume they all taste like hot garbage. If I have this Steel Reserve and it tastes like hot garbage, even if it's the best hot garbage out there I'm not going to give it the same rating as Heady Topper. And I'm certainly not going to drink 50 other hot garbages just so I can accurately rank the best hot garbage (a 5) and the worst hot garbage (a 1).

    Second, people are trying to make the argument that others use these rating systems to make purchasing decisions. The vast majority do not want to know what is the best beer within a style when purchasing, then want to know which is "best". If someone sits down at a bar, I wouldn't want them to see a 5.0 for Steel Reserve (assuming it is the "best" malt liquor out there) and a 4.0 for Sump (the 80th ranked imperial stout). Steel Reserve must be better than Sump because it is the best of its style while Sump is 80th. That's not how it should work.
     
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  5. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    An individual not paying some attention to style characteristics when rating carries with it the implicit assumptions that the rater is familiar with all possible beers and that rater has the national standard palate which holds for all people, thereby leading to the conclusion that the person who prefers Sump to Steel Reserve (or vice versa) is/should be the ultimate arbiter of taste for all.

    Given the nature of how ratings are conducted on this site someone looking for purchasing guidance should be looking only within a particular style since there are multiple inherent biases reflected in the top 250 list. Some biases exist to some degree within a style list as well but can not be eliminated in a consumer oriented ratings process.
     
    #125 drtth, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  6. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,989) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    What you're not getting is that every different type of beer will serve a different purpose and/or desire; so it's futile to even begin to compare Sump to Steel Reserve. They do different things, which is why it's best to only compare apples to apples. You sure as hell may have a preference for one or the other, but that's as far as it goes. Other people will have different preferences.
     
  7. elucas730

    elucas730 Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2010 New York

    Wrong, it doesn't. It carries the implicit assumption that a rater is familiar with other beers, not all possible beers. I think we can all agree that a person has to have a frame of reference in order to rate/grade/judge beer. You can't take a person who has never had a beer, hand him a beer, and expect him to be able to review or rate it. He has no frame of reference. It is reasonable to expect someone who has had various beers in his life to be able to try a new beer and rate it within his frame of reference, which is all the other beers he's had. It is not reasonable, IMO, to require a person to have intimate knowledge of each of the 100+ styles of beers before they can rate a beer of that style.

    What you're not getting is that the only place where style is important is competitions. Everywhere else, as evidenced by the ratings on here and every other online beer rating system, is concerned with ratings only within the category of "beer". That is why the #1 AAL is ranked below the 100th+ Imperial Stout. That is why the Bros rate 3 AALs at 90+ and 25 below 60 while they rate 45 Imperial Stouts 90+ and Zero below 60. The frame of reference that people use when rating is the beer universe, not style.
     
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  8. Phoodcritic

    Phoodcritic Crusader (773) Jul 3, 2014 Michigan

    I disagree. Overall does not mean "other". What is there to evaluate other than look, aroma, flavor, and feel? The referenced guidelines simply say, "Describe your overall impression of the beer." Given that it accounts for 20% of the weighted score, it's an important, albeit subjective, rating that should be consistent with the other ratings, especially taste. Otherwise, what in fact would we be rating? The attractiveness of the environment, our mood at that moment, the cleanliness of the glassware, or what? It wouldn't be the beer itself.
     
  9. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Did you take the time to read through the document linked to? If you've a disagreement you really want to take it up with the folks who run the site and write the guidelines.
     
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  10. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,989) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    I'm talking about context more than style, but even so it's still recommended that reviews are done with style in mind. So, as is the way of things, what people are doing and what they are supposed to be doing are two different things :wink:.
     
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  11. Phoodcritic

    Phoodcritic Crusader (773) Jul 3, 2014 Michigan

    Yes, I did, and I'm pasting the entire section here:
    Overall = 20%
    Describe your overall impression of the beer.

    Examples:

    • How was the overall drinking experience?
    • What did you find pleasurable or objectionable about it?
    • Offer suggestions for improvement.
    Pro tips:
    • Be honest and constructive.
    You responded to a comment about the numeric value used for the "overall" rating. While one can describe in words how pleasurable the experience was, I don't understand why the overall numeric value would/should be inconsistent with the other scores.
     
  12. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Simply saying "wrong" doesn't make it so.

    Yes a person needs to develop a frame of reference. And this site does not require that be done before doing ratings are allowed but it does assume that those staying around long enough to do so will develop that frame of reference. So it is quite possible that a person will rate based on their very first beer, or rate based only on their experience with IPAs, etc. In all cases the ratings would be flawed by not being familiar with other styles and other beers. And even those who have tried 100+ styles will exhibit biases. As long as the site allows untrained folks to rate beers that will not change. The owners of the site request that we keep style in mind.

    We simply have to figure out ways to live with the flaws. Comparing an IPA and a Kolsch is unfair to both the beers and the consumers looking for guidance. There are many people in the world who prefer IPAs, there are many people in the world who prefer Kolsch.
     
