Welcome to BeerAdvocate!

Looking to talk, rate or trade beer? Join today by creating your free account.

Dismiss Notice
Curious about recent updates to the site and app? Check the Announcements forum for updates.
Dismiss Notice
Love Belgian Beer?

Join us Sep 17 in Portland, Maine for Return of the Belgian Beer Fest, featuring hundreds of authentic Belgian beers and Belgian-inspired offerings.

Tickets + more: beeradvocate.com/belgian

Big Beer losing further ground to Craft. Ads less effective

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by Zhiguli, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. rlcoffey

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Posts:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    990
    Location:
    Kentucky
    He didnt mention hate.
     
  2. cavedave

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Posts:
    7,872
    Likes Received:
    43,429
    Location:
    New York
    TTL you are correct. Don't get your point about that, though.
     
  3. Zhiguli

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Posts:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    773
    Location:
    California
    I believe, in big coastal cities like NYC, 9 out of 10 people don't think craft beer sucks as you stated.
     
  4. cavedave

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Posts:
    7,872
    Likes Received:
    43,429
    Location:
    New York
  5. rlcoffey

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Posts:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    990
    Location:
    Kentucky
    You can keep referencing that, but your comment had NOTHING to do with containers but with drinkers.

    Drinkers != Containers.

    Well, except for a little while after we drink.

    Quoting you from above: "Nine of every ten beer drinkers thinks craft beer sucks"

    5+ out of 10 beer drinkers like craft beer. You were wrong. Period.
     
  6. cavedave

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Posts:
    7,872
    Likes Received:
    43,429
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks for clarifying, again, that I didn't say what I meant, but wouldn't you rather take issue with what I meant
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/t...ads-less-effective.120696/page-3#post-1782455
    than what I already clarified isn't what I meant? :)
     
  7. yemenmocha

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Posts:
    4,338
    Likes Received:
    22,227
    Location:
    Arizona
    thanks for the reminder. A few times at GABF's that I've been to in recent years they promote the "cold tasting" theme verbally, and sometimes also boast that they have the coldest beer at the GABF. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    Sokool likes this.
  8. DocHo11idaze

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Posts:
    174
    Likes Received:
    114
    Location:
    California

    Some of these brands listed have higher than a 1% market share in the US. I can get my IRI data tomorrow and double check whichones. I may not be understanding what you're saying though
     
  9. DocHo11idaze

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Posts:
    174
    Likes Received:
    114
    Location:
    California
    Another opinion, having to do wiht ABI gobbling up craft breweries and not meeting the million barrel a year quota. I dont think it'd necessarily have to do with not meeting those numbers, just does the breweries in question have the capacity to fill the pipeline needed. Im not sure if people are implying buying out breweies like new belgium, sierra nevada, etc that do or just the run of the mill craft breweries producing great beer but in such small quantities. I understand GI has some of their beers brewed at AB breweries now, but not the big boys. They do have to keep up with their beers being brewed/aged(yes it does 'age' in a tank for about 3 weeks) around the clock which at times they have problems keeping up with those being produced.
    Just some of my opinion on it, i think it'd have to be quite a big craft brewery for them to consider a buyout. I do think they will move towards more 'crafty' beers. I sampled the new Project 12 beers that are being released soon and was actually pleased with them. It wouldn't tickle the fancy of most BA's but compared to last years project 12 beers, its definitely shifting more towards a crafty taste. a north pacific lager, a bock and another vanilla cask bean variety like last years
     
  10. jesskidden

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Posts:
    7,774
    Likes Received:
    17,995
    Location:
    New Jersey
    They were copy/pasted from IRI May "Year to Date", C store 2013 data, in order, all with less than 1% of the US market, starting with Bud Light Lime's 0.68% - which put it at 1.1% of AB's sales for the year up to that date. I was not trying to give exact barrelage figures for one minor AB brand over another - my point is that they've got quite a few brands, some regional like Ziegenbock, that sell "only" in the million bbl and under segment.

    Or, another way to look at it, the IRI stats list over 65 AB brands and that's hardly all of them. Bud Light and Bud alone account forl a bit under 30% of all the beer in the US, so about 60% of AB's portfolio. With AB hovering at about 50% of the market, that means they've got to have quite a few brands under 1m bbl.
     
  11. rlcoffey

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Posts:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    990
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I didnt know you were clarifying anything. Until this post I didnt know you were admitting your mistake. :) The words "My bad" would have helped.

    I have no issue with the statement that 90% of beer purchased isnt craft. Thats just factually true.
     
  12. rlcoffey

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Posts:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    990
    Location:
    Kentucky
    But how many of those brands under 1M bbl are on the chopping block? They seem to bring out and quickly dump a number of beers that sell in the 100ks of bbls range.
     
  13. cavedave

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Posts:
    7,872
    Likes Received:
    43,429
    Location:
    New York
    Well, I quoted you, and replied in plain English, so perhaps those two words you suggest for me might work even better for you;)

    Cheers!
     
