News Blue Moon Founder Retires From MillerCoors

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by reowin, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. reowin

    reowin Initiate (113) Nov 24, 2017 Tennessee

    MillerCoors today announced that Blue Moon founder Keith Villa will depart the organization on January 5.
    https://www.brewbound.com/news/blue-moon-founder-retires-millercoors
     
    thebeers likes this.
  2. Scott17Taylor

    Scott17Taylor Meyvn (1,295) Oct 28, 2013 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    As much as I don't really care for the big guys I have to give him credit for developing blue moon. The growth of that beer has been crazy and has turned a lot of people on to better beer, and honestly it's not too bad of a beer.
     
  3. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (342) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    Woah now, let's not get too carried away there! The 2 times I year I'm at a party and end up being handed one, I'm always optimistic and then immediately let down. Some serious corners are cut to make this beer at the macro level.

    Interesting that he studied in Belgium. I have always been curious the various profit margins of beers made by the big macros... despite the cost of lagering, I imagine the material costs of Budweiser are much lower beers that are not fermented with adjuncts, not to mention hops, wheat, etc.

    ---
    Good for him though, I'd do the same in a heat beat!
     
  4. Scott17Taylor

    Scott17Taylor Meyvn (1,295) Oct 28, 2013 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    I rated it a 3.5 which to me is squarely in the happily drink it if it's free, but not buy it range of beers. I really don't see how you could think its terrible. It's not great by any means, but a wit by coors could be much worse.
     
  5. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,256) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    That sounds like it might be a less than amicable separation - Coors, after all, used to maintain a relationship with an heir to the Killian brewery in Ireland (which was sold off in the 1950s, long before Coors licensed the name) who used to do US promo appearances for their bastardized version of Killian Irish Red Ale.

    [​IMG]

    I wonder if either they or Villa will eventually drop this fiction that Villa "founded" Blue Moon Brewing Co. He was employed by Coors (even grew up in the area) predating his schooling in Belgium - which some sources have implied that Coors paid for.

    While he obviously created the Blue Moon White recipe and also did work designing that Sandlot brewery in the Denver baseball stadium that eventually changed its name to "Blue Moon" over a decade later, its really difficult to claim that an employee "founded" a brewery that was originally just another 'dba' name owned by Coors. Here's how the New York Times reported the new beer "...meant to compete against microbrewery products..." at the time:
    [​IMG]

    After F X Matt, Coors moved the contract to the Hudepohl-Schoenling brewery that Boston Beer Co. bought and was operating, and then to Coors' Memphis (the Schlitz plant they bought from Stroh, that is now run by City and the brewery for Sixpoint and several other craft brewers). After closing Memphis, they even brewed it in a Molson brewery to ship to the US.

    What also goes unmentioned in most of the stories about Villa and his Belgian White is that Pierre Celis had already opened his Texas brewery and his beer was well-distributed beyond its home state by 1995 - the same year (coincidentally?:thinking_face:) Miller Brewing Co. first bought into Celis earlier that spring.
     
    #5 jesskidden, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  6. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (9,268) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    I'm curious as to what "serious corners" you think are being cut, and how that plays "at the macro level" as opposed to a smaller level. ??? And what do you mean by "the cost of lagering"? None of what you said really makes any clear sense so I'm curious.
     
  7. Lahey

    Lahey Aspirant (287) Nov 12, 2016 Michigan

    This beer was my doorway into craft beer. From blue moon to newcastle, then on to more browns and reds... then ipas and stouts came into the picture for me. Still haven't found a love for too many sours, but my tastes were slowly opened up starting with this one. I wouldn't drink it now, but I'm glad I did then...
     
  8. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (342) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    Thanks for asking. Sometimes I get all excited and I get ahead of myself!