  13. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    It could be inconsistent with the calculated score simply because the beer exhibits flavors that are completely within/true to style and so gets a higher score on flavors, but the rater personally does not particularly enjoy the beer and flavor profile so their overall impression can be less favorable.
     
  14. elucas730

    elucas730 Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2010 New York

    I think in the end, this site allows for both. The overall ratings allow you to compare across styles, but you can also filter on a style and see the rankings within a style. But certainly some styles are "better" than others, hence The Bros rate several Imperial Stouts as 100, but do not rank a single (even the "best") AAL, malt liquor, light lager, etc, anywhere near 100.
     
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  15. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,803) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Society Trader

    Sometimes the taste doesn't rise to the level of the aroma, or the flavor is good but texture is a let down. My overall rating is just that, overall. It's not just the sum of aroma, texture and taste, rather how well those components come together.
     
  16. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Mostly agree.

    Indeed the site allows for both. But what "better" means when comparing across styles is "Some folks liked it better than some other beer they may never have even tried." There is a big difference between something being objectively better and lots of untutored raters with limited and different frameworks personally feeling something is better. So comparing numerical values across styles can be very misleading, if only because a 4.0 doesn't mean the same thing in each style, especially when the methodologies and controls required to insure objectivity and control rater bias are simply not in place to allow us to say "style A is better than style B." A good translation of "better" in this case is "more popular" with the subset of people who chose to use this site and who chose to rate beers at all.
     
  17. Ranbot

    Ranbot Defender (668) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania

    Agreed that the site allows us to take what we want from the ratings. Regarding the assertion some styles are "better" I think @dbrauneis covered that succinctly already.
    I would be careful using the Bros to prove your point here. They certainly know a lot about beer, but they are people like the rest of us prone to biases for or against certain styles or breweries. The Bros. also have a particularly interesting potential bias most of us do not have: a potential financial stake in what they say on this site. That said, I think they navigate these potential bias pitfalls very well without appearing to sacrifice honesty.
     
  18. manfromanotherplace

    manfromanotherplace Initiate (0) May 19, 2015 New York

    Jesus.....buzz Killington strikes again....do me a favour, don't reply to my posts anymore, you are much more knowledgeable about beer and the world in general than my tiny brain!thanks!
     
  19. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Well, when someone asks a question or it appears they might not know or understand something, someone is likely to try and help them out, it's in the nature of this site. Thanks for letting me know you are not interested in learning more.

    Remember your mind is only as tiny as you make it.

    No more replies then.
     
    #139 drtth, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  20. mudbug

    mudbug Defender (622) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon

    Agree, with just one modifier. It's pretty evident by the number of reviews for some styles that a majority of reviewers here only bother to rate beers they enjoy. This in itself causes a numerical shift downward for "less popular" styles. My take on it is to ignore the top 250 and concentrate only on the top beers within the style, of course this takes a lot more clicking but I think a good argument could be made for a top beers list that used the top five in every style, it would eliminate the style bias and be useful to consumers.
     
    rgordon likes this.
  21. manfromanotherplace

    manfromanotherplace Initiate (0) May 19, 2015 New York

    Yes sir, thank you sir, been an honour to be educated by you, like i hadn't read what you so kindly posted for me already.....i think you should remember, when you come on here lecturing people just because you have a rating of 1000+, you sound like a fucking turd.
    As you were....
     
  22. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    So maybe this isn't exactly what OP is looking for, but honestly it annoys me when people put too much effort (doesn't take much) into writing a clever/funny review. Over-the-Top, 'look how many humorous descriptors I can come up with', all that crap. Cut it out. I like a funny review as much as the next guy but tone that shit down, you're not special.
     
  23. cambabeer

    cambabeer Meyvn (1,326) Dec 29, 2010 New York
    Fest Crew Society Trader

    Hahahahaha, I've never watched Beer Geek Nation reviews... just took a look cuz I had to see the punchable face. Wow, he's annoying, would punch.
     
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  24. rgordon

    rgordon Meyvn (1,271) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Well, thanks for your opinion.
     
  25. manfromanotherplace

    manfromanotherplace Initiate (0) May 19, 2015 New York

    Anytime! : )
     
  26. MattSharpless

    MattSharpless Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2012 Virginia

    I just have to add a plus-one to this! I check out his channel every once and a while - just to see another what someone else thinks about a beer that I (usually) love. But, I think it's safe to say that he has turned completely into someone who no longer appreciates the liquid that's in front of him. I think just about everyone on here is plenty aware of the plethora of beers, rare and coveted, that he has had the opportunity to try, and I think that privilege has turned him into a spoiled brat.

