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Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by draheim, Jul 15, 2013.
Texas: 512 Pecan Porter
I see what you did there.
Many Germans are strict, fundamentalist, interpreters of their Reinheitsgebot. Too them, a great Belgian kriek lambic would be dismissed as an inferior adjunct(cherrys) beer. I suspect that attitude is the cause of his statement about adjuncts in American craft beer. It's a rigid ideology that excludes many innovative new beers as well as some classic Belgian styles that are considered some of the worlds best beers.
Well, we've had "top 5 beer countries"... And, again, I'm going to whine looking for "top X" beer without specifying styles/categories is counterproductive. Someone who likes Tripels may not approve of Hefe or someone who prefers stouts may sneer at an IPA. It's bad enough that we all have different tastes--trying to compare across categories is counterproductive.
Isn't this this the case with everything on this website - about this being from an USA point of view?
Samuel Smith is indeed not that impressive - it is unfortunate if that is the best English beer that makes it to the States.
Below is my 100 % uninformed & thus pointless list. Obviously limited to what I have tried & zero insight.
Belgium: Orval (common) or Armand Lente (rare)
USA: Hair of the Dog Adam from the Wood or Bourbon BA Dark Lord
Netherlands: De Molen Mooi & Machtig (Cognac Barrel)
Denmark : Mikkeller Beer Geek Brunch Weasel
England: Thornbridge Hall Courage Russian Imperial Stout
Italy: Baladin Terre Riserva Teo Musso 2010
Germany: Aecht Schlenkerla Fastenbier
Norway: Haandbryggeriet Norwegian Wood
Scotland: BrewDog Coffee & Chocolate
France: Pleine Lune Super Nova Triple
Sweden : Närke Pannknektarnas Porter
Canada : Dieu du Ciel Rosée d’Hibiscus (vintage)
Japan : Hitachino Nest Ancient Nipponia
Spain : Agullons Bruno Pale Ale
Switzerland : BFM Cuvée Alex le Rouge (draft)
It's crazy because before Reinheitsgebot (around 1907) was imposed , German brewing was a hotbed of variety.Ron as would be expected has published some information;
I for one would love to see someone from Europe list Flying Dog or Samuel Adams as the best American beer. It gives me some insight as to what they like, what they are drinking, and what is available to them in their part of the world. Hell, I'm from the US, but if you ask me what the best US beers are I'll mainly list off West Coast beers. I don't get to try many beers that aren't distributed to California because I don't travel much to other parts of the country and I don't do much trading. But I love West Coast beers. Does that invalidate my opinion of US beers?
Here's my ignorant American list
Mexico - Bohemia, Negra Modelo
Belgium - Rochefort 10, Fantome Hiver, Delerium Nocturnum, Gulden Draak
Singapore - Tiger Beer
Hong Kong - Pale Pilsen
England - J.W. Lees
Ethiopia - Hakim Stout
Maybe. It was a reference to roasted barley in all the stouts. Roasted barley is made from unmelted grain, and is therefore an adjunct.
A kriek Lambic would be declared infected and unfit for human consumption.
You left out CA and VT, which were also briefly independent Republics. Both make some fine beers.
Belgium: Abt. 12 or maybe Saison du Pont - i prefer the Christmas version.
Germany: Ayinger's Maibock or Celebrator.
Canada: Unibroue Vintage Ale from Trader Joe's.
England: Fuller's Bengal Lancer on Cask, or name your favorite fuller's cask ale.
United States: I have no idea what to put here, just not Heady Topper or either Pliny since I haven't been able to get a hold of them. haha. For fun, I'll say: Surly Furious or TG PseudoSue.
Germany: Ayinger Celebrator
Belgium: Westvleteren 12...Rochefort is great, but I prefer the bite of the Westi over the smoother Rochefort. After drinking three cases of westi 12 I prefer the westi
USA: New Belgium Abbey Style Ale
Japan: Fresh Orion beer from the brewery
Mexico: Fresh Corona from the brewery on the beach in Baja
I never see why anyone would care what I like, but wth I will play 1 more time:
Belgium: Orval, Westvleteren(all 3), Rochefort 8,10, Cantillion, Struise, ST B, etc
USA: Founders, CCB
Germany: more of style thing here with me, than brewery
UK: I take any cask beer they have
Czech: U fleku Dark lager
had some good Italian and French beers over year but I forget their names...
