Belgian IPA hopped like an NEIPA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by EvenMoreJesus, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I know that it's been a long time since these types of beers were popular, but my love of Houblon Chouffe and Urthel Hop It have made me want to give them a try again. I'm thinking about keeping it simple and making a tripel, but hopping it like an NEIPA. Something like this:

    For 5.5 gallons:

    14 lbs Pilsner Malt; Weyermann mashed at 148F until conversion is complete

    2 lbs White Table Sugar boiled with first runnings and reduced by half then added directly to fermenter

    Boil main beer for 1 hour for flavor concentration and protein coagulation

    Cool to 180F and add 6 oz. each of Amarillo, Citra, and Mosaic and 2 oz. of Centennial

    Cool and pitch WLP530 - Abbey Ale

    Ferment at ambient until krausen falls then add first DH of 1 oz. each of Amarillo, Citra, and Mosaic.

    Ferment for another two days then add second DH of the same hops in the same amounts.

    Package with 3 volumes of CO2

    Original Gravity 1.079
    Terminal Gravity 1.010
    Color 5.22 °SRM
    Bitterness 0.0 IBU (obviously not accurate)
    Alcohol (%volume) 9.1 %


    My questions for you all are: Have you ever done something similar? What do you think of the yeast strain? The grist? Hops?

    Any input is welcomed. BTW, I checked the recipes section quickly and didn't find anything, but I certainly didn't do an exhaustive search, so if anyone can find a link to a similar topic, please post it.
     
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  2. TheHumanTorch

    TheHumanTorch Initiate (161) Jul 19, 2013 Connecticut

    I'm on my third variation of what is essentially the same style. I use a 100% pils base, but no sugar. No need to complicate with specialty malts. Yeast is the wyeast version of the same thing and plays wonderfully off fruity hops. I do 5-10 min additions instead of whirlpool, but I'm sure whirlpool will work great.

    I have some bottles and some kegs of each. Kegs at 2.4 vol, Bottles at ~3. I think I prefer the high carb, but could go either way.

    For hops I've used:
    Cashmere & Chinook: Loved this combination with the belgian yeast. Definite orange pulp character with complementary spicy yeast character.
    Mosaic: Great as well
    Vic Secret: Brewing next week

    My DH quantities are a little higher per varietal, but not in total.

    Overall this is pretty much all I'm drinking right now. I know of one other similar beer (allagash hoppy table).

    Edit: These have been in the 5-6% range.
     
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  3. riptorn

    riptorn Initiate (76) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Trader

    Maybe there are tidbits HERE that will be useful.
     
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  4. loebrygg

    loebrygg Initiate (151) Jun 4, 2016 Norway

    I would hop my next Houblon more heavy, but no as much of an NEIPA
     
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  5. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I was drinking my latest NEIPA, which has the same hop bill as this beer, and had this thought, because although it does have a little citrus rind, it is mostly tropical fruit. I find that if the hop profile leans too much towards the pithy, piney, resinous, dank end of the spectrum, that it will clash with the Belgian yeast, but if it is tropical fruit forward it will complement it. How do you feel about it?
     
  6. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (9,918) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania

    I actually have a semi-standard Tripel brewed with that yeast right now that I'm waiting to dry hop with Citra and some Amarillo or Mandarina Bavaria for balance. Citra on it's own can get a little edgy. I'd love to use Mosaic if I had any but I don't, and I completely agree with you on the pithy/piney/resinous hops masking the Belgian yeast character.

    I like your basic approach of 100% pilsner as well. I used some Munich to round it out a bit which may or may not have been a mistake, I'll see when it's finished; and my sugar was all in the kettle. I also used some bitter orange peel and coriander so it's not BJCP entry eligible

    I've actually written in my notes for the next possible beer: Belgian NE IPA, Belgian IPA w/ Citra, Sour Belgian IPA w/ Pineapple. I'll probably get vetoed by the boss, and I'm also thinking that following a hoppy Belgian with a hoppy Belgian might be too much ... although this isn't really a hoppy Belgian, I'm just looking for a little citrus on top. So, back at ya, any ideas of what to brew next with this yeast?
     
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  7. loebrygg

    loebrygg Initiate (151) Jun 4, 2016 Norway

    I would go for more floral hops like Amarillo and Cascade
     
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  8. loebrygg

    loebrygg Initiate (151) Jun 4, 2016 Norway

    I've used Columbus, Amarillo and Saaz and would stick to that
    just more
    and maybe some wheat
     
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  9. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I was planning on keeping my forays into Belgian territory rather traditional, but this idea came along at just the right time as I have a yeast cake about to be racked off of and I'm running low on NEIPA.

