Bitburger Dry Hop'd Zwickl (collaboration with Deschutes)

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Cstamp3084, Apr 7, 2022.

  1. Cstamp3084

    Cstamp3084 Initiate (76) May 3, 2020 Maryland
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    Just seen this on Facebook I’m pretty pumped. Bitburger triple hopd was one of the best beers I ever had.
    https://www.bitburger.com/beers/collaborations/bitburger-dry-hopd-zwickl/
     
  2. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (8,045) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
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    I'd love to try that!
     
  3. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,373) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Never saw the Triple Hopd around here (or the Bit Okto), but I'll keep an eye open for the collab.

    Only trouble is, quite a few small locals are making good Zwickel & Kellers that I may never think to look for the Bit/Deschutes.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    It appears this beer will in the “4 PACK OF 16.9 oz Can” format.

    Is this a new, upcoming format for German beers?

    Cheers!

    @Snowcrash000
     
  5. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,037) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    It was a very nice lager that managed to elegantly straddle German tradition and modern approaches. I was able to get one case at Costco and it was a real delight.

    I'm optimistic that this one will hit a similar note of balance between the legacy of quality and the novelty of modernity
     
  6. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (4,409) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    Looks like it will be in 12oz cans in Germany, just like Triple Hop'd Lager was. I also suspect that it will be available in single cans only, again, just like Triple Hop'd Lager was. A 4-pack of cans would indeed be a new format for Germany, which is why I highly doubt that they will use this format.

    https://www.bitburger.de/dry-hopd-zwickl/

    I really enjoyed the Triple Hop'd Lager though, looking forward to this.
     
  7. Providence

    Providence Crusader (790) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
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  8. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (4,409) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    I just realized that this has been available in Germany since the beginning of the year already, bought a can today and it's indeed available as singles.

    Best-by date of two years, btw... While this is still mostly anecdotal at this point, I think there has been a trend towards even longer best-by dates than we already have in Germany since the pandemic.
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    That is absolutely crazy!
    A result of business pressure from the beer retailers?

    Cheers!
     
  10. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (4,409) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    That would be my guess.
     
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  11. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,037) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    We got triple hopd in cases of 12 oz cans (I think they were actually the slightly smaller size, 11.2 oz?). I hope to see this in th3 same format
     
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  12. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (4,409) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    The German size is 11.6 oz (0.33l).
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    330 ml (0.33l) is 11.2 ounces.

    Cheers!
     
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  14. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,373) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    11.16?
     
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  15. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,426) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Looks like Imperial ounce vs US ounce.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (4,409) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    Hmm, yes, the conversion tool I used was set to "fluid ounce (imperial)" instead of "fluid ounce (US)" by default :flushed:.

    EDIT:
    Yep.
     
  17. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,880) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    Surprised you'd want to try this one given the hop profile.
     
  18. BeerVikingSailor

    BeerVikingSailor Meyvn (1,135) Nov 19, 2009 Ohio
    Trader

    I have had quite a number of German beers in this size can (16.9 oz / 1/2 liter) for a while now - do not think this is anything new.
     
  19. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (4,409) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    I believe Jack was refering to the 4-pack packaging here, which is pretty much non-existant in Germany.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    startingatBeer-30 and Cstamp3084 like this.
  21. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,373) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I'd try it because I keep an open mind. :slight_smile:

    Sometimes a brewer will find just the right balance of hops -- never know.
     
  22. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,426) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    US label (left side "contents" enhanced for legibility)
    [​IMG]
     
  23. BruChef

    BruChef Initiate (180) Nov 8, 2009 New York

    Will this be distro’d beyond Deschutes’ footprint?
     
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  24. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,426) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    It is being imported by Bitburger's US importer, St. Killians, so should be available in markets that get the other Bitburger beers.
    https://stkillian.com/beers/bitburger-braugruppe/
    (See also the fine print in the label above in that tough to read yellow font).

    St. Killian's also imported the previous Bitburger collaboration with Sierra Nevada.
     
  25. Cstamp3084

    Cstamp3084 Initiate (76) May 3, 2020 Maryland
    Trader

    My bitburger distributor that covers Washington dc and Maryland posted on facebook today that they will start shipping this to stores next week.
     
  26. BeerVikingSailor

    BeerVikingSailor Meyvn (1,135) Nov 19, 2009 Ohio
    Trader

    Not how I read his post - it was not specific to Germany, just mentioned packaging of German beers......the 1/2 liter canned format for German beer here in the US is not that new or unusual
     
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  27. guinness77

    guinness77 Poo-Bah (2,069) Jan 6, 2014 New York
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    Was gonna say that before I saw your post. I see Bitburger, DAB, Kostritzer, Krombacher, Veltins, etc all in half-liter, 4-pack cans around me. Mostly the German bottles are in 11.2oz format (330ml) and the Triple Hop’d was 11.2oz cans, but in 6-packs.

