Best Beers for Women to Order (video)

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Higy, Jul 4, 2013.

?

is the video condescending towards women as a whole?

  1. yes

    63.3%
  2. no

    36.7%
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  1. Higy

    Higy Initiate (0) Feb 9, 2012 Indiana

    http://www.womensforum.com/best-beers-for-women-to-order-video.html

    My wife, a very knowledgeable beer drinker, watched this video and felt completely insulted. Even though ciders & lambics are her favorites.

    I saw the interview as covering the basics. The interviewee isn't going to recommend zombie dust to someone just getting started in craft beer; you will loose them after their first sip & probably never drink anything other than BMC.

    You have to walk before you can run. I didn't start out drinking super hopped up brew, but now I can't get enough pliny or enjoy by.

    What are your thoughts?
     
    BrettHead likes this.
  2. Andygirl

    Andygirl Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2013 Michigan

    I think crap like that is why I prefer men's forums. :wink:
     
  3. devlishdamsel

    devlishdamsel Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2009 Washington

    Tinnermans as an example of a lambic?? Because you know us women.. we like drinking pasturized koolaid.
    Also stating that lambics are typically between 6 and 10 percent and very sweet. In many ways this is blantant disinformation as true lambics are generally at the highest about 7 percent abv and not sweet whatsoever( not including the new cantillon which has a much higher gravity ofc ).
    I actually find the disinformation in this video more insulting to the styles of beer represented, however it is also condescending to women as well.
     
  4. utopiajane

    utopiajane Poo-Bah (2,356) Jun 11, 2013 New York

    Lambics, belgians or cider . . . yes it was condescending but not terribly. It's a fluff piece like the ones on the weather channel about cute things. It's about trends . . . that hip chick who has now has to face a beer menu. Gosh the reading alone! I want to order a pony with my beer.
     
    Sesmu, Danpisco12, KCAS81 and 2 others like this.
  5. fredmugs

    fredmugs Poo-Bah (1,523) Aug 11, 2012 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Oh MY God. That red beer like totally matches my dress.
     
  6. devlishdamsel

    devlishdamsel Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2009 Washington

    Maybe the GOT series should do a Flemish red called the red priestess!
     
  7. JamesShoemaker

    JamesShoemaker Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I estimate that somewhere around 90% of bars don't have lambics. I also estimate that these suggestions are helping no one. My favorite part was the guy's surprise at the number of women he's encountered with sophisticated beer palettes. That suggests that cider, lambics, and belgians are unsophisticated.
     
  8. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    I didn't have to watch more than 5 second so know this was insulting.

    "You walk into a bar, you pick up a beer menu, YOU'RE A LADY...."

    Stop. What does this mean? That inherently a "lady" will be befuddled by a beer menu or that only men could decipher the complexities of a beer menu?

    Sounds like the perpetuation of stereotypes to me.
     
  9. loafinaround

    loafinaround Aspirant (296) Jul 16, 2011 New York

    truthfully, it's kinda like reading cosmo and getting offended by all the articles about "how to trap and keep a man"

    just stay away from those BS media outlets, and hopefully they'll die off one day.
     
  10. GarthDanielson

    GarthDanielson Poo-Bah (4,645) Nov 6, 2010 Virginia
    Beer Trader

    My wife drinks RIS as her preference...this piece was not even close.
     
  11. DelMontiac

    DelMontiac Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2010 Oklahoma

    I'm going to say yes...as a whole.
     
  12. Kerrie

    Kerrie Initiate (0) Aug 24, 2012 Michigan

    Wow. I like all three styles that they presented, but I still felt, "really, this is all you know about beer? Can't you elaborate beyond 2 minutes?" and "I've never seen a lambic with an ABV that high..." I'm insulted mainly because they didn't mention stouts and porters, or hefeweizens. I myself and so many other women I know got into craft because of those styles. That said, I now love just about everything.
     
    devlishdamsel likes this.
  13. Andrew041180

    Andrew041180 Crusader (700) Mar 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    This video is not intended for us as an audience. Of course many of the people on this forum would feel insulted - it would be like asking a grad student doing some kind of advanced calculus to go back to long division. If you realize that the intended audience is trying to choose between BMC or some kind of faux cosmo of the month, then this movie at least presents three styles that may actually be approachable.
     