Surprised that so many went with Rochefort 10 over Westy 12 or is it just that the Rochefort is that much more accessible?
Belgium: Westy 12
Canada: Trois Pistoles
UK: SS Oatmeal Stout / Old Engine Oil
Germany: Weihenstephaner Hefeweiss
Ireland: Guinness Foreign Extra
Denmark: Mikkeller Black Hole (Red Wine)
Holland: La Trappe Quad
South Africa: Carling Black Label (cough, cough)
It's mostly about what's readily available. I see Flying Dog beers all the time here in Amsterdam.You can only list a beer you've tried.
I usually avoid American beer here in Europe, because you've no guarantee what shape it's going to be in. Much like German beer in the US. It's always better to drink beer close to where it was brewed and it's fresh.
I can only pick:
Belgium: St Bernardus Abt
Belgium again: Westvleteren 8 and 12
Franconia: Mahr's Hellerbock/Klosterbrau Maibock
Munich: Augustiner Helles
Düsseldorf: Uerige Alt
Franconia agian: Schlenkerla Fastenbier
Oberpfalz: all that Zoigly stuff
Most of the iconic British beers have disappeared or been or been buggered up. Union-breed draught Bass was a thing of beauty, if looked after. Bottle-conditioned Guinnes Extra Stout was a complex, slightly lactic delight. A world away from frozen, bland draught Guinness.
I remember what I should pick for England: Harvey's Imperial Stout. The perfect breakfast beer.
Ya same reason why I mostly avoid European beers here. If I was traveling in Europe I'm sure I'd avoid American beers as well.
Bass is still a drinkable pint on cask though not as it used to be. I had some today in the Staunton Arms (which you should know) , it went very nicely with my beef sandwiches
The sandwiches make the glass look like a half pint but it's an Imperial Pint.
You've dropped a tenner !!!
Bottles are no longer drinkable in the US. Bought at 12er months ago before reading that it's brewed in the US. In fact, I would not have even noticed it had I not been puzzled by the complete loss of hop character and other flavor. It almost tasted like ... Heineken. I started looking for any dates and, instead, found that it was brewed here. Never mind that iconic label is gone. Nothing but the trademark left... When I saw the rebates last month, all I needed to know was that the same rebate applied to Bass, Beck's and St Pauli Girl... Ugh...
Germany- Weltenburger Dunkel
Belgium- Cantillon Kriek
England- My fav was london pride... prob not the best though
England-Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout
Germany-Cliche but Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock
Belgium-Orval, lots of imitators and tributes, nothing quite as good
Canada-Unibroue La Terrible
United States-Founders KBS
Really??? Like anywhere but the US is even in the running.
Good thread (and I love the humor). Tough as nails to pick a US brew, although since I have a PtE AND a HT at home waiting for a potential side-by-side, maybe I'll have an opinion soon. Right now, I'd have to agree that maybe a Bourbon Barrel Aged brew might be best.
Belgium: Can't very well argue with Roche 10, although Westmalle Tripel is one of my all-time favorites.
Germany: "Best" beer? I'd have to try some local craft options. Perfect, most identifiably German, for me? Franziskaner, or Spaten lager (now I sound like a company shill, but whatever). Those are the kind of beers, along with a good Koelsch, that I think of when I think of German beer.
France: Dunno. They've got pretty damn good wine, though.
Canada: Something with maple syrup.
Darn...looks like I really only drink German beers, Belgian abbey/trappist ales, and American craft.
Can't tell if serious
An adjunct is a second grain, i.e. corn or rice, added to the mash or another substance like fruit or sugar.
I don't consider roasted barley an adjunct and don't see what malting, or the lack of it, has to do with it at all. Barley traditionally belongs in beer and therefore should not be considered an adjunct.
Flaked barley is also an adjunct. So is raw barley.
Edit - a reference for you.
Don't worry, I've got another one somewhere
Adjunct strictly speaking is an unmalted grain which is mashed alongside the malt , using the spare enzymes to do the work. It is more loosely used to cover any unmalted fermentable substance and roasted barley does contain a small quantity of fermentable matter.
Referring to the Reinheitsgebot, Guinness would have been legal in the 1516 version but not in the most recent one.
OK. Let's look at your claim that the Top 250 beers are mostly American. Have you considered the fact that the vast majority of BAs are Americans who have access primarily to American beer? As many people have pointed out in this thread, most of the best English and German beers never leave their native country; the only way to try them is to travel to England and Germany. I would venture to guess that most BAs who rate and review beers have not done that; therefore, I'd argue that the Top 250 list is inherently biased toward where the highest concentration of BAs live—namely, the eastern 1/2 or 1/3 of the United States.