    Saying that, pumped up to try to get this. I’m happy it’s outside Deschutes’ footprint because I’ll actually have a chance to find this.
     
  28. zid

    zid Poo-Bah (1,726) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    I am going to guess that 4 pack 16.9oz/500ml cans are the second most popular bottle/can package style for German imports behind 6 pack 11.2oz bottles. Perhaps there aren't many in your area, but they are very popular here. I have heard that German brewers/importers view this packaging as very desirable due to its success in the marketplace. It's probably more common to see regular Bitburger in 4 packs of cans than 6 packs of bottles. Note that the price per ounce that American craft brewers typically gravitate to with 4 packs of 16oz cans isn't analogous to the typical price per ounce of German 4 packs of 500ml cans.
     
  29. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    No, I have seen this format. My recent German brewed beer purchase (a month ago) was Jever in the four-pack/16.9 ounce can format.
    I think it is interesting that the German breweries have decided to package in the four-pack/big can format. I am guessing solely for the US export market? If these lead to greater sales this is a wise move for these German businesses.

    Chris, do you have any idea whether the four-pack/big cans is for other export markets (e.g., UK)?

    Cheers!
     
  30. jonphisher

    jonphisher Meyvn (1,205) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
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    I would like to try this if I see it around here. Deschutes Chasin' Freshies this year was a collab with Bitburger as well and it was very enjoyable. They used a Bitburger developed hop in it I believe, cool to see them collab in the reverse way with this beer it appears.
     
  31. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    More specifically it is a proprietary blend of German hops.

    Prost!
     
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  32. Crusader

    Crusader Disciple (361) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden

    I imagine it comes down to protecting margins. If they packaged the beer in six packs it would be the equivalent of an 8 pack of 11.2oz bottles, with a price to match unless they want to reduce their margins. By packaging it in a four pack of 16.9oz cans they can either price it as an import six pack, or as a "super premium" import six pack with the consumer having a harder time doing the math on the price per oz (it is not my impression that American stores typically provide per-oz/per liter price comparisons, which is mandatory in the EU afaik, it is in Sweden at least).
     
  33. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Patrik, as far as I can tell a 'typical' US beer consumer can't (or doesn't care?) do the math here. The four-pack/16 ounce can format seems to be their preferred format for beers like Juicy/Hazy IPAs and they pay 'top dollar' here (e.g., > 16 bucks with some even greater than 20 bucks); the fact they are getting a lesser amount in comparison to the six-pack (8 fewer ounces) seems to make no never-mind to them. I personally refuse to pay > 16 bucks for a four-pack but I am very much in the minority here.

    From memory I paid $10.99 for my four-pack/16.9 ounce cans of Jever. This pack was about 6 months old and is the freshest I have seen Jever at my local beer retailers in 2-3 years. I am uncertain what I paid for my last six-pack (12 ounce bottles) of Jever but since that was 2+ years ago it was likely less than 10 bucks (accounting for inflation over the past few years).

    If the German breweries (and the importers/wholesalers and retailers) are able to command higher prices for the four-pack/16.9 ounce format that is a business win but I suspect the bigger 'issue' here is providing beer in big cans since that is what the typical craft beer consumer wants.

    I still try my best to just purchase beer in the six-pack/12 ounce format and I am fairly successful here at the moment but it is an increasingly challenging battle. Maybe in a couple of years I will have to just drink homebrewed beer (which I package in 12 ounce bottles).

    Cheers!

    P.S. I will send you a PM with a link to my two most recent articles on the topic of lager brewing.
     
  34. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,037) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    I don't know about everywhere, but where I live $/oz is common on the shelf tag for the item
     
  35. Crusader

    Crusader Disciple (361) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden

    There go my prejudices out the window :stuck_out_tongue:. I've gotten the impression stores in the US need not even post prices on the shelf, let alone comparative prices, whether that be a function of the size of the store, or state legislation. Along with the state taxes being added at the counter as opposed to the price tag on the shelf. It all seems very confusing to an outsider. But I appreciate the information.
     
  36. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,037) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    Ya I'm not sure, it's definitely not mandatory. The grocery stores tend to be the ones that have it while the liquor stores have a lot more variability including some that don't post any prices.

    And knowing this country, I'm guessing that the rules and habits vary wildly from state to state
     
  37. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Yup, every state has differing laws here.