  14. rlcoffey

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Posts:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    990
    Location:
    Kentucky
    The "plain English" implied that you didnt know the difference between a container and a person. :p
     
  15. cavedave

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Posts:
    7,872
    Likes Received:
    43,429
    Location:
    New York
    Here is what I replied, by way of clarifying what I meant but didn't say. I will assume you didn't bother to read it, though I quoted you to draw your attention to it.

    "The point is that at least nine of ten containers of beer sold in this country is BMC/non craft, and that is a fact that doesn't change even if there is an occasional Saranac Pale Ale next to it in the fridge."

    Oops your bad :p:p:p:p
     
  16. dhannes

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Posts:
    225
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Wisconsin

    While InBev and SAB have not been innovative in recipes, they have added numerous new brands that gobble up shelf space. Batch 19 and Third Shift are now in every liquor store around here, as well as numerous seasonal ShockTop and Leinenkugel's offerings...that is one less space for a true craft beer.
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Posts:
    18,793
    Likes Received:
    22,406
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    I accept the premise that beers like Batch 19, Third Shift Lager, etc. do indeed occupy space on beer store shelves.

    From my perspective, a “winning concept” for the BMC breweries would be the introduction of new products that will result in genuine and sustained beer volume growth. I am not convinced that the new products that have been introduced in the last 2-3 years fulfill that ‘definition’. While ‘boxing out’ craft beer may represent something of interest to the BMC companies, what they really need is new products that will result in something like an increase of overall beer volume growth of x% over the next 5-10 years. For publically traded companies, if you aren’t growing then Wall Street will not reward you.

    Cheers!
     
  18. onebeeratatime

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
  19. Jimbobebop

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Posts:
    323
    Likes Received:
    454
    Location:
    Illinois
    I remember the popularity of those "Bitter beer face" ads from Keystone Light. If only those ad men could have seen they success of IPA's.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Posts:
    18,793
    Likes Received:
    22,406
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    “AB InBev, however, may have a bigger strategy. It’s unlikely that artisanal Budweiser will revive the mother brand’s declining sales volume the U.S. The allure of true craft is too strong. But it might persuade younger drinkers to reconsider Budweiser as something other than “industrial” beer, as the craft crowd has labeled it.

    Perhaps they’ll get a kick out of this marketing stunt and start consuming Budweiser ironically. There’s nothing wrong with that. Look at what irony did for Pabst Blue Ribbon.”

    So, do I have this right: AB is producing 3 new beers because they think it will increase sales of ‘regular’ Budweiser? If this is truly the strategy that the Marketing folks of AB have come up with, then AB is truly in trouble as a business.

    Cheers!
     
  21. MikeG304

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Posts:
    94
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    New York
    Maybe if more people read this: http://beeradvocate.com/articles/248 They would all realize what we all know already. You don't have to sacrifice taste.
     
  22. MostlyNorwegian

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Posts:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    2,121
    Location:
    Illinois
    Two words. Professional sports. Until that market is opened up in a way that includes naming rights, and exclusive contracts to sell on site. There's a logistical ceiling and it ain't gonna be cracked and do you actually want that audience on your doorstep?
     
  23. kelvarnsen

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    123
    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    I can see buyouts happening in the near future. I mean these companies might not be for sale now. But a lot of micros are in sort of the first generation of owenership. What happens when some of those owners when they want to retire? I mean a lot of them have established million dollar+ companies, and if they don't have family to hand the companies over to, or if there isn't any kind of employee ownership set up, they are probably going to be sold to the highest bidder. For profitable companies with established brands the highest bidder is probably going to be a larger brewer or an investment/banking type company.
     
  24. Peter_Wolfe

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Posts:
    209
    Likes Received:
    716
    Location:
    Oregon
    I think this is the most level-headed way to look at it (although using those arbitrary numbers the craft drinkers would number about 30,000). There is also a lot of crossover though that flies under the radar. A lot of people who enjoy craft beer also still enjoy an american lager from one of the big guys from time to time (and vice-versa).

    I've said this before here but it bears repeating - in business terms craft breweries are not seen as a "threat" by the big brewers (yet). The increase in sales of spirits, however, is. It's the generation of people 25-35 that are starting to buy more spirits and less beer that's the more concerning issue.

    In other news, you'll see ABI putting out some beers more in line with what US craft beer drinkers prefer in the coming years, and not hidden under an obscure label. The thing that most of you are missing here is that the changes in styles that occurred in American beer the previous century were driven primarily by the customers. People asked for light beers. There is a misconception (driven in large part, I think, intentionally by some marketing from Jim Koch) that Anheuser-Busch, Miller, and Coors (and at at time, Strohls, etc.) foisted light beer on people against their will. In a lot of ways it was the other way around. Now people are asking for hoppier beers (which makes me very happy). As brewers, we want to make what people want.
     
