News BrewDog Admits Talks to Sell Almost 1/3 of its Business

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by herrburgess, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. rgordon

    rgordon Defender (637) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Ah, I see. Anyway, I still like the Packers legacy better than BrewDog's current resume. You do make perfectly logical arguments for giving them a chance and waiting to see. They still rub me wrong, but that's just me. I just don't buy in.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    FWIW I have no issues with BrewDog. I had a draft pint of Punk IPA once and it was a good beer. I just can't for the life of me imagine why I would buy a 6-pack of BrewDog beer vs. a 6-pack from Sierra Nevada or Sixpoint as examples. Maybe the BrewDog folks will produce something that is 'different' and worthwhile from what is already out there? Or maybe not.

    Cheers!

    @Crusader @Sixpoint
     
  3. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Yes. If they need that. The interesting unaswered question is whether they do or not need to do that.
     
  4. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    I have a few favorite football teams and breweries as well. Similarly, I don't buy into their approach, especially the P.T. Barnum philosopy about publicity. But then there are lots of companies in other lines of business where I could say the same and it hasn't prevented them from being successful.
     
  5. rgordon

    rgordon Defender (637) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    I will never begrudge anyone the success that they have achieved.....but my money is my vote! We'll see how this works out for the Buckeye Scots. I do have a soft spot for Columbus.
     
  6. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    :)

    I would have thought that anyone whose heritage includes Clan Gordon might also have a soft spot for Scots.
     
  7. rgordon

    rgordon Defender (637) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    I really do. Men of few words run in the family..... except for me.
     
    drtth likes this.
  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Savant (986) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Beer Trader

    And yet you can imagine why Germans would buy a Stone single for 3 Euro instead of a solid German beer (including IPAs etc) for 1/6 of the price. Why the disconnect?
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    If there are indeed 'solid' IPAs being produced by German breweries that are commonly available (i.e., throughout the entire area that Stone distributes) then I can see the German consumers buying those beers instead of Stone beers.

    I am not aware of any German brewery that meets both of those criteria:
    • 'Solid'
    • Widely available
    Maybe @Lurchus has some complete information here.

    Cheers!
     
    westcoastbeergeek likes this.
  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Savant (986) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Not surprising that you wouldn't know....
     
  11. rgordon

    rgordon Defender (637) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    The Stone foray into Germany is maybe a touch less audacious than the general BrewDog schtick, but really not by far. What is new and is "foreign" has always been intriguing to me, particularly beers, going way back. I'm sure I paid a premium relatively. Knowing what I know now, those first really good German and English beers reaching our shores then were well worth the money. If I was a young German, I might now likely be very curious about American beers and try what was becoming available, regardless of cost.
     
  12. Lurchus

    Lurchus Aspirant (229) Jan 19, 2014 Germany

    ---I already said it in the europe forums regarding stone beers on the german market: :
    And there are a lot of german IPAs that are widely aviable for cheaper..
    Maisel's IPA would be the prime example now, stuff is basically everywhere these days and only 5.99 for a six pack. And is more than solid in my opinion.
     
    Ranbot, JackHorzempa, jmdrpi and 4 others like this.
  13. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,200) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    My BiL from WI has one share in the Packers. It allows him to go to the share holders meeting and a couple of other non-game things. Games, you need to inherit tickets.

    BrewDog shares? No thanks.
     
  14. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    No, I'll not buy them either, but Brewdog share holders are invited to the annual meeting and offered some other special perqs.

    I've also heard all Packers tickets have been sold out since the sixties and that there have been some family feuds over who gets the inherited tickets...
     
  15. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,067) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Really. I can barely keep up with the IPA appearing in my own county:)

    re:topic I will be really interested to see how BrewDog do around here, as my gut instinct is they will be a collossal failure in this market. I'm no expert just old, but I give em two years here tops before they pull dusty bottles from shelves and move on. I expect to see the same departure from other outside of area breweries already here in near future.
     
    #55 cavedave, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
    meefmoff and jrnyc like this.
  16. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    I have trouble keeping up with the increasing number of IPAs and breweries just appearing here in SEPA. ;)

    But to change the topic a bit, were you thinking that your near future departures will include everything from folks such as Anchor, Dogfish Head, Sierra Nevada, Lagunitas and Goose Island? Or was there some other collection of brands that you think you'll see disappearing from the shelves? Although I haven't yet made a point of seriously watching with this in mind, my current impression is that around here in some of the places I've seen, there seems to have been some impact on local brands as well as the "from somewhere else" brands.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  17. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,067) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Not sure which of the big guys will go first, or if any will go for that matter. I am pretty sure Knee Deep will be outta here. Green Flash sits, so my guess is they may be on thin ice. I don't think the market can support new arrivals Pipeworks, Half Acre, and Burial.

    Any big brewery that distributes IPA/hoppy pale ales to my area is gonna be in big trouble IMO. Jeff O'Neil, "Chief ", of fame as once head brewer at Ithaca (Flower Power), and Peekskill, just did his first canning run of amazing IPA's . He is on record as saying he wants to put cans of the finest, freshest IPA in the country in every gas station in the Hudson Valley. Equilibrium Brewing is set to open their tap room this month. They already have put out better IPA than any of the big guys, and they are set to can and distribute in the area. Add to this that it is likely we will be getting Sip Of Sunshine distro here, so add that to the competition. Add to this all the other breweries already doing amazing hoppy beers in the region.

    My guess is much of this country is the same as here, or soon will be. Who and when the big victims are will be interesting to watch, especially BrewDog, a foreign brewer.
     
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  18. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Makes sense right now. As you say how it will all shake out remains to be see.

    Although I suspect it will be hard to sort out the reasons for the shake up since I'm also anticipating that it also won't be too much longer before the statistics catch up with breweries, in the sese that across the board the numbers show 50% of all start ups gone out of business in about 4 years. I think the popularity boom for flavorful beers has kept that failure rate at bay and kept several breweries afloat who would otherwise have gone under more stable circumstances. But if that wave subsides it will still leave us lots more beers to enjoy but start thining the brewery ranks a bit.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  19. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Poo-Bah (3,820) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Subscriber

    Here in SEPA it is similar in that there are a lot of local breweries/brewpubs that are doing packaged beer in the form of can releases. People stand in line, so hopefully they think the beer tastes better than widely available stuff (sometimes a debatable point).

    But the issue is still price/value. Even if the local beer is better than Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or Lagunitas IPA, they are selling their beer for $16+ a 4-pack vs. $9 or $10 a 6-pack for the nationally distributed beer. Similarly, local mid-size breweries like Troegs and Victory can beat these small breweries on price too.

    The question for consumers is: IF these more local beers are better quality - are they better enough to justify 2x the price? Often times my answer is no.
     
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  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Often times my answer is no as well but apparently for the hundreds of folks who wait in lines for hours and are even willing to pay upwards of $24 for a 4-pack (e.g., Tired Hands Milkshake beers) the answer seems to be a consistent yes.

    Maybe this 'extreme enthusiasm' will diminish in the near future but I am not seeing any signs of this. In fact it seems to be expanding with more and more local breweries selling 4 -packs of 16 ounce cans for high prices as well.

    Cheers!
     
    jmdrpi likes this.
  21. Ranbot

    Ranbot Devotee (412) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I suspect BrewDog is savvy enough not to hang all their hopes [and more than $31 million invested] on competing toe-to-toe in the over-saturated IPA market. That sort of conventional direct competition has never really been BrewDog's path before...
    I also don't appreciate BrewDog's attention grabbing antics, but their unique flair for marketing is the one reason I wouldn't count BrewDog out. This more competitive market won't make things easy for them, but they might have some new tricks up their sleeves to meet the challenge. If they can run a successful stunt, campaign, or sponsorship to grab enough hearts, then their beer does not have to compete toe-to-toe with others.

    On the other hand, if they pull a stunt that flops, the colossal failure should at least be interesting to watch.
     
    herrburgess and drtth like this.
  22. reefer_bob

    reefer_bob Disciple (314) May 13, 2014 California
    Beer Trader

    On a much smaller scale, I see what Mikeller did in San Diego in the same vein. Mikeller stuff was always available around, maybe not very good, or of unknown origin. The MIkeller San Diego (Formerly Alesmith) is putting out some fantastic local beer.

    Now obviously they're not taking over any huge markets, but on a much smaller scale, IMO, it's working.
     
  23. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    I suspect they've been using the stunts to differentiate themselves from the competition and possibly to distract attention from some of the very interesting moves they've been making behind the scenes.

    e.g., According to that article I linked to they already have 40+ pub type places up and running in a variety of international locations. In addition, the company has secured UK patents on some ways of equipping kegs that allow for a reasonable approximation of cask ale but in keg and without the limitations of that create problems when distributing cask ales over long distances. If you enjoy cask ale are you going to go drinking at a place that has no TVs and offers a variety of cask ales regularly or are you going to go to some bar with loud TV sets that gets cask ale on once in a while?
     
    #63 drtth, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
    Ranbot likes this.
  24. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Yup, lots of speculation in this thread on what BrewDog is ‘up to’ here, including my speculations:

    “Maybe they have some ideas to 'broaden' their product range here?”

    And:

    “Maybe BrewDog has an idea(s) on how to be profitable via a unique marketing strategy?”

    And:

    “Maybe the BrewDog folks will produce something that is 'different' and worthwhile from what is already out there?”

    The only folks who know more here are James Watt, Martin Dickie, et al. and at this point in time I am not thoroughly convinced they know yet.

    Cheers!
     
  25. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (2,768) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    You left out a couple of speculations.

    "They are able to tap into the expert knowledge, suggestions, and guidance of pros who've been successful here in the States and piggy back on the expertise of those pros."

    "They don't know what they are doing." ;)
     
  26. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Well, I don't know if Stone (5% lay-offs in 2016), Green Flash (recent lay-offs) or even Sierra Nevada (decreased sales in 2016 of SNPA) would be of great help here.

    If I were a Stone or Green Flash person I would provide the advice of: don't do it!!

    Below is something else I posted previously in another thread on this topic:

    "Hopefully the BrewDog dudes (James and Martin) are doing the proper financial planning (due diligence) here but given the machinations of the craft beer industry over the past year I personally would not invest in a mid-large scale production brewery now. A smaller local distribution brewery (or brewpub) is a differing case (at this moment)."

    With the amount of money they are investing in the Columbus production brewery they could have opened many brewpubs throughout the US (e.g., Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., San Francisco, ...).

    If I were willing to invest in BrewDog (and I am not for a variety of reasons) I would be more likely to invest in a number of brewpubs vs. what they are doing now.

    Cheers!
     
    reefer_bob likes this.
  27. reefer_bob

    reefer_bob Disciple (314) May 13, 2014 California
    Beer Trader

    I'll go back to my Mikeller reference... He's opened his brewery in San Diego, he now has brewpubs in SF, Oakland, and opening one in LA...

    Fieldwork is another good Nor-Cal example. They're based in Berkley, but just opened pubs in Sacramento, Napa, and somewhere in the Bay Area. All very well received.

    Heck, even Stone is opening a small brewpub in Napa now...
     
  28. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Yup, opening smaller, local breweries/brewpubs makes business sense in today's craft beer market.

    Cheers!
     
    donspublic and reefer_bob like this.
  29. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,067) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Well, we don't have lines around here. I pay $13/15/18 for top quality four paks of 16 ozers. I don't think that is twice as much as the beers you speak of.

    Too much great beer. More coming. Life is good.

    If BrewDog can do 16 oz. 4paks of top quality beer for $7/8/9 I think they will put every body out of business. My guess is they will be more expensive than their local competition.
     
  30. Ranbot

    Ranbot Devotee (412) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania

    Interestingly BrewDog's website indirectly addresses this if you take them at their word of course (underlines by me)...

    "We are also looking to launch five flagship US BrewDog bars across the country in order to plant our beery flags in the American Dream. America is the land of many things – opportunity, freedom, cheesesteaks (to name but three). Something else to include in that list are brewpubs. We love the idea of a BrewDog BrewPub – so we have decided to bring them Stateside as part of Equity for Punks USA! If 500 people invest in BrewDog USA from the same city, we will open a BrewPub there. "

    500 investors in a large metropolitan area is a low bar. If the mention of cheesesteaks is a hint, they might have their eye on our Philadelphia area already. ;) I would never suggest you, myself, or anyone should "invest" in the hope of a BrewDog pub opening near us, but clearly local pubs are part of the business plan.
     
    JackHorzempa and drtth like this.
  31. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    And if BrewDog used the millions of dollars in financing that they already acquired they could have already opened those brewpubs vs. their existing strategy of soliciting money via Equity for Punks.

    Yup, BrewDog will not obtain a penny of investment from me for this reason (and others).

    I may buy a US brewed BrewDog beer in the future (and maybe not).