  14. djsmith1174

    djsmith1174 Disciple (343) Aug 21, 2005 Minnesota

    It should have just been a suggestion piece, they made it condescending with the wording. And they gave way too few suggestions and not nearly enough descriptors of what someone's tastes might find appealing about them. Assuming that a female likes something sweet more than a man is just foolish. Anyone new to better beer would be befuddled in a craft bar, man or woman. That's why the staff needs to understand their stock very well. Too much bad advice is given on the internet in general.
     
    pieman25, loafinaround and Kerrie like this.
  15. danedelman

    danedelman Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2011 Pennsylvania

    When I travel and see a women at a bar, typically they are drinking the full flavored "dark" beer than the guys!! I like these women!!
     
    Blueribbon666 and Kerrie like this.
  16. Stugotzo

    Stugotzo Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2012 Florida

    This was a great picture of 4 women enjoying some beer together

    [​IMG]
     
    MC6, BrettHead, darkandhoppy and 34 others like this.
  17. vw73182

    vw73182 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2007 Indiana

    since when is cider beer?
     
  18. Stugotzo

    Stugotzo Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2012 Florida

    Since when does beer have "hoops"? :confused:

    Belgian ale[​IMG] is very high in alcohol content between 9-10%, so be careful, this beer will sneak up on you! This is a very sweet beer, they add some sugar during the fermentation process, and so it is a little sweeter than other beers.

    Belgian ale is a style now? And they're all between 9-10%? Wow, learn something new from a woman's forum every day.
     
    RobertColianni, RyanMM and BKBassist like this.
  19. jplopez21

    jplopez21 Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Honestly no offense to the OPs wife, but everyone nowadays jumps at the chance to say something is offensive. This is how I interpreted the video. Female reporter/journalist/whatever is doing an article/video on beer for women. Female reporter looks looks up some local "craft beer enthusiast" who she assumes is somewhat knowledgeable on beer and interviews him. Male enthusiast gives HIS opinion on what beer he generally sees most women drinking. And for all we know, those beers could very well in fact be predominantly drank by women in that city where he's being interviewed in (yes, cider is not a beer).

    Yes, there are women who drink regular beer, and yes there are women who don't. But fact of the matter is most women drink fruity/sweet drinks. You can't really argue with this. Whether it's a stereotype or it's considered "insulting" by some, the video does have some validity to it.
     
  20. djsmith1174

    djsmith1174 Disciple (343) Aug 21, 2005 Minnesota


    Good point. Probably more uninformed than condescending. But the "expert's" reasoning was quite stereotypical of ladies preferences in drinks.
     
  21. hellhammermario

    hellhammermario Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2012 North Carolina

    Agreed with several other folks -- a lot of misinformation... not really condescending in my eyes, personally. However, I can certainly see and understand why a person might think so. Different strokes.
     
  22. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Meyvn (1,467) Aug 29, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Welp, I'm making a note to never visit Howells & Hood, wherever that is. If that's their beer "expert", then I'd hate to see what kind of lunacy your average waitstaff member can impart. Also, it is a pet peeve of mine when people use "Belgian ale" to describe a beer's style. Because when I say "I like Belgian ales", I mean I like gueuze and lambic and BPAs and BPSAs and Tripels and Quads and Dubbels and Wits, but I think many people use that phrase when they mean they like Belgian blonde ales, or they like Stella Artois and it annoys me that I might be mistaken for a beer rube.

    But to the OPs question, the video is without question condescending. Exhibit A:

    "You walk into a bar, you pick up a beer menu, you're a LADY..."

    As if being a lady somehow explains why someone would be lost ordering a beer on a large menu (lots of words hard for ladybrain to process). I cringe anytime I hear people use the words "lady" or "ladies" instead of "woman" or "women". It would be like substituting "gentleman/gentlemen" for "man/men", which no one does because it sounds ridiculous.