    I'll ask you: how is it that Allagash, from a brewery the size of a speck of dust compared to SABMiller, able to produce (by my estimate 50,000 barrels/yr of White) a Witbier that's superior to Blue Moon in every way?
    The brewers at Allagash are better (prolly not) or they have a better brewery (hell no)?
    Or BM uses cheaper ingredients (possibly because they need so much and can't be as picky), or Allagash uses batches/tanks that are size x and Blue Moon does batches that are 25x? One run of BM might rival a month or more of White (which is 75% of Allagash business). There could be yeast choices to hit a timeframe that SABMiller needs to hit for whatever reason to hit their big company margins, that a brewery like Allagash may simply not need to or care to hit.

    Cost of lagering: you have to age the beer in tanks (30 days maybe). You brew an IPA, takes half that time. Vis a vis on the same gear, all other things being equal your output on the same rig is halved for lagered beers.
     
  9. eldoctorador

    eldoctorador Zealot (544) Dec 12, 2014 California

    I disagree with this.

    Most people here on BA would choose Allagash White over Blue Moon.

    Most people outside BA (which is a much bigger group) would probably choose Blue Moon.

    This doesn't have to do with cutting corners, but rather with producing what most people want.
     
  10. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,305) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    My sister is a Blue Moon drinker, and with as many witbiers as I've introduced her to- guess what she still drinks? :wink: That beer is designed to fit that niche perfectly, it would seem.
     
  11. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (2,006) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I'm curious: do folks think Blue Moon did more to "compete with craft" or to introduce people to new styles and expand the market for craft producers?
     
    Lahey likes this.
  12. BigJim5021

    BigJim5021 Zealot (592) Sep 2, 2007 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Going purely on my own experience of working in a liquor store for the last decade I’m gonna say it’s mostly “compete with craft.” Our Blue Moon drinkers strictly drink Blue Moon. I’m sure some people have used it as a springboard to try new things, but I think most people that drink it are having it as their everyday beverage. This is obviously anecdotal and speculative on my part, but that’s all I really have to go by.
     
    meefmoff, jmdrpi, FonyBones and 3 others like this.
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,447) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Below is from the Blue Moon website:

    “The Right Blend of Ingredients and Imagination

    Blue Moon® Belgian White* was our first year-round release back in 1995.

    It started with our brewmaster, Keith Villa, wanting to craft a beer inspired by the flavorful Belgian Wits he enjoyed while studying brewing in Belgium. He brewed his interpretation using Valencia orange peel versus the traditional tart Curaçao orange peel, for a subtle sweetness, and added a touch of coriander to provide balance. Then he added oats and wheat to create a smooth, creamy finish that’s inviting to the palate. As a final touch, he garnished the beer with an orange slice to heighten the citrus aroma and taste. Its natural unfiltered appearance adds to the depth of flavors in Belgian White*.

    Available in 12-oz. bottles, 6-pack, 12-pack, 12-oz. can, 16-oz. can, Draft

    Profile

    Ingredients and Profile

    Malts: Pale, White Wheat, Oats
    Hops: Blend of Imported and Domestic
    Our Twist: Valencia Orange Peel , Coriander
    IBUs: 9
    Original Gravity: 13º Plato
    ABV: 5.4%

    Glassware

    Pour our Belgian White* into our signature Blue Moon® glass to highlight the depth of the beer. This glass opens wide at the top to make room for the aromatic citrus notes. Cap with a creamy, white head and garnish with an orange slice.

    Appearance

    Will appear cloudy because it’s unfiltered for more depth of flavor.

    Aroma

    You’ll notice a zesty orange fruitiness with a light spicy wheat aroma.

    Taste

    The flavor starts crisp and tangy and ends with a coriander and orange spiciness. The Valencia orange peel gives a subtle sweetness to the beer.

    Mouthfeel

    The oats give the beer a nice creamy body, so it’s not too thin.

    Finish

    Our Belgian White* has a slow finish of coriander and orange spiciness.”

    https://www.bluemoonbrewingcompany.com/our-beers/belgian-wheat-white-beer

    I do not have sufficient insight into the prices that MillerCoors pays for the above ingredients but permit me to further discuss the design choices that Keith Villa made to brew Blue Moon.

    Grains

    Witbier as it was brewed in Belgium would have grain bill of Continental Pilsner Malt and raw wheat. Some of the breweries may have used a little bit of oats too.

    Keith Villa made a decision to used Pale Ale malt vs. Continental Pilsner Malt. It is unclear from the above whether the White Wheat listed is raw wheat or malted wheat. He did decide to use some oats, likely to provide more of a silky mouthfeel as is detailed above.

    Hops

    Witbier as it was brewed in Belgium would have used European hops (e.g., noble hops). There is insufficient detail provided by Blue Moon to really know what they are using for hops. Needless to say but using American (Domestic) hops would not have been used in Belgium ‘back in the day’ to brew a Witbier.

    Spicing

    Witbier as it was brewed in Belgium would have classically used a combination of curacao orange peel (bitter orange peel) and coriander. It was not unheard of for some Belgian breweries to utilize other spices such as grains of paradise.

    The above write-up seems clear to me on why Keith Villa decided to use Valencia orange peel: “He brewed his interpretation using Valencia orange peel versus the traditional tart Curaçao orange peel, for a subtle sweetness…” He wanted a sweeter expression in this beer which is likely more appealing to the more ‘mainstream’ beer drinker.

    Yeast

    There is no mention of yeast strain selection but I have read where folks have stated that a neutral ale yeast strain is used to ferment Blue Moon. A neutral yeast strain will add little additional yeast derived flavor to Blue Moon.

    I have brewed many Witbiers using Wyeast 3944 which is reportedly the Hoegaarden/ Celis White yeast strain. That yeast strain is not neutral. Below is how Wyeast describes this yeast strain on their website:

    “This strain produces a complex flavor profile dominated by spicy phenolics with low to moderate ester production. It is a great strain choice when you want a delicate clove profile not to be overshadowed by esters. It will ferment fairly dry with a slightly tart finish that compliments the use of oats, malted and unmalted wheat.”

    It is entirely possible that one of Keith Villa’s motivations in designing Blue Moon was to be economically responsible but I would suggest that even more important to him was to craft a beer that would not be too bold and have some sweetness to it. The sort of beer that an AAL beer drinker might enjoy drinking.

    Just my thoughts.

    Cheers!
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,447) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    I would guess that most of the folks who enjoy Blue Moon were previously AAL drinkers that for a variety of reasons decided to try something different (i.e., Blue Moon). If a beer like Blue Moon (or something akin to it) was not on the market those folks would more likely be drinking mainstream beers (e.g., AAL beers) vs. the more bold craft beers.

    At a certain level I would think that a Blue Moon drinker is akin to a Yuengling Lager or Fat Tire drinker. They want something different from Bud/Budlight, Coors/Coors Light,... but not a beer like SNPA either.

    Cheers!
     
    Bitterbill, meefmoff, Lucular and 5 others like this.
  15. Lahey

    Lahey Aspirant (287) Nov 12, 2016 Michigan

    I think they've had more people go from coors and bud to craft beer through trying their beer than craft drinkers who leave their favorites behind to drink blue moon. Of course they're trying to compete with craft. I'm sure at some chain restaurants they're successful in this due to their huge dirstributing footprint. But in the liquor stores, craft is king when you look for wit beers.
     
    thebeers likes this.
  16. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,139) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Man... so not all beers are lagered. Some may be, and some may be bulk conditioned. I doubt blue moon sees 30 days of bulk aging. Also, adjuncts refer to fermentables other than barley used in a beer. Witbiers traditionally use wheat and sometimes oats. Budweiser uses rice. Coors uses corn. I'm assuming you mean flavor adding ingredients like orange peel. Blue moon has more flavored iterations than sculpin. You also mentioned maybe coors isn't picky about their ingredients. Nothing could be further from the truth. Coors uses grains grown locally, and while they may buy from one farmer yhis year, if the barley doesn't pass inspection next year they will pass on it.
    I'm not sure what you're getting on about here, but just because you don't like the beer doesn't mean they "cut corners" to make it.
     
