Black Note 750's: Worth Trading?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by JohnB87, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    With the release of the 4-packs of Black Note, do you think the trading value of the 750's has gone down significantly? I have a few of these and although I don't feel the need to get rid of them, it certainly would have been nice to know that Bells was releasing these in 4-packs weeks after the 750's (for the same price, nonetheless).

    I know this is being discussed in the GL forum, but as far as trading, would anybody go out of their way to trade for the large format bottles anymore?
  2. Hugonaut13

    Hugonaut13 Zealot (556) Nov 29, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Send me one! :slight_smile:
  3. JM03

    JM03 Initiate (0) Nov 12, 2010 Ohio

    For people without access to it, I'm sure they'd take it in whatever format they can get it in.
  4. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    I'm sorry, the stock price plummeted on Black Note 750s the moment the four packs were announced, you missed the boat. Now you either have to drink the beer or trade it for something reasonable. I know both these options seem insane but sometimes you have to cut your losses.
  5. tewaris

    tewaris Initiate (0) Jul 14, 2009 Minnesota

    Notice what happened with BCBS 2009 22 oz in 2012? We at BA are a silly bunch and regardless of what they tell you, size matters.
    MarkIntihar and maximum12 like this.
  6. Jparkanzky

    Jparkanzky Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2011 Ohio

    This is almost as good as all of the people complaining that they "Just bought the 750's for $23 and now the 4-packs are $23" and then when you look through their post history, you see they were already offering up the 750's for trade long before the 4-pack announcement happened.

    Bell's sold them beer, and not trade bait. Oh the horror?!
  7. pmoney

    pmoney Crusader (717) Apr 15, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    For cellaring, typically a larger format is more desirable right? I guess that's worth something.
    gpawned and pschul4 like this.
  8. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    I agree with Tewaris...if they never bottle Black Note in 750's again, these will be the golden bottles that everyone will be clamoring for in 3 years. Plus: Large format bottles age better than 12 oz. bottles, and I'm interested to see how they compare 1,2, and 3 years down the line. Meaning, I'm going to need a few to stock away for those reasons. Ohh and Breaking Bad has 30 of them he needs to dump, so YES, the value is very high. Baller Stout high :wink:
    adamdd, stxSS07, pschul4 and 4 others like this.
  9. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    Wouldn't this go completely against logic?

    If I want to see how a beer changes over 1yr, 2yr, 3yrs etc wouldn't you want a bunch of 12ozs over 750s you likely would have less of?
  10. pmoney

    pmoney Crusader (717) Apr 15, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I agree with what you're saying, but we're talking about two different things. I'm referring to the belief that a larger format bottle is better for aging due to more liquid being exposed to the same about of oxygen. It's often said that larger format bottles oxidize less quickly. For instance, that's why a lot of people prefer 750ml loons over 375ml bottles for cellaring.
    dvelcich likes this.
  11. Brez07

    Brez07 Initiate (0) Sep 29, 2009 Maine

    I think he means solely on a bottle vs. bottle basis. One 750ml is presumably better for aging than one 12oz...
  12. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    I see. There are a ton of people that age smaller format bottles, never heard about that being a negative thing before. I guess large format vs. small format aging is a topic for another thread.
  13. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    It's already been discussed and it seems that this is the consensus...
    6 L > 3 L > 1.5 L > 750 ml > 375 ml > 12 oz.
    For those lucky enough to sample a well aged Chimay or St. Bernardus from a 3 L bottle or larger will agree it's hard to beat.
  14. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    I would love to read about it, link?
  15. pmoney

    pmoney Crusader (717) Apr 15, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Sure, I age 12 oz bottles too - there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that when there's a choice between a larger or smaller bottle, typically the larger is thought to hold-up better over a long period of time and is often more desirable.
  16. Centennial

    Centennial Initiate (0) Nov 9, 2009 Vermont

    maximum12 likes this.
  17. pmoney

    pmoney Crusader (717) Apr 15, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Maybe it's all in my head :wink:
    DSlim71 and pschul4 like this.
  18. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    I don't think there is any scientific back up for those, I have just been involved in many conversations loosely based around this topic, and that was the consensus. I guess it just depends on your philosophy, because some my state that the point of aging a beer is to ALLOW oxygen in to help break down bread like flavors into nutty or toffee like, etc...To each their own, didn't mean to come off as all knowing, sorry about that.
  19. Jparkanzky

    Jparkanzky Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2011 Ohio


    I suppose if I spent $90 on a 3L bottle of Stone Double Bastard ( $0.89 per ounce) verses the $8 for the 22 ounce ( $0.36 per ounce) I would probably want to taste that 53% difference in price too.
  20. pmoney

    pmoney Crusader (717) Apr 15, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I completely agree that there's no science behind this belief and that there's no proof that a larger format is better. But even though this isn't fact, it is a common belief by many BAs. That belief alone is probably enough to make people want the larger format if they plan on cellaring it for a couple years.

