Bottling NEIPA?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by TBonez477, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. TBonez477

    TBonez477 Defender (603) Jan 15, 2015 Vermont
    Trader

    I'm planning my first all grain brew, a NEIPA and looking for some reassurance or direction. I don't have a kegging setup so bottling is my only choice. Is bottling a NEIPA a terrible idea? What kind of flavor, aroma and freshness impact should I expect? Will I be disappointed with my results regardless? Basically should I just go spend the money or give it a shot? Thanks in advance!
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    @TBonez477, do you avoid purchasing commercially brewed bottled/canned 'NEIPA' beers? Do you solely drink commercially brewed 'NEIPA' beers on draft?

    Cheers!
     
  3. TBonez477

    TBonez477 Defender (603) Jan 15, 2015 Vermont
    Trader

    No, I don't avoid them. However, it is very rare at least in my area to see a NEIPA in a bottle. The general consensus that I've read is that freshness isn't as well preserved in bottles. My biggest concern is that I won't know how to judge the success of my first all grain brew if this is a known detractor. I'd like to hear from anyone who has bottled AND kegged the style and any impacts they perceived.
     
  4. runbirddrinkbeer

    runbirddrinkbeer Initiate (150) Oct 24, 2009 Florida

    There _is_ the potential for increased oxidation and resultant degradation of end product but there are a number of homebrewers on this forum who successfully bottle NEIPAs. I've bottled 3 batches and keg now, however with careful technique you should be fine.
     
  5. TBonez477

    TBonez477 Defender (603) Jan 15, 2015 Vermont
    Trader

    Any technique tips you can share? Do you purge individual bottles?
     
  6. runbirddrinkbeer

    runbirddrinkbeer Initiate (150) Oct 24, 2009 Florida

    Also, canned, bottled, whatever drink them young, neipa as well as most hop forward beers don't generally prosper with age.
     
  7. runbirddrinkbeer

    runbirddrinkbeer Initiate (150) Oct 24, 2009 Florida

    I didn't ( maybe I should have, lol), I didn't have gas available before I went to Kegging.
    In general minimize splashing, oxygen exposure as much as possible. Rack carefully.
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    If you have the ability to keg and conduct closed transfers that would be worthwhile here.

    I bottle my 'NEIPA' beers and that 'worked' just fine. I should caveat that I drank those beers promptly but I do that for all of the hoppy beers that I brew.

    Cheers!
     
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  9. runbirddrinkbeer

    runbirddrinkbeer Initiate (150) Oct 24, 2009 Florida

    Agreed...my bottled NEIPA batches were a bit uneven, and that indirectly led me to seek out kegging. Perhaps others, @SFACRKnight ? Could add technique info.
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    What specific issues/problems did you experience here?

    Cheers!
     
  11. runbirddrinkbeer

    runbirddrinkbeer Initiate (150) Oct 24, 2009 Florida

    Whether it was beginner's luck or not, my first attempt(bottled)with a restrained grainbill, @1.055 OG, came out the best, juicy and not appreciably oxidized. Subsequent batch 2 and 3 had more robust grainbills and higher hopping rates and by batch 3, my brewing "skill" must have been overmatched by the potential pitfalls of the style. Obvious oxidation. The dreaded purple cardboard tasting beer, LOL. I drank it anyway. This was 2015.
    It was a frustrating experience.....enter kegging, stage left.
     
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  12. deadwolfbones

    deadwolfbones Initiate (70) Jun 21, 2014 Oregon

    I bottled my only hazy thus far directly from the fermenter, which wasn't opened post-2nd day dry hop. It was great for a couple weeks and then turned mud brown in the bottle almost overnight. Not good.
     
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  13. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,245) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    I just try to minimize splashing. I use an auto siphon and don't purge or anything like that.
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    Hmm, I have never experienced that. I did note that the hop aroma faded after some time in the bottle but that was (is) nothing unique to the 'NEIPA' style. My other hoppy beers (DIPA, IPA, APA) also experience hop fade with time in the bottle.