    Been thinking strongly about a patersbier, but on the hoppier side. Not really a huge fan of dubbels, but I could warm to the idea if the right recipe comes my way.
     
  10. JohnConnorforealthistime

    JohnConnorforealthistime Initiate (51) Mar 10, 2016 Wisconsin

    Sounds like a plan I have in my mind. I've wanted to try B56 Rustic by Imperial. Seems like it would fit the bill very well. Let us know how it turns out!
     
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  11. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Looks like a good fit for this kind of beer:

    This unique yeast can be used in your saison, farmhouse ale, or other Belgian styles where high ester levels are important. Rustic typically produces a lot of bubblegum and juicy aromas that compliment complex maltiness.

    Temp: 68-80F, 20-27C // Flocculation: Medium // Attenuation: 72-76%
     
  12. riptorn

    riptorn Initiate (76) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Trader

    Speaking of bubble gum.....Sunday I co-pitched Belle Saison and BE-134 in a 1.094 wheat extract. Tuesday it was gassing off banana/citrus, yesterday it was Bazooka Joe all the way, today it bubble gum, banana and light orange in that order.
     
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  13. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    I’m sitting on a 1/2 lb of Enigma hops and a pack of T-58 right now with those same intentions. NEIPA hopped/dry hop. But what about throwing in some flaked wheat/oats?
     
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  14. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (9,918) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania

    I say go for it, somewhere in here there's a new "American" style brewing.
     
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  15. loebrygg

    loebrygg Initiate (151) Jun 4, 2016 Norway

  16. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    Also something I’ve been contemplating was what temp to ferment at. Low to try to get more subtle belgain character OR higher to coax more fruity/banana/bubblegum/phenolic/spice. Someone correct me on that if I’m wrong. I’ve never used T-58 but have tried to research it as best as possible. Also I’ve read that at the lower temp it will kick off more clove than fruity.
     
    #16 NorCalKid, Aug 9, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  17. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Initiate (127) Jul 20, 2016 Arizona

    I'm literally fermenting one of these right now. Pils malt with about 30% flaked rye and oats, total. Hopstand additions of El Dorado, Chinook, and Azacca. I plan to dry hop with more Azacca and ElDorado. Fermented with WLP585.

    The fermenter looks and smells wonderful, but I've yet to taste it. I'll let you know how it turns out.
     
  18. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Shouldn't be an issue, at all. The least they'll do is give you some kick ass head retention.

    Underpitch at a little higher temperature and then let it settle back to close to ambient. That should get you where you want.
     
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  19. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Please do.
     
  20. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Initiate (127) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    One I’ve made that may be along these lines got good reviews, even from a colleague in Austria. FWIW...
    10 gallon batch
    17 lb Maris Otter
    2# Malted Rye
    1# Carapils
    2# Japanese Knotweed Honey (raw)
    Centenial: 0.6 oz@60 min, 0.4 oz @ 20 min, 1oz @ 15 min, 1oz @FO
    400 ml WLP565 slurry, 2nd gen

    OG= 1.059 (honey added during fermentation)
    FG= 1.0006

    Carb w/ sucrose syrup to 2.4 vol

    To me, the yeast was quite pronounced, but still very refreshing; tough to not have at least 2 bottles in a sitting. This honey contributed its own tartness (very different from clover honey), which worked well with the rye and Centennial.
     
  21. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Initiate (127) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    Jeez...This was supposed to go against the Belgian Tripel/Quad thread. I’ll copy it over. Sorry.
     
  22. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Funny . . . haven't pitched onto a yeast cake for a while and kinda forgot how quickly fermentation starts. High krausen within a couple hours is an amazing thing. Good thing that I split the batch between two 5 gallon fermenters, 'cause I would have needed a blowoff (which I don't have) if I tried to ferment in on 6.5 gallon one. Fermentation is slowing down as of this morning. Anxious to get the first round of dry hopping into the beer. Will rack the contents of both 5 gallon fermenters into one 6.5 gallon one for the dry hopping, btw.
     
  23. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    What was the re-pitch onto? Was your OP this beer? Next brew day I’m whippin’ up my Belgian NEIPA, so no more procrastinating.

    Was thinking Enigma/Nelson. Small 10 min addition with a large fo/wp. GP & oats mashed at 150. And of course a big dry hop with just Enigma. T-58 fermented at 68-70.
     
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  24. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    First round of dry hops just went in. I know it's early, but it smelled awesome even before the DH.
     