    But here's the strange thing--there is a longer, less condescending, and *slightly* more informed version of this same video elsewhere on the site:

    http://www.womensforum.com/how-to-find-the-right-beer-for-you.html

    [shrugs]
     
    RyanMM and jreindl like this.
  23. VictorWisc

    VictorWisc Devotee (463) Jan 2, 2013 Massachusetts

    It would be a surprise to these idiots in the video how many women actually like stouts and porters and how many would like the floral DIPAs if they only were given opportunities to try them by boneheaded bartenders who steer them toward "fruit" beers. BTW, the stereotype totally works in Holland (I've mentioned previously that lambics and fruit-flavored beers come in smaller bottles and are referred to as "girl-beer" by the natives).
    The funny thing is that the only pour that they had that was in any way representative of the respective style was the cider. The other two are nothing like what they describe. Nothing like sending a clueless "reporter" out to get the dirt on "girl-beer".
    On their side, the numbers at the fests are not exactly encouraging. The proportion of female volunteers is fairly high, but the attendees are mostly male. That's a disappointment. What's worse is that when going out in "mixed company" to a bar or a restaurant with a great craft selection you might see men ordering a decent beer while women ask for a cocktail or, worse, for cheap house wine by the glass. You can understand that when everyone orders macros -- sort of. So the men are at fault too.
     
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  24. VictorWisc

    VictorWisc Devotee (463) Jan 2, 2013 Massachusetts

    Oh, I see! It's intended for bubble-heads who used to play with Talking Barbies ("Math is Hard!").

    Sure, the video is not intended for BA audience. That doesn't make it any less stupefying and condescending. Other than lying about ABV, it's not even particularly informative. It's the classic shove off, "Here, you don't know what you're doing, so I'll tell you what you like!"
     
  25. dar482

    dar482 Poo-Bah (3,475) Mar 9, 2007 New York
    Beer Trader

    Don't mess with a woman who knows her beer. "pasturized koolaid." Killer quote.
     
    RyanMM and VonZipper like this.
  26. VictorWisc

    VictorWisc Devotee (463) Jan 2, 2013 Massachusetts

    You should have stopped with "Don't mess with a woman...":stuck_out_tongue:
     
  27. afrokaze

    afrokaze Zealot (579) Jun 12, 2009 Arizona
    Industry Beer Trader

    I can absolutely argue with that "fact". What proof do you have that women prefer sweet/fruity drinks?
     
    Providence likes this.
  28. jdhowe

    jdhowe Disciple (368) Mar 18, 2013 Georgia
    Beer Trader

    Honestly I didn't find this offensive, even though I was expecting to.

    The lead-in isn't particularly strong, but it is qualifying the situation and audience, even if a bit awkwardly ("you walk into a bar, you pick up a beer menu, you're a lady, and you're not sure what to order..."). Maybe you didn't walk into the bar, maybe you're reading the menu on a board... but the last two are at least indicative of what the piece will be about -- beer menu choices that are reasonable starting points for a woman who is uncertain of what she wants and doesn't know where to start otherwise.

    Multiple times the "beer expert" makes statements to indicate that women (and anyone else, as well) can have any taste in beer and can order across all styles, but then goes on to say that general trends in what his female patrons drink tend toward the subset of beverages he's selected. Should cider be on the beer menu? That is a different discussion. So he's just saying that "these are drinks on our 'beer menu' and they are the ones women tend to order."

    His description of the styles themselves could maybe use a little work and his abv figures may be a little off (but aren't outside of reasonable range). That said, I feel like he chose a set of drinks that have some fruity character (lambic and cider from the fruits and Belgian ales generally from the esters from the yeast) based on his experience with women most popularly wanting to order something with a little sweetness. He's careful to avoid making sweeping generalizations, and seems to just be suggesting things with the highest probability of success based on his experience.
     
  29. jdklks

    jdklks Initiate (0) Aug 9, 2007 Maryland

    Most of the women I see out at bars are drinking fruit drinks. Most of the women I've introduced to beer much prefer sours and ciders to other styles. Pretty consistent with my experience. Whether it is offensive or not, I don't know. They do say "the truth hurts" sometimes, right?

    Edit: I'm fully expecting all 7 of the female BAs to berate me for that. Sorry! You guys are anomalies.
     