    On a related matter Stone has a suggested best by timeframe for their hoppy beers of 90 days. That is consistent with my homebrewed hoppy beers including 'NEIPA'.

    Cheers!
     
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  15. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I didn't know purple cardboard had nuances beyond brown cardboard :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  16. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Zealot (586) May 29, 2011 Florida

    You CAN bottle NEIPA. Trillium came to fame with their bottled NEIPAs a few years ago (changed to cans since then) and the ones I had were incredible.

    A few tips though:

    Closed fermentation after 72 hrs
    No oxygen contact after 72 hrs
    Closed transfer via CO2 push to CO2 purged bottling vessel with priming sugar
    Use counterpressure filler for bottling
    Thoroughly flush your bottles with CO2 then immediately fill and cap
    Bottle condition < 2 weeks
    Store cold

    That’s what I would do if bottling.

    Any O2 ingress after fermentation will ruin your NEIPA. It’s all about keeping O2 out.
     
  17. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,755) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Premium

    Jack, please tell how promptly your hoppy beers get consumed.
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    I did in post #14:

    "On a related matter Stone has a suggested best by timeframe for their hoppy beers of 90 days. That is consistent with my homebrewed hoppy beers including 'NEIPA'."

    Cheers!
     
  19. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,755) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Premium

    In the past, I believe you have said that IPAs are optimum to your palate at something around the 5 week mark. Is that right? Are you targeting day 35-90 for consumption?
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    Yes, that is when they are at peak of flavor. If I could drink two cases of beer at one sitting I would drink all of my hoppy beers at that time.
    I start drinking my hoppy beers at 3 weeks (21 days) after bottling and I make it a practice that those beers be gone by the 3 month mark (90 days).

    Cheers!
     
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  21. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,755) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Premium

    Although not bottling much these days, I aim for similar. Sometimes they sit longer if I do not have opportunities to share. (Downside to kegging is it is not convenient for sharing). For a while I was brewing a lot of low-hop beers for this reason. But I bought into the 47Hops hype so will need to be brewing a lot of hoppy beers at some point soon, if I ever want to get my freezer back.
     
  22. mannrw61

    mannrw61 Initiate (35) Nov 30, 2017 Massachusetts

    I just started homebrewing a month ago, but since this is the style I drink the most, it's also the style I am most interested in trying. Since I'm more familiar with the flavors/feel of the style, I imagine it will be easier for me to tell whether or not my finished product is on par for the course. But I also only bottle right now, although I am looking into kegging small batches, and bottling this style makes me nervous because I only ever see NEIPAs in cans or on tap. So I eagerly absorb all the advice I can find in threads like this!
     
  23. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    Yup, bottles are indeed great for sharing. I am going to a friends house later today - a party to watch the Belmont. I will be bringing bottles of a batch of Centennial IPA that I bottled on 5/8/18. Those bottles are 4.5 weeks old right now - peak of aroma/flavor.

    Cheers!
     
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  24. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,245) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    Don't be intimidated. If I can make good beer, anyone can make good beer. Compared to most people's techniques that have been shared, my style is haphazard bordering on lazy.
     
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  25. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Zealot (586) May 29, 2011 Florida

    I don’t mean to sound negative but unless you have a low O2 setup (closed fermentation, CO2 purge, CO2 push transfers, CO2 purge bottling) I wouldn’t brew this style beer with expectations of anything good.

    Have CO2 tank? Closed & pressure capable fermentor? Kegs or closed pressure capable secondary? Counter pressure filler?

    If not, I wouldn’t recommend to try this style. Just a heads up to save your $ and time.
     
  26. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Wouldn't a NEIPA usually have less oxygen damage than many other beer styles...because it is imbibed usually when fairly green (and hoppy) ?
     
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  27. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    Go ahead and brew/bottle your 'NEIPA'.

    As has been discussed in a number of posts, drink this beer quickly. If you were to purchase commercially brewed and packaged 'NEIPA' beers they are best consumed fresh as well.