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  25. ThatFatBeerGuy

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Posts:
    147
    Likes Received:
    184
    Location:
    California
    If a craft brewery were to fall into the "cheap and easy" trap and start lowering their quality to cater to the "drink as much as possible as quickly as possible" crowd, then there are literally hundreds of others that will step up to fill the gap. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over mass-marketing ruining the craft hobby
     
  26. kelvarnsen

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    123
    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    Along with spirits I think another big threat is people giving up beer all together or severely decreasing the amount of beer they drink is probably a big threat (possibly as big as the threat of competition from smaller breweries). I mean people watching what they eat or drink has always been a thing, but when low carb dieting took off brewers probably took a hit from that. Otherwise they would not have introduced those low carb beers. At least in Canada those got a huge push. Way more than any big brewer attempt at craft beer ever has.
     
  27. MikeG304

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Posts:
    94
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    New York
    I started running and watching what i eat(not dieting, doesn't work for me) in june and I've lost almost 25 lbs. One thing I said I wouldn't do was stop drinking beer, that was not an option, and I still managed to lose the weight.
     
  28. kelvarnsen

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    123
    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    I imagine that another hit the big guys are taking is because of how changes to DUI laws. In parts of Canada you can get a roadside suspension if you blow over .05 BAC. I know for my dad and a lot of his friends, this means then when they go out it is now just 1 beer a night. And I imagine this effects the big guys more since traditionally if you are at a bar and you are drinking bud you are probably going to order a bunch compared to if you are drinking something with more flavour that costs more (where you might only have 1 to begin with).
     
  29. olekern

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Posts:
    142
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    California
    Here's some facts:

    For the month of October (yes, not all the trucks have returned, but not much will change), the craft portfolio will edge out domestic at my MillerCoors distributor 25.8% to 24.8% in terms of revenue. That is huge.
     
    MikeG304 and azorie like this.
  30. olekern

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Posts:
    142
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    California
    A sales rep that calls on retail accounts? credibility = 0%.
     
  31. olekern

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Posts:
    142
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    California
    Another anecdote: SN is with the A-B house in my area, but with the MC house across the bay. Many of these like BBC/SN/etc may tend to one of the two, but will go with the other in other circumstances. It's not cut n' dried.
     
  32. otispdriftwood

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Posts:
    5,296
    Likes Received:
    5,310
    Location:
    Colorado
    FYI - hostile takeovers are not doable unless the company is public.
     
    StuartCarter and cavedave like this.
  33. otispdriftwood

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Posts:
    5,296
    Likes Received:
    5,310
    Location:
    Colorado
    Simply put, the big brewers are jealous of the craft brewing success. The big guys know they missed out on something by sticking their heads in the sand, similar to the way U.S. automakers dismissed foreign competition as not being a viable competitor. Now it seems the bigh brewers are approaching panic stage after trying their usual tried and true [and no longer effective] marketing techniques with little or no positive results.
    As for big brewers buying up small brewers - Chicken Little was wrong. As far as I'm aware, Goose Island has not overtaken the shelves and coolers due to being owned by ABInBev and there hasn't been a flood of craft brewers lining up to sell out to the highest bidder.
    But beware, this is capitalism and don't think the big brewers will EVER give up trying.
     
    BlindSalimander and cavedave like this.
  34. Longstaff

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Posts:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    And you know Blue Moon is worrying craft when thier industry cheerleader goes on a PR compain to smear them as crafty.
     
  35. Longstaff

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Posts:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Post of the day right there...
     
  36. Chris_Panos

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Posts:
    56
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Ohio
    Less effective? You mean you guys didn't go out and buy cases of Miller Lite once they introduced that sweet new punch-top can? It does make drainpours much quicker, I'll give 'em that.
     
    5thOhio likes this.
  37. 5thOhio

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Posts:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I assume you're being sarcastic since kudos has no concept of how a hostile takeover works.
     
    StuartCarter and cavedave like this.
  38. nicholasofcusa

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Posts:
    638
    Likes Received:
    576
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    ahahaha. Obviously. Thanks for the laugh.
     
  39. ToriBug13

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Posts:
    128
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    California
    How is Redd's possibly doing well with women? It's like a cross between an apple jolly rancher and cough syrup mixed with soda water. Even "women" who like lighter beers can't possibly like that crap. Sorry, the section in this article really bugged me. As a woman I don't mind good looking girls in commercials; it seems sexist to assume that all women will only go for the fruity crap available. For the record, my buyer for a sister store is a guy, and HE brought in Redds because HE liked it-- and it's a total dog! You couldn't pay people to take it off the shelves. I warned him... The point is, maybe instead of segmenting out "women" as a market, they should just make better products to start with.
     
  40. Harnkus

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Location:
    New York
    The craft aisle in my store keeps getting bigger. The only area in the store that they seem to a leg up on is the 12 pack aisle where Kona, Redhook and Widmer and Leinie dominate square footage.
     
  • About Us

    Your go-to website for beer (since 1996), publishers of BeerAdvocate magazine (since 2006) and hosts of world-class beer events (since 2003). Respect Beer.
  • Return of the Belgian Beer Fest

    BeerAdvocate Brings its All-Belgian Fest to Portland, Maine on September 17, 2016. Tickets are on sale now.

    Learn More
  • Get the Mag

    Become a BeerAdvocate magazine print subscriber today.

    Subscribe