  25. JayDubTrub

    JayDubTrub Initiate (54) Feb 17, 2017 California

    Used this Rustic in an intended Saison - after a 24 hour lag, and tore through the sugars in less than a week - 1.055 OG to 1.005 final (about 90% attenuation), and that was at 65f, raised to low 70s for week 2 but no further gain. So it's a beast. BUT it did not give me any of those flavors I associate with a saison - the bubblegum and juicy aromas I was looking for were absent (some from my zests made it through). Malt bill was 9lb pilsner/2lb white wheat, 5gallons...missing that Saison III yeast right now...
     
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  26. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    What was your hop schedule? You mention a saison. Was this intended as a saison or a pseudo NEIPA?
     
  27. Lukass

    Lukass Savant (915) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio

    FWIW, I had a fantastic Belgian DIPA a few weekends ago called Declaration by Taxman brewing. It was hazy, juicy, and that belgian yeast threw out some great esters that went well with the citrusy hops. I enjoyed it so much, that I contacted the head brewer the other day, and here's what he said they used.

    Pilsen, Pale Wheat, Flaked Oats, Flaked Wheat and Flaked Barley.

    Amarillo, Azacca, Citra and Mosaic @ 3.75 lbs per bbl

    Fermented with OYL-042.

    Not a ton of info to go off, but I may try to replicate something similar down the road. Just throwing it out there for inspiration. I think your recipe sounds great as well!

    Edit: it says 'East Coast style IPA' as the base in the description, but I didn't get that at all. I got NEIPA all the way
     
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  28. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Initiate (127) Jul 20, 2016 Arizona

    I'm pretty sure that nowadays "east coast IPA" is synonymous with "New England" or "Northeast" style IPA. At least where I am, no one seems to regard the old east coast style as something that still even exists.
     
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  29. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Just packaged this yesterday and it tasted fantastic with an absolutely out of this world nose. WAY more tropical fruit forward than the same hop schedule with an NEIPA yeast strain. This might be my new "go to" hoppy beer recipe if it conditions well.
     
  30. Brewday

    Brewday Initiate (108) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Has anyone used WLP-644. I'm curious how it would work in a NEipa.
     
  31. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I've not myself, but I have heard excellent results, as it is a big ester former and POF-.
     
  32. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    @EvenMoreJesus

    So wandered into the LHBS the other day and saw a packet of WY3787. I’m brewing up my Pseudo Belgian NEIPA this weekend. What’s your thoughts on yeast blending. T-58/WY3787? Is it throwing s*** into a fan hoping something hits? Or save my money.
     
  33. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (807) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I think that it can work well, though I've never used those two in concert. Truthfully, I'd be more apt to use 3787 on its own as T58 is POF+ and creates rotundone (black pepper), both of which I really wouldn't want in a tropical fruit forward beer, but YMMV.
     
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  34. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    I have a pack of K-97 as well. Doing a little researching, I think I’ll blend it with the 3787. Never used either one but stoked for this weekend. Will post once all said and done. Thanks for the tip.
     
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  35. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Initiate (127) Jul 20, 2016 Arizona

    I tapped this about a week ago, but I had family in town so I didn't get around to posting. Still haven't drank a ton of it or taken notes, but my initial reaction is very positive. Lots of fruit on the palate, and a bit of spice to keep things interesting. Definitely more complex than your typical NEIPA. Not sure if I like it better or not. Only time will tell...
     
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  36. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    So going with:

    Great Western Pils malt, Flaked Wheat, Flaked Oats.

    WY3787~K-97

    Enigma/Nelson Sauvin,[Simcoe Cryo in dry hop + Enigma]
     
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  37. JayDubTrub

    JayDubTrub Initiate (54) Feb 17, 2017 California

    Yup - totally intended as a Saison. This yeast was recommended as a good fit but for me, but no - an effective yeast but can't say I can determine yeast character given all the saisonesque additions - hops were light (1ozPerle for bittering, 2oz Saaz at flameout). Added zests from 1 Lemon,lime, ruby grapefruit, orange, 4lb of peach in secondary. Same schedule with Saison III had tons of yeast character. Just posting this as fyi/warning for those going for a saison with this yeast - think it'd be great in any IPA...
     
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  38. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (92) Jan 10, 2018 California

    So I’ve got this one in the keg for a few days now. I think it’s coming together.

    Pils malt, Flaked Wheat, Flaked Oats
    Enigma and Nelson hops
    WY3787 and K-97 blend
    149f sac rest
    FG/1010 @7.1% IBU(?) 1 oz Enigma at 5 mins. with 6(combo)oz’s in the hopstand <180 for 6.25 gals. 4 ozs Enigma in the dry hop.

    Interesting grape, tropical, overall fruity nose. Dry with more grassy earthy, lemon like citrus and a Belgian like spice in the finish.

    Hoppy Belgian Blonde? Cool experiment. Wife likes it so, Win!
     
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