    CORKSCREWFISH likes this.
  30. mmmbirra

    mmmbirra Aspirant (205) Apr 19, 2009 Italy

    Raspberry lambics are sweet because fruit is "introduced during the brewing process"...
    Belgian ale is sweet because sugar is "introduced during the fermentation process"...
    Cider is "a sweet beer!"...

    Really??? You learn something new every day.
     
  31. HomeBrewed

    HomeBrewed Initiate (185) Dec 10, 2006 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    This video is embarrassing in multiple respects. One, it's basically saying women are too stupid to try beers and figure out what they like. Two, this "beer expert guy" displays his complete lack of beer knowledge. How do people like that get a job as the "beer expert?"
     
  32. pixieskid

    pixieskid Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2009 Germany

    Did anyone actually read the article...terrible info, that dude doesnt know shit.

    Lambics generally in between 6 and 10 percent abv and orange slices help to bring out citus notes in the hops...give me a fucking break.

    That whole thing was innacurate from what woman like to the info about said beers.. a prime example would be my wife. She enjos anything from hefe to lambic to imperial stout to pale ale and damn near anything accept for sweet beers like quote un quote belgians and barleywines.
     
  33. mattcrill

    mattcrill Meyvn (1,269) Mar 16, 2004 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    "The orange helps pick up floral notes of the hoops and gives the beer a hint of a citrus flavor."

    Interesting. I don't think "hoops" are part of the Reinheitsgebot.

    I think this article/video is more insulting to the beer industry than to any other demographic. Belgian Ales are "very sweet" b/c sugar is added during fermentation?? <slaps forehead>

    We aren't the demographic this website is appealing to. It's called: www.womensforum.com

    Is it a horribly researched piece? Yes.

    Is it trying to engage beer advocates or even women who happen to know or have a relationship with men who are beer advocates? Not a chance.

    Move along...nothing to see here.
     
    BeerKangaroo likes this.
  34. andrewinski1

    andrewinski1 Savant (941) Apr 14, 2009 New Hampshire

    Males are just as likely to like sweet beers. Huge alcohol bombs from Southern Tier (for example) are very sweet.
     
    jreindl likes this.
  35. jreindl

    jreindl Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2013 Wisconsin

    My wife would punch that guy in the face and be like "Now pour me a KBS, bitch!" 3:wink:
     
    CASK1, RyanMM, Kerrie and 2 others like this.
  36. RBassSFHOPit2ME

    RBassSFHOPit2ME Meyvn (1,126) Mar 1, 2009 California

    ^^^THIS^^^ Couldn't agree more. Didn't find anything distasteful except for vague information.

    OP - My wife would have liked this video and found it informative, although she's not much of a beer drinker.
     
  37. LCB_Hostage

    LCB_Hostage Initiate (0) Jan 30, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Frankly, I thought the "reporter" was far more offensive to women than the guy she was interviewing. He honestly answered her questions by saying that women order from all sections of the beer menu, but it was clear he was being asked to recommend for women who aren't regular beer drinkers and his suggestions appeared to reflect his observations as a beer manager in a trendy bar. The woman asking the questions however, was utterly insipid.
    "You go into a bar and you're a lady. OMG what are you going to do?????"
     
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  38. TheGator321

    TheGator321 Aspirant (239) May 29, 2013 Connecticut

    The best part of the video is when she takes a sip of the lambic and goes cross-eyed
     
    utopiajane and jreindl like this.
  39. billyshears

    billyshears Disciple (354) Jan 27, 2008 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    despite the awful misinformation, i'm not going to say those are bad recommendations for the typical female who has yet to be introduced to craft. my gf hated beer when she first met me. started her off with stuff like wisconsin belgian red / lindemans and then onto delirium tremens and belgian strong dark ales (gulden draak), then sweet stouts (choklat), and eventually to sours and barrel aged stuff. she still has a hard time with hoppy ipas, but is starting to like some of the sweeter double ipas.
     
  40. JamesShoemaker

    JamesShoemaker Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader


    This. My girlfriend's beer of choice is stout, followed closely by DIPAs. She's had several gueuzes and didn't like any of them; the only lambic she ever remotely cared for was Cantillon Kriek. She thinks cider is for "pussies" (her word) and that belgians can be really hit or miss.

    God, my girlfriend is awesome.
     
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