    I would suggest this also for the case of a 'regular' IPA.

    Cheers!
     
  28. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Zealot (586) May 29, 2011 Florida

    No. With the heavy amount hop polyphenols it oxidizes very quickly. This is perhaps the style MOST affected by post-fermentation O2 ingress. Key to this style (actually, one of the keys) is no O2 pickup, no DO post-primary.
     
  29. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    You mean like packaging? Dry hopping is almost always introducing a little oxygen, but NEIPAs usually require fermentation hopping...which happens during fermentation ...no?
     
    #29 GreenKrusty101, Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  30. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Zealot (586) May 29, 2011 Florida

    Yeah so you are right. And I think that the best method for this is dry hopping on fermentation day #3-4, & if DDH to do 2nd dry hop with ~1 plato left to terminal. This way yeast uptakes any introduced O2, everything else under pressure.

    I do this by closing my open fermentation when I do 1st DH on day 3-4, let ride another 3-4 days, transfer under pressure to CO2 purged modified DH keg (closed transfer) on top of 2nd dry hop, purge well after transfer (bubble liquid through outpost), lay down on side and roll daily (most hop:beer contact) x3 days, stand upright in kegerator, push CO2 in daily x3 days through outpost, then transfer to CO2 purged serving keg via CO2 push, carbonate and serve.

    Note: modified (cut) dip tube is shaped like “J” with stainless steel wire and tubing. This allows for “standpipe” function when keg is turned vertical during cold crash. Hops will settle below “J” outpost to transfer to serving keg, especially after clearing tube daily with small (2-3 psi) CO2 pushes through “J” dip tube.

    Hope this makes sense and helps.
     
  31. runbirddrinkbeer

    runbirddrinkbeer Initiate (150) Oct 24, 2009 Florida

    My best answer to that would be that it is not something unique to NEIPAs but more likely a problem with oxidation associated with massive double dry hopping in general without co2 transfer. Most homebrewers who bottle would be tasked with plopping in 3-4-5 or more ounces of pellets/ cones/ hop sacks etc with the hopes that there was enough layered out co2 from active fermentation to expunge any oxygen which ensued.

    I should mention that I still bottle hefeweizens and saisons without similar oxidative issues......minimal hopping. These turn out quite well, in fact bottled hefeweizens are my wheelhouse.
     
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  32. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Zealot (500) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois

    Precede as normal, and don't worry about it. You are a homebrewer brewing a style that is not meant to sit around.
     
  33. runbirddrinkbeer

    runbirddrinkbeer Initiate (150) Oct 24, 2009 Florida

    Ultimately, you are correct. You learn from brewing, successes and failures. The OP stated that this would be his first all grain batch, so already a steep learning curve.

    Go for it. (my first bottled neipa came out great!)
     
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  34. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,245) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    Ah bullshit. I don't do any of that crap and my beers typically hold out 3 months before falling off.
    Edit, I am not saying those things can't help, but merely calling bullshit on the notion that a brewer could not make a good NEIPA without them.
     
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  35. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Zealot (586) May 29, 2011 Florida

    What is your process? How do you store your bottles?
     
  36. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,245) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    I ferment in a bucket, I throw in my first round of hops on day three, second round day 7. I rack over to my bottling bucket on day 14. I use a bottling wand on the end of my spigot, and the beer gets priming sugar stirred in as well. I don't purge my bottles. Maybe the lack of O2 at 6300' Is what prevents my beers from oxidizing instantaneously.
     
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  37. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,715) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    LOL!

    Cheers!
     
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  38. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Zealot (586) May 29, 2011 Florida

    @SFACRKnight , to me that process sounds very risky.

    How many NEIPA have you made this way? Have you ever done a side by side experiment of bottle condition vs closed transfers & keg?
     
  39. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,245) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    Maybe 10 or 15 batches. @JackHorzempa had a couple of mine. They weren't my best iterations of the style because the beer was an experiment, however he could likely speak towards the level of oxidation he encountered with them.
     
  40. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Crusader (730) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Yeah...don't do that