So we here in the U.S. have a somewhat skewed view of the best beer the rest of the world has to offer (which, I'd add, is also true of other countries' perception of American beer). Yes, we have something like 2,400 breweries in the U.S. now. This pales in comparison to the number of breweries per capita in Belgium, England, and Germany (based on numbers here on BA, Belgium has 213 breweries for 11 million, UK has 625 breweries for 63 million, and Germany has 1,230 breweries for 82 million). To suggest that America has overtaken all other beer-producing countries simply ignores reality.
Sadly, your post will live on for eternity for the amusement of countless future generations.
Sweeping generalizations about the opinions, experience and sophistication of a population are at best naïve and from there, disintegrate into thoughts that are provocative, condescending, and blatantly insulting. If you are as worldy as you claim, I expect a more open-minded attitude towards the life experiences others bring to the table.
Old world is not better than new world. It's just different. You can look at it two different ways. Old world techniques brought beer to where it is today, and should be appreciated for its rich variety. But if restricting oneself to old world techniques in brewing, you're essentially cutting off the progress you are celebrating and basically saying "there! we're done. Nothing new can be produced anymore"
Just because a new brewing idea didn't originate in the fatherland doesn't mean it's junk
signed- a well-traveled kraut-American bier advocate
I had no idea Flying Dog was popular/known in Europe. Seems like a pretty smart market to get involved with early.
With German beers, we do luckily get many great ones here in the US (Ayinger, Mahr's, Spezial, Weishenstephaner, Augustiner, etc.) although they're often pretty rough by the time they make it here. When fresh they're terrific, though.
While fairly nondescript over there, I still think Augustiner Helles and the (much less common) Kloster Andechs Doppelbock might be my favorites.
UK actually went over the 1,000 brewery mark towards the end of last year.
Massive growth in beer at the moment this side of the pond.
Take London for example, some may find it hard to believe that London only had 4 or 5 breweries just 4 years ago.
I often come across folks from the US who have been to London (2 or more years ago) who weren't particularly impressed with the beer scene in London, good cask beer aside, the choice was never that great.
There are now in excess of 50 London brewers and growing - ditto the number of good venues.
Yeah, I know the BA numbers for the UK are low; probably likewise for Germany and Belgium. I used those only because they were handy.
When I win the lottery I will visit Prague.
Two beer places that are on my bucket list:
· U Fleků to drink their dark lagers
· A Tankova Pub to drink unfiltered/unpasteurized Pilsners
A list of some Tankova Pubs:
1. U Rudolfina (Pilsner Urquell Tank),
2. U Cerneho Vola (Kozel Tank)
3. Beograd pub (Krušovice Tank)
4. U Jindrisska Veze (Gambrinus Tank)
5. Pivovar U Tri Ruzi (Brewpub)
6. Plzeňský Anděl (Pilsner Urquell Tank)
7. U Medvidku (Brewpub and unpasteurized Budvar)
Should imagine Germany and Belgium are pretty accurate. They just haven't witnessed the growth of the UK and if anything I'd suspect a slight decline in Germany?
Italy is the country in Europe that has witnessed the biggest growth in brewing number in recent years.
The only 2 I buy from, so...
US - HF Abner (probably, tough to decide)
Belgium - Fou Foune (far easier decision)
US: Fresh Zombie Dust or Supplication
To chime in on what Ruds posted: “Italy is the country in Europe that has witnessed the biggest growth in brewing number in recent years.”
Italy has a dynamic craft brewery movement which is growing quickly.
I have only had a few imported Italian craft beers but I have really enjoyed them.
It is my understanding that there is essentially zero history as regards kegging for these new craft breweries so the principle package for their beers are bottles. These bottles seem to make it to the US in fine shape (or maybe I was just lucky).
I look forward to the burgeoning Italian craft beer movement.
Unfortunately, even though tradition is changing here in the U.S., I'd have to say the beer that most epitomizes our nation is essentially any adjunct lager, potentially a lite one. While I'd like it to be something like Pliny/Heady or KBS/FBS, I am still willing to bet a very large portion of the beer drinkers in this country have never heard of those beers. A lot of my non-craft beer drinking friends don't even know what Founders is (and I live in Michigan).