Breweries Withdraw from Mikkeller Festival in Response to Sexual Harassment Allegations

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by thebeers, Oct 12, 2021.

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  1. rodbeermunch

    rodbeermunch Sep 30, 2015 Nevada
    Society Trader

    I can demonstrate you saying it is demonstrably false is a demonstrably false statement.

    Name a single brewery. I'll show you (or make) a claim against them.
     
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  2. Resistance88

    Resistance88 Apr 9, 2015 California
    Trader

    Sticky situation as well when it was employees that were accused/guilty of harassment or discrimination and not management but it falls on the brewery. Shit like this isn't easy to handle, but mannn they should really get HR departments otherwise it looks like the brewery don't give a fuck.
    Good thing there's hundreds of breweries making good beer:joy:
    Mikeller realllly dropped the ball on this. As messed up as it is, I'm enjoying watching the festival falling apart . :popcorn:
     
  3. o29

    o29 Sep 29, 2020 Texas
    Society Trader

    ...so you don't think that Brienne's Instagram stories have had any impact on reality? I do think that more could yet be done here since unfortunately solving sexism is and will not be an easy task, but that's not to marginalize the impact that what she's done has had.

    Or am I misunderstanding the point you're trying to make?
     
  4. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    Otherlands.

    Go!
     
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  5. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Side project.

    Sierra Nevada.

    Sante Adarius.

    Of course, you left yourself the out of saying you would just make a spurious claim against them if you couldn't find one. Which is weird.
     
  6. StJamesGate

    StJamesGate Oct 8, 2007 New York
    Society

    The Brooklyn breweries dropped out yesterday. And 8 breweries from the UK all pulled out today.

    Down to about 2/3rds of the original attendees, with (arguably) most of the biggest names gone.
     
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  7. rodbeermunch

    rodbeermunch Sep 30, 2015 Nevada
    Society Trader

    I would never make a spurious claim. I might repeat a claim I've heard or read with no confirmation, but datratmagnet applause for the same could make yours a spurious tactic in and of itself or marginalization of those who try to bring light to a serious problem. . .?

    Sierra Nevada has been sued numerous times for alleged transgressions. Recently there was backlash against the accuser (victim blaming.shaming). Sierra Nevada did nothing to promote #believeallegations against them, thereby leading some to the conclusion they are wielding systemic shaming mob powers against victims?

    Sante Adarius has had allegations come and go on Yelp. Some are still there. Big $$$ coverup?

    Otherlands has had turnover in key positions with negative rumblings as to why in terms of disgruntlement.

    Sideproject's name itself is an exclusionary tier of inequality as if all projects aren't equal.
     
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  8. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Got any links to any of those claims or are they just baseless claims because you think you're proving some kind of point?
     
  9. rodbeermunch

    rodbeermunch Sep 30, 2015 Nevada
    Society Trader

    I think we're both trying to prove some kind of point?

    Anyhoo, again, with the link thing, that tactic was not employed previously on assertions, so why now if not anything but an attempt to chill speech about discrimination?

    If you go to any search engine:

    yelp for SARA. . .

    Sierra Nevada lawsuit. . .

    Otherlands chef manager turnover. . .

    Sideproject I thought was obvious parody response ("Sideproject's name itself is an exclusionary tier of inequality as if all projects aren't equal"), but I forgot its like a competition out there in 2021 to use the disgruntled wordbank of equality/equity so it may have come off as a serious comment. . .
     
  10. BuffaloBill12

    BuffaloBill12 Oct 21, 2011 Illinois
    Trader

    You do not know what due process means if you think it has somehow been denied to Mikkeller.
     
  11. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    It's a husband-wife-her mom team. They have added staff slowly as they've grown, and all are well established in the local industry.

    I'm just gonna flat-out call you a bullshit filled, lying troll.
     
  12. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Well I guess I got mine across. I found a very popular and famous brewery that doesn't have any accusations. First try too.
    If you're referring to the Instagram stories thing from earlier in the year, that was overwhelmingly first hand accounts. There are lots of links in the thread about that topic. I think someone even made a spreadsheet of the allegations.
    Ya I did that and turned up nada. Looking on yelp I just saw a few typical complaints about poor service and low quality outdoor space
    Looked for that too, all I found was the time lagunitas tried to claim a trademark on IPA.

    You're free to believe what you want, including that every single brewery is beset by false accusations of abuse in the work place. But don't be surprised if people tell you you're making yourself look like an ass when you assert that publicly and can't back it up
     
  13. Rug

    Rug Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    It's funny how much he's trying for a troll. Usually they're pathetic and give up after 1 response
     
  14. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    There's an odd strain in our culture that absolutely bristles at any public discussion of any kind of abuse of a power dynamic. It often manifests in similar weird responses that are full of non sequiturs and bizarre false equivalents.
     
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  15. Resistance88

    Resistance88 Apr 9, 2015 California
    Trader

    The comments on mikellers post are disheartening. All those men posturing and shit :joy:
     
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  16. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Ya I tend to agree with the sentiment that social media is a terrible place to work out these kinds of issues. Brienne's Instagram effort clearly made some waves but hopefully we will start to see some concrete moves within the industry. Sure seems like the brewers association would be well positioned to actually guide its members here
     
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  17. thebeers

    thebeers Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    46 of the original 126 breweries have now dropped out of the festival.
     
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  18. ChicagoJ

    ChicagoJ Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society

    Sad that several of breweries I have frequented on both coasts (midwest and west) remain, though they may be "Saved by the Bell" if the whole thing is cancelled. If I owned social media accounts (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter), I'd ask the following about their continued participation. Plenty of other breweries with quality beers out there.

    Also including 3 Floyds, who are partners with Mikkeller with Warpigs (and also East Coast brewer Oxbow which I have enjoyed in the past).

    Illinois / Indiana
    • 18th Street
    • Hop Butcher
    • Mikerphone
    • Three Floyds / Warpigs
    • Transient
    California / Washington
    • Bottle Logic
    • Firestone Walker
    • Fremont
    • Homage
     
  19. HoppingMadMonk

    HoppingMadMonk Mar 3, 2017 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    What if the event was still held
    ..all participants make a donation to buy several booths that will be used by women's shelters.
    Those booths could hand out flyers with information about abuse against women. They also would have a chance to solicit donations that they couldn't get otherwise.ive worked with those groups and they are always in need of cash.
    The site renting the space could also donate booth space to some of these causes. There are a lot of women's shelters in California as well as other states
    Adding a flyer with educational info to guests as they enter could help. Also it is mainly men who attend these events so it would be a perfect opportunity to educate the very group of people who take advantage of women.
    Just a thought
     
  20. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I appreciate the thought and don't mean to criticize what is meant to be a proactive contribution, but just for the