BJCP certified or higher judges only: Bottle Conditioning Poll

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Jul 31, 2019.

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Approximately what percentage of entries you have judged do you think were bottle conditioned?

Poll closed Aug 7, 2019.
  1. 1-10%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. 11-20%

    28.6%
  3. 21-30%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 31-40%

    28.6%
  5. 41-50%

    14.3%
  6. 51-60%

    14.3%
  7. 61-70%

    14.3%
  8. 71-80%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 81-90%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 91-100%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (2,030) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    This poll is for BJCP Certified, National, Master, or Grand Master judges only. Please don't vote if you aren't. Also, it would be helpful if you acknowledge in a post that you indeed hold one of those ranks. TIA.
     
    jimboothdesigns likes this.
  2. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (239) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I haven't answered yet because I'm trying to understand the intent of the question. It's hard to estimate how many were bottle conditioned. If the entrant bottle conditions but is very careful about eliminating trub, they can seem like bottled straight from a keg. Do you want my guesstimate based on sediment or haze or fill level, or based on my general impression of how many people I think are kegging vs. bottle conditioning, or.... ?

    David M. Taylor
    Certified #A0511
     
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (2,030) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Thanks for asking an important clarifying question. The former please, i.e. your guesstimate based on what you see.
     
  4. Push_the_limits

    Push_the_limits Initiate (60) Feb 8, 2018 Antarctica

    You only want certain people to vote, but are currently hiding the results from people who don't vote.
     
  5. riptorn

    riptorn Zealot (536) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    A the bottom of the poll it says "Your vote will be publicly visible.", so my guess is there are no votes yet.
    Also, most polls I've seen on BA display the results (if you haven't voted) when clicking "View Results", which currently indicates zero votes.
     
  6. Push_the_limits

    Push_the_limits Initiate (60) Feb 8, 2018 Antarctica

    Thank you, I am corrected.
     
  7. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (239) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Thank you. I was voter #2. Not sure you'll get a hell of a lot of votes around here, or might take a while. Good luck.
     
  8. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (777) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    Certified, scored National, too lazy to do the extra work for the title.

    Knowing that you know your shit on polls and statistics you've probably already factored for this. One thing to consider is specific styles that are better bottle conditioned. Specifically Belgians, Saison, B Weisse, Hefeweisse, that either need the higher carbonation level and/or traditionally served mit hefe. If there is a judge who tends to focus on judging these styles, the percentage will be skewed towards more bottle conditioned beers.
     
    SuperWhip, JackHorzempa and dmtaylor like this.
  9. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (599) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    Jerry McMahan, Certified E0760.

    As noted, it largely depends on the style. I'm not sure that I've ever encountered a Belgian style entry that wasn't bottle conditioned (not a decent one anyway). Lagers and IPA's are a different story, very seldom bottle conditioned.
     
    jbakajust1 and utahbeerdude like this.
  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,903) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Society

    Voted.
    Jeff Rankert National A0843
     
  11. MCHop

    MCHop Initiate (0) Dec 24, 2006 New York

    Will Gardiner - Certified E0982
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  12. IronLover

    IronLover Poo-Bah (2,037) Apr 17, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Certified Judge. Honestly, my vote was a wild ass guess. My experience has been that half of the entries that I'e judged that were bottled from a keg lost points for being under carbonated.
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (2,030) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Looks like a mean (rounded) of 34%-43%, and a median of 31%-40%. Total range possible in this data is 11%-70%. I'm off to pull some data from NHC 2018 gold winner's recipes for comparison (2019 wasn't up yet when I looked recently), and I will follow up with a new post after that.

    Thanks to all who took the time to think and contribute!
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (2,030) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Okay, I looked at the 28 NHC 2018 gold medal winners (beer only) posted on the AHA site. Of those 28, 7 did not specify a carbonation method. Of the remaining 21...

    17 (81%) were force carbonated
    2 (10%) were bottle conditioned
    1 (5%) was spunded
    1 (5%) was primed in the keg

    Coupled with the BJCP judge data from the poll above, I can't say with certainty that the percentage of NHC gold winners that bottle conditioned is lower than the percentage of competition entries at large that are bottle conditioned, but if I had to bet a paycheck one way or the other, I would go that way. I'd be very surprised if the actual percentage of competition entries at large that are bottle conditioned is something less than 30%.

    For those interested, here's the breakdown on the non-force carbonated winners from the NHC results:

    Bottle conditioned: Belgian Golden Strong and Gueuze
    Spunded: American Pale Ale
    Primed in Keg: Berliner Weisse
     
    jimboothdesigns likes this.
  15. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (239) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I wouldn't be surprised at all. My estimate in this poll is consistent with the result you got for the golds: approximately 10-15%. Any way you slice it. Hence my question early on. While I think a lot of people (maybe 30-40%) are bottle conditioning at home, in the much smaller subset of homebrewers who actually enter competitions, 85-90% are submitting bottles of their keg-conditioned beers and few are entering actual bottle-conditioned, which includes all styles, overall average. I understand that Belgians and wheats and wilds might be bottle-conditioned a little more often, but overall, yeah, people who enter comps are mostly keggers. You can tell because the bottles have near-zero sediment, and fill levels tend to be more variable and maybe a little higher on average.
     
  16. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,965) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Here's how I think about it:

    Most big comp winners are experienced brewers.
    Experienced brewers by definition brew a lot
    Most people who brew a lot keg because bottling can become, well, a bottleneck.

    Even if I accept that certain styles are better bottle conditioned (hard to test this), I suspect, on average, good examples of kegged beers have a numbers advantage over good examples of bottle conditioned beers I competition, and the numbers advantage probably overcomes the bottle-conditioning magic.

    Not a BJCP judge. Not even a good judge of character.
     
    NiceFly likes this.
  17. jmarsh123

    jmarsh123 Meyvn (1,319) Mar 31, 2010 Indiana
    Trader

    I've even seen in smaller competitions where very few are bottle conditioned. I judge a lot of wild and sour categories a lot, so my numbers would skew a bit because of that. When I judge a "clean" beer category, there are usually only 1-2 per flight that I would say are bottle conditioned.
     
    pweis909 likes this.
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