    Cheers!
     
  32. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Poo-Bah (3,820) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Subscriber

    Where these prices get crazy and turn into 2x factors are at the case amount, as most of the small breweries around here are not giving the case discounts you see for distributed beer. They'll say the limit is 1 case but the price is one 4-pack x 6. So a $16 4-pack price turns into a $96 case of beer, and a $24 4-pack turns into a whopping $144 case.

    So compared to the beers I can walk into a beer distributor and buy for $40 a case, or $65 a case for a DIPA or Imperial Stout, these prices just don't make sense to me.
     
  33. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,067) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Wooaaahh if I could get War Elephant quality IIPA for 65 a case of 16 ozers I'd jump on that too! NY is good and bad in a lot of ways.
     
  34. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Poo-Bah (3,820) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Subscriber

    Victory Dirtwolf has about the same BA score and is about $50 for a case of 12 oz bottles.

    In 16 oz cans, Neshaminy Creek just went year round with Shape of Hops to Come and that runs about $65 a case with a similar rating average as well.

    I'm in the minority with generally preferring "old school" style DIPAs, so my favorite widely available ones are OB Deviant Dales and DFH 90 Min, which hit below that price too.
     
  35. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,067) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Dirt Wolf is a decent beer, gotta say I love War Elephant quite a bit more, but it's an okay comparison. You pay 5.5 cents more per ounce by buying a case of Dirt Wolf than I pay for any amount of War Elephant.

    That is a decent savings, not anywhere near to half, but a decent savings. I can get Dirt Wolf here for a bit more than that, but I get to enjoy $4 pints of 12 amazing RD beers at the chillest tap room in NY when I buy my War Elephant without waiting on a line. I will gladly pay the small difference for better beer and better place to buy it.
     
    jmdrpi likes this.
  36. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Poo-Bah (3,820) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Subscriber

    Yeah then the pricing you are talking is not like some of the egregious examples around here.

    I'm talking people standing in line hours to fork over cash for the below. Despite all the additives, that stout has lower BA ratings than a beer like Founders Imperial Stout that's sitting on the shelves at half the price. Tired Hands released even a straight-ahead pilsner at $15 a 4-pack when you can go into any store and buy Victory Prima Pils for like $35 a case.
     
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  37. champ103

    champ103 Poo-Bah (3,650) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Pretty much everything from that Tired Hands release sounds awful to me. People actually wait in line for that?

    Arg, and once again everything goes back to the ridiculously over hyped NEIPA/kitchen pantry stout makers and not about the original post...you wonder why some people get fed up with all the NEIPA talk? :rolleyes:
     
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  38. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,067) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Personally I think lines and pricing like that are gonna be things of the past soon enough, for many reasons, but the main one I see coming is that every area will have enough great beer so that there won't be a need for lines, nor ability to keep prices so much higher than competition.

    It's coming, the last step in making our already-nearly-perfect beer culture perfect, great, fresh beer easily available in all parts of the country.
     
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  39. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Poo-Bah (3,820) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Subscriber

    Well it was a logical sidetrack about the pricing of "local" breweries vs. "regional" or "national" breweries and related marketshare.

    But Brewdog seems to what to straddle the fence of being a "punk" outsider doing crazy things like beer bottles inside stuffed squirrels, yet expand to be a corporate giant.
     
    champ103 likes this.
  40. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,579) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Yup, every week and sometimes even twice a week.

    I sure hope that the future that Dave (@cavedave) is envisioning comes to fruition but at this point in time I am not seeing anything to indicate it. The lines at Tired Hands are not getting shorter and they have raised the price of their beers over the past year or so. What I am seeing is that other local small breweries are 'seeing the light' and packaging their hoppy beers in 4-packs of 16 ounce cans and charging a pretty penny for them. Even Victory Brewing did this recently with their release of a one-off Tank to Table beer:

    "The cans will be sold singularly ($4), in 4-packs ($16) and in 24-pack suitcases ($80)."

    https://www.thetowndish.com/2017/02/15/give-people-want-victorys-tank-table-series/

    Present day indicators are that consumers have a extreme exuberance for locally brewed beers and are willing to wait in line and pay BIG BUCKS for those beers.

    Again, I really hope that Dave's prediction comes true but I personally am not holding my breath here.

    Cheers!
     
    cavedave and champ103 like this.
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