    McMatt7, DonicBoom, Norica and 9 others like this.
  17. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,256) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    Blue Moon Belgian White is the largest selling "craft beer" in the US according to IRI data (which does not use the Brewers Association definition of "craft") and unlike many of the other best-selling craft beers (SNPA, SABL, NBFT) Blue Moon sales are up this year.

    The entire Blue Moon line sells over 2m bbl/yr, making it larger than every "craft" brewer other than Yuengling and BBC. As far as "wit" beers go in the US, the only challenger to Blue Moon sales are the 600k bbl of AB's Shock Top sold (and those have been down the last few years).
     
    Bitterbill, DonicBoom, Ranbot and 3 others like this.
  18. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (824) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    The following two quotes sum up my feeling about what you've said very well:

    Blue Moon tastes exactly how it's supposed to taste. As does Allagash White. No corners are cut in the manufacture of either beer. They are simply for two different audiences.
     
    ilikebeer03, Ranbot, wspscott and 3 others like this.
  19. meanmutt

    meanmutt Meyvn (1,008) Feb 6, 2012 Ohio
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Blue Moon isn't bad at all. In fact, I often prefer it over the local IPA options that are on tap at chain restaurants like O'Charleys.

    I've have too many stale or off tasting IPA's at chains like that. I'm assuming it's because nobody orders IPA's at those places so the kegs sit on tap forever. I guess it could also be that they don't properly clean the lines...but the Blue Moon always tastes fine.
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  20. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (1,836) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I think it was created to appeal to a wide audience while selling as a premium. They succeeded and in fact compete with both craft and AAL.
     
  21. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (824) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Actually, I think it did neither. I think that it appeals to AAL drinkers that are a little more adventurous or people who don't like AAL, but aren't adventurous enough to take the full dive into actual craft beer. The proliferation of these "witbiers" is a thing unto itself, IMO. Not really AAL and not really craft. I do think, however, that their sales have taken more away from AAL sales than they have from craft sales. Drinking Blue Moon just doesn't produce a whole lot of cross-over craft drinkers, from what I've seen.
     
    meefmoff, thebeers and TongoRad like this.
  22. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,580) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Man sitting here reading this just realized that this was probably my gateway beer. When I was drinking wine exclusively years ago I would meet my friends at a dive bar and just couldn't handle Bud Lite any more (my old beer before wine), they always had Blue Moon & Shock Top on tap and I would drink the hell out of it. Never could drink much Shock Top, for some reason that yeast gave me hell
     
    thebeers likes this.
  23. WesMantooth

    WesMantooth Poo-Bah (2,345) Jan 8, 2014 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    Around 2005 I was drinking mostly imports (good and bad European lagers) and it was the main beer that led to me experimenting and learning more about the American “craft” beer scene.
     
    SFACRKnight and thebeers like this.
  24. Lucular

    Lucular Meyvn (1,465) Jun 20, 2014 Maryland
    Beer Trader

    Blue Moon was my first beer and as I was getting into beer I probably drank the equivalent of a few 12-packs of regular Blue Moon and variants over a 12-month time frame before moving exclusively to craft beer. That said, since I skipped the AAL/college drinking phase I guess that makes Blue Moon a gateway beer for me into craft but not a cross-over bridge.

    And for the record, I still enjoy a Blue Moon every now and then (when it's free of course). :wink:
     
  25. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Crusader (790) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    There’s a few things I like about blue moon. Its cheap, available, and a great introduction to craft!

    Then there are things I don’t...
    First, Keith. I’ve met the guy a couple of times and seen interviews from him. He just comes off as a douche. Sorry. Maybe he’s the coolest guy in the world if you get to know him. But when you hear him talk, he makes it sound like he invented craft beer, and I suspect deep down, there’s a part of him that believes that...

    Second, blue moon is not a very good beer. It doesn’t begin to stack up against the best in the style. It singlehandedly created that orange wedge ridiculousness that we are still dealing with today, and, if I remember correctly, it doesn’t even use a Belgian wheat strain. I’ve heard it’s just a neutral American ale yeast because they were afraid a proper stain would be too polarizing for their target customers. Nice.

    Third, it is the poster child of the obnoxious method certain breweries use to try to con customers into thinking that an independent brewery is making a product. Not exclusive to, but most notably done my BMC.

    Regardless, happy trails, Keith! Hope you find what you are looking for!
     
    WadeBridgman and EvenMoreJesus like this.
  26. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (824) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    He's a douche and you're certainly not the first person to say that. Blue Moon is not Hoegaarden and he's not Pierre Celis.
     
  27. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,447) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Yup, I have heard/read the same thing as I posted above:

    "Yeast

    There is no mention of yeast strain selection but I have read where folks have stated that a neutral ale yeast strain is used to ferment Blue Moon. A neutral yeast strain will add little additional yeast derived flavor to Blue Moon.

    I have brewed many Witbiers using Wyeast 3944 which is reportedly the Hoegaarden/ Celis White yeast strain. That yeast strain is not neutral. Below is how Wyeast describes this yeast strain on their website:

    “This strain produces a complex flavor profile dominated by spicy phenolics with low to moderate ester production. It is a great strain choice when you want a delicate clove profile not to be overshadowed by esters. It will ferment fairly dry with a slightly tart finish that compliments the use of oats, malted and unmalted wheat.”

    Maybe next time you meet Keith you can confirm this?

    Cheers!
     
  28. eldoctorador

    eldoctorador Zealot (544) Dec 12, 2014 California

    are you sure about the orange wedge? I thought Widmer started that in the US, and also I've had Hefes served in Germany with that.
     
  29. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Crusader (790) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    I recall an interview where he portrayed its invention as his ‘eureka’ moment and talked about personally going bar-to-bar with a bin of orange wedges, telling bartenders how to serve his beer (presumably because Coors couldn’t afford any nicer PoS items, haha).

    Who knows, though? Maybe this is just another thing Keith ‘invented’ like craft beer? :wink:
     
  30. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Crusader (790) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Unlikely to meet the guy again, as we both (as of today) are no longer in the positions that brought us together previously. :grin:

    Maybe it was in ‘Brewing with Wheat’ that I read it? My copy is at home, otherwise I’d look it up.
     
  31. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,447) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    I found the below information on a howbrewtalk thread; information courtesy of a person that brewed at the Sandlot brewery in the 90’s:

    “I worked for Coors as the Brewmaster of SandLot Brewery from 1995-1997.

    I signed a non-disclosure/non-compete agreement that was good for one year after I left their employment. I asked about this situation when I was hired. I was told that nothing really stays secret in the industry for over a year.

    The Blue Moon Recipe is pretty much the same as many other wit beers as far as the percentage of grains. Keith has mentioned the Valencia oranges in interviews. He also talked about using Hallertauer Mittlefrueh hops and ale yeast.

    I am not giving away any trade secrets. The only thing really new is the ratio of corriander to orange peel. That is based on my work with the recipe post SandLot. I changed it a bit when I brewed it at the pubs I worked in after I left Coors.

    I did not brew for over a year after I parted with Coors. I worked for Five Star as Director of Brewery Services. I did honor my non-disclosure/non-compete agreement.

    What the recipe is now, I have no idea. What I posted above is how it was made 13 years ago.”

    And:

    “Blue Moon Belgian White was first sold commercially as Belly Slide Belgian White at the SandLot Brewery at Coors Field during the 1995 opening season.

    We did do a little fine tuning of the recipe, which was developed by Dr. Keith Villa of Coors R&D. Mostly to do with the ratio of Orange Peel to Corriander.

    The amounts of grains we used are roughly:
    50% 2 row pale malt. (The first couple of batches were made with Great Western)
    40% white wheat malt
    10% flaked oats.

    Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops were added for a 90 minute boil. Bittering should be around 17.5 IBU. Only one addition.

    Blue Moon has always used pre-ground corriander and Valencia orange peel. Keith did not want the bitterness of Curacao oranges. He preferred the sweetness of the ground Valencia.

    Try 1.25 tsp of ground corriander added to the kettle 10 minutes before the end of boil. This is for a 5-6 gallon batch.

    Add 0.33tsp of ground Valencia orange peel 5 minutes before the end of boil.

    The Chico strain would work well in this recipe. You want a neutral taste from the yeast. Keith has said that the flavors that should come through are the orange peel and corriander, not the yeast.

    Be careful when lautering. I have made this recipe and some variations of it in three different pubs, with three different systems. I usually have trouble and end up sticking the mash. Run off very slowly.”

    https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/blue-moon-clone.65328/



    A few observations concerning the above:

    Wayne did not mention a specific yeast strain per se but his statement of “The Chico strain would work well in this recipe. You want a neutral taste from the yeast. Keith has said that the flavors that should come through are the orange peel and corriander, not the yeast.” confirms that a Belgian Wit strain is not used to ferment Blue Moon.

    Wayne stated: “40% white wheat malt”. Using wheat malt vs. raw wheat is not typical for the Belgian Wit style. Another change made to soften the flavor profile?

    Cheers!
     
    donspublic and JohnnyChicago like this.
  32. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (342) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    I guess agree to disagree. If you put Allagash White in front of people they prefer it over BM.

    Allagash isn't sold outside the NE and Mid-Atlantic, so it would be more correct to say "most people outside those states have never even heard of it, much less would choose it over BM."
     
  33. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (824) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Are we talking blind tasting here or two bottles with labels on them?

    Allagash has a wider distribution footprint than you think. They also have an excellent reputation. You'd be surprised at how many people know who Allagash is.
     
  34. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Poo-Bah (4,808) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania

    When I used to occasionally read Peter King's MMQB column, he'd often mention Allagash White as a beer he liked. Sports Illustrated has (had?) millions of readers.
     
    #34 jmdrpi, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
    drtth and EvenMoreJesus like this.
  35. meefmoff

    meefmoff Disciple (351) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I'm not a fan of witbiers in general but if pushed I might say that Blue Moon was the one I've liked the most. Perhaps because it's simply less assertive in the characteristics that I don't care for than other "truer" examples of the style are.
     
  36. meefmoff

    meefmoff Disciple (351) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    My experience is even more anecdotal but I have two friends who only drink AALs and crafty macros. They're actually fairly willing to try new crafty macros (they were very excited about Shock Top as an alternative to Blue Moon), but they almost never venture outside of that arena into things not made by the big national brands.

    I cant say for sure obviously but it feels to me like they are not terribly unusual.
     
    thebeers, TongoRad and EvenMoreJesus like this.
  37. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,305) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Yeah, what was said up thread about the neutral yeast makes sense in that regard. That must be what people are picking up on; or not, as the case may be.
     
    meefmoff likes this.
  38. meefmoff

    meefmoff Disciple (351) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    That is indeed the character that kept me off Belgians for quite a long time. Thankfully thanks to BA I've learned that the darker Belgian ales often keep that flavor in check so I've discovered the glory of things like St. Bernardus 12 even if I still don't care for most of the lighter stuff.
     
    jmdrpi and TongoRad like this.
  39. BigJim5021

    BigJim5021 Zealot (592) Sep 2, 2007 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    AAL drinkers that “treat themselves” to Blue Moon (or Shock Top, Leinie’s, etc.) on the weekends are very common amongst our customers.
     
    meefmoff, JackHorzempa and TongoRad like this.
  40. eldoctorador

    eldoctorador Zealot (544) Dec 12, 2014 California

    I think you may be right, I probably have my stories mixed up