    I'm impartial, and I'm just observing the fact that many BAs follow this line of thinking.
  21. Bay01

    Bay01 Aspirant (278) Nov 19, 2008 Illinois

    I think alot of people who want to get the 4-packs won't be able to get them, andthere will still be a large unsatisfied demand for Black Note. Maybe value will decline relative to the 4-packs but it will still have a high value.
  22. nc41

    nc41 Meyvn (1,494) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Price a side I prefer 12 oz bottles. I have two cabinets filled with bombers of some great beers but it's only me. To pop open a bomber of BCS is a commitment, a 12 oz is easy. But I can't see where the trade value goes down with a bigger bottle it will trade like 2 12 oz Black Notes I'd assume. There was some here, but I passed, I'm so full up on Stouts I can't stuff anymore into the cabinets.
    COBeerBuff, Hanzo and Centennial like this.
  23. Savearth

    Savearth Disciple (324) Mar 5, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I have no idea if this is a factor in aging, but it might be important to note that the 750s are corked and caged while the 12 ounce bottles are just capped. Again, I have no specific knowledge in this area, but thought it might be a consideration. Maybe, maybe not...
  24. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Savant (958) Mar 17, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    The cellaring of lambics compared to a BA stout is completely different. Oxidation is noticeable MUCH sooner in regular beers, many times initially upon release of BA beers.

    A 12oz bottle can possibly oxidize quicker. But I dont think most BA stouts improve much after a year regardless of bottle size.
    vurt and Levitation like this.
  25. LoPo87

    LoPo87 Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2012 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Were the 4 packs realeased brewery only as well? Just saw them popping up in the ISO forum and didn't read anything about them before. Thanks.
  26. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I think this situation is being overanalyzed very prematurely. We don't even have all the info about the 4-packs yet. Even though this is hitting distribution, Bells said it will be extremely limited. I'm expecting single bottle limits and such at most stores. I'll be thrilled if I get more than that.

    If it's comparable to the very first Oracle release a couple years back, I would not be surprised.
  27. codysjb

    codysjb Devotee (423) Jun 16, 2010 Prince Edward Island (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    This. Plus, the availability of four packs will raise awareness of the beer (like when Founders bottled CBS). While people wanted CBS that was handbottled before, the availability of the big bottles (and awareness on Facebook) made non BA's want it thus the trade value skyrocketed. True there will be more bottles, but there may very well be much more demand that surpasses the current supply demand ratio making the value rise.
  28. Jeffo

    Jeffo Poo-Bah (2,727) Sep 7, 2008 Netherlands

    I would prefer a larger format bottle over two 12oz bottles, as they are better for sharing. More of an event as well. I would personally be more excited about getting a large format bottle in a trade than few 12oz bottles.

  29. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    i'm amused that, with a wide release upon us, people are still scheming for ways to market black note as rare.
    Krumb, Lordkrystic, nanobrew and 2 others like this.
  30. Jeffo

    Jeffo Poo-Bah (2,727) Sep 7, 2008 Netherlands

    Didn't you read the memo?...
    codysjb likes this.
  31. Tnudish

    Tnudish Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    Personally, I enjoy the aesthetics of a 750 as opposed to 12 oz. bottles
    Flabbyjandro likes this.
  32. Kaydogg

    Kaydogg Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2011 Pennsylvania

    to the OPs question..the answer is yes.. especially if this hits distribution and more and more get out there. Supply and demand..
    In my opinion, I don't care what format its in..and Im sure people looking to finally try this fantastic beer wont care either..
    davesway10 and Gosox8787 like this.
  33. kscaldef

    kscaldef Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    If you have the same total volume of beer, I don't see what makes it any harder to share 12oz bottles.
    JohnB87 likes this.
  34. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2010 Illinois

    Remember 2008? Yeah, something like that...

    I'd continue, but I already used my routine up in the Stille Nacht Reserva 2010 thread.
  35. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    You must have your ear on the wire in California, but I don't think this release will be "wide" by any definition.
  36. COBeerBuff

    COBeerBuff Disciple (364) Jan 4, 2009 Kansas
    Beer Trader

    I love 12 oz. bottles as well when it comes to my personal consumption. As you said, opening a 22oz or 750mL means I'm committing a good portion of my night to this beer, and if I feel like having more than one, I end up stoppering one bottle and opening another. Having 12 oz of a dynamite beer is perfect when it's just me.

    When I'm sharing, that goes out the window. I love having large format bottles to share with family/friends. I also think, depending on the beer, it tastes better out of a large format bottle. For instance, Boulevard bottles its main Smokestack beers in 750mL and 12oz 4-packs. I love (read: LOVE) Sixth Glass and Long Strange Tripel out of the 750's, but it's more meh from the little guys. YMMV

    I think Bells is making the same type of decision. It's certainly going to make Black Note a much more obtainable beer, but I think the draw will be there for both bottles as long as the quality of the beer doesn't suffer. Those of us who don't have live-in's that love beer will stick to the 12oz'ers while those of you with extended beer families will probably stick with the larger bottles.
  37. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    you can stop that. we all know how it will trade.
  38. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    Having a bunch of Michigander's light up the trading forum, and a beer having a wide distribution are two different things. I don't think this beer will reach much further outside of Kalamazoo than a few hundred miles.
  39. Anonymous1

    Anonymous1 Initiate (0) Mar 19, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Broken record. We get it. You hate how midwestern shelfwhales trade. Don't you get bored regurgitating the same complaints and argument on this topic every few weeks?
  40. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    i don't see what you're getting at. right below his post is another one stating it'll go further than he claimed.

    yeah, no one knows exact counts... but it's more than the 1100 bottles that came out before, and the first concern is "omg how can i spin batch 1 trade bait" :stuck_out_tongue:

    actually, i don't hate it at all. when demand >> supply, it's an expected consequence. people forget that, at one time, beatification batch 3 and firestone 10 were wales, and were distributed. this isn't a 2012 development or even a midwest-only thing. everything has happened before, and everything will happen again.

    more than anything, i find the shelfwale thing an amusing place to snark - particularly when, as supply goes up, people try to spin it the other way.

    do i sound like i do?
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