    I just watched his review of this year's Beer Camp pack from Sierra Nevada et al. He begins with an introduction that would lead you to believe that he just got in a huge fight with his wife immediately prior to filming, and continues to narrate the entirety of the video like a spoiled rich kid whose parents bought him the wrong color Mercedes for their 16th birthday - sulking the whole time because the stout isn't the biggest, high ABV, barrel aged imperial stout on the planet, and the IPA isn't the dankest, hoppiest, tropical fruitiest, highly coveted IPA from the Northeast. I know that there have been a lot of mixed reviews of the Beer Camp pack, as well as Sierra Nevada's distribution issues. Was it the best twelve-pack of beer we have ever seen? No. But, after him slamming SN's efforts last year, then returning to do it again this year, solidifies his behavior as antagonistic and unnecessarily inflammatory. Don't like Sierra Nevada or their beer? Don't drink it. Are you so self-righteous that you think your one whiny little YouTube video is going to be the one element that changes everything for Sierra Nevada who you have "written off"?

    We know that, unless the beer you are drinking is a 13% ABV imperial stout aged in barrels owned by Jesus himself, or a double IPA from a super secret brewery in the Northeast that no one has ever heard of yet, he has no interest in drinking them, but this apathetic attitude regarding anything that's not the new best beer he's ever had is (in my opinion) counterproductive to the efforts of everyone involved in the craft beer community.
     
    Gemini6 likes this.
  27. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (6,263) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

    I have never seen any of this guys reviews, but after reading your post I went and watched the SN Beer Camp review. He acted liked he was being tortured having to drink them. What a tool. Based on that video alone I would never watch another one of his videos. :rolling_eyes:
     
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  28. gopens44

    gopens44 Poo-Bah (2,423) Aug 9, 2010 Virginia
    Society Trader

    Sounds stupid probably but I get creeped out watching anyone eat or drink "for purpose". The stodgy, stiff, faux noble way that critical eaters and drinkers approach their subject is just plain creepy. My least favorite / best example was when that formerly thick dude with giant goofy glasses was on Master Chef. Dude would always take a bite and gaze at the ceiling while methodically chewing away. Just drove me nuts.
     
    KCUnited likes this.
  29. Ranbot

    Ranbot Defender (668) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I think these statements are ironic coming from someone with a name and avatar based on a character whose reason for existence was to provide clues, information, and inspire thought.
     
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  30. Whey2Hoppy

    Whey2Hoppy Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2016 New Jersey

    When people admit that the only reason they even bought the beer, knowing that they probably wouldn't like it, is "For the tick".

    Seriously, the whole "Pokemon Culture" that has taken hold of the Craft Beer Community gets ridiculous sometimes.
     
  31. mudbug

    mudbug Defender (622) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon

    You want to see a true ticker sweat, offer them some very good beer that you know they've ticked and one stupendously bad one that they haven't. You will see the definition of self loathing.
     
  32. Whey2Hoppy

    Whey2Hoppy Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2016 New Jersey

    I've actually done that before.

    http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/12224/103500/

    "Woah, I've never had a beer from Lithuania before"

    He doesn't take any beer from me anymore...
     
  33. CJNAPS

    CJNAPS Initiate (0) Nov 3, 2013 California

    Smelling the beer for an hour and a half would be my pet peeve too hahaha
     
  34. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Poo-Bah (8,316) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
    Society

    Annoyed by a review... hardly..

    did you make your own... then you have less to complain about.

    It's just like Jean-Luc Godard said...

    "The only way to criticize a movie is to make another movie."
     
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  35. LostDog13

    LostDog13 Initiate (0) May 23, 2016 South Carolina

    Can't really say any reviews annoy me, but I don't let reviews determine my thoughts or opinions on something. If they are done well, a review could direct towards a particular beer to try. I shelf hunt, so rare for a review to really have too much influence.

    Love untappd, but use it really for my own tracking. I don't rate beers the first time that I have them, since I don't think you can get a true grasp of anything the first time. There are far too many variables that affect the experience and influence a review.
     
  36. Dr_Bahmbay13

    Dr_Bahmbay13 Devotee (476) Mar 10, 2013 Michigan

    I'm annoyed at the people who replied , quality control , and infected beers should hold no value in a beer review. YOU NEED YOU FUCKING HEAD EXAMINED! LIKE YESTERDAY!
     
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  37. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (6,263) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

    Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! :wink:
     
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  38. Dr_Bahmbay13

    Dr_Bahmbay13 Devotee (476) Mar 10, 2013 Michigan

    *your,,,,,more annoyed I can't post a pic with the BA app.....it's 2016...get with it already!
     
  39. Dr_Bahmbay13

    Dr_Bahmbay13 Devotee (476) Mar 10, 2013 Michigan

    Sorry for the rant, I have heart burn from the bbq joint I rated 5 stars.
     
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  40. CapCollector16

    CapCollector16 Initiate (0) Jan 6, 2015 Ohio

    Untappd is usually rated pretty spot on IMO. Take a look at the top rated beers on there....pretty much the same top rated beers on here
     
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