    The typical beer retailer in Pennsylvania is a Beer Distributor (I often add the word "Retail" in front of this term in BA posts to mitigate confusion). At my local Beer Distributor not only do they not list the price per ounce it is not unusual on some of the shelving to not even list a price for the 4/6 pack. I have to bring the product to the cashier and request a price check and after I hear the high price I bring the 4/6 pack back to the shelf.

    Cheers!
     
  38. Crusader

    Crusader Disciple (361) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden

    Some price comparisons. In Germany Jever might be able to charge say 13 Euro per case of 20 50cl bottles, or about 65 cents per 50cl, in Sweden it's around 1.8 USD per 50cl (with our high alcohol taxation and VAT), in the US it's around 2.72 USD per 50 cl as per your information. Aside from shipping costs and margins for shipping companies, importers and retailers I imagine that beer imports to the US are quite profitable for a brewery such as Jever/Radeberger Gruppe. The only real problem for German brands in the current market is that the volumes are comparatively small, and even if they would significantly reduce their prices the potential increase in volume would not make up for this loss in margins. The US import beer market is much too dominated by Mexican beer at the moment for that to be a viable strategy. It's better to compensate for limited volumes by a higher price per oz/liter/hectoliter.

    A 16 dollar four pack would be the equivalent of a 4.5 USD 50 cl can, a 20 USD four pack the equivalent of 5.6 USD per 50 cl can. I do believe that a minority of beer drinkers participate in this part of the beer market, akin to the pareto principle, for whom price may not be an object, but they are indeed a minority. The majority of the beer market consists of the 6 pack, 12 pack, 24 pack and 30 pack buyers, for whom the import 6 pack prices do constitute a price premium, and for whom the importers attempt to present an appealing price and margin mix with these four packs, imo.
     
    #38 Crusader, Apr 8, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
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  39. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,429) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Yes, that is indeed a minority of the overall beer market (where Bud Light is the top selling beer in the US). But if you solely consider the craft beer market I would be interested in what percentage of that sub-market is willing to pay these sorts of prices. A nickname on BA is Haze Bros for those beer consumers who demand their beers in the four-pack/16 ounce can format and who are more than willing to pay > 16 bucks for a four pack. As a point of example in another post I made today I provided a link to the beer available for sale at Tired Hands:

    https://www.tiredhands.com/generalstore/beers

    For the Juicy/Hazy hoppy beers the prices are $18/$20/$22/$24. When I periodically meet a friend at the Fermentaria for draft beer & food I see many customers walking out with multiple four-packs (and even some cases - 6 four-packs). There is no doubt these folks are the minority of the overall beer market but as regards the craft beer sub-market I wonder.

    Cheers!
     
  40. zid

    zid Poo-Bah (1,726) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    No idea. Looking at it from a different angle, 4 packs of cans are also currently a popular format in the US for Polish brewers. Keep in mind that I have no sales figures here. I am mainly making comments based on what I observe on the shelves. I should add that I'm not even considering 12 or 24 packs in this.
    We don't do the math. :wink: US brewers have used this to their benefit... by packaging beers differently to avoid certain product comparisons while strengthening others ("this is this type of beer... and not this type"). In my mind, I imagine many US craft consumers tend to differentiate beer based on packaging types.

    What's interesting is that things are a bit different for the imports based on their container size differences. For a typical US brewer - a 6 pack of 12oz bottles = 72 ounces... while a 4 pack of 16oz cans = 64 ounces (a difference of 8 ounces between the two... which is half a can and not insignificant). But since typical German bottles are bit smaller and cans are bit bigger - you get this: a 6 pack of 11.2oz bottles = 67.2 ounces... while a 4 pack of 16.9oz cans = 67.6 ounces (the differences between them are negligible). The result of this is that it's easy to compare the price per ounce for the same beer in cans vs bottles. Around here, the cans are usually cheaper than the bottles by a few bucks... and yet, brewers are moving to this format. It appears that the sales differences are more appealing than the margin differences.

    As far as price range, Schneider is on the higher end - I've seen 4 packs of their Helle Weisse for $13... and $17 for Aventinus (and as high as $22 in the expensive shops). The cheapest I've seen is König at $4.50 (and that happens to be my favorite brand in the Fernsehpils segment). The US craft like-to-like approach backfires when comparing a 4 pack of König for $4.50 to a local pilsner for $15 that is either undated, that I don't like as much, or a new beer that I don't want to take a chance on. On the higher price end, a beer as reliably good as Aventinus looks like a frickin' bargain against an equally priced local German-inspired US offering.

    In my limited experience, grocery stores go as far as to display the cost per oz/pint... big beer stores and chains just have a price... and small shops might not even list a price. Keep in mind this is New York, and the laws regarding what kinds of stores can even sell beer vary drastically in neighboring states. @Crusader - It all seems very confusing to the insiders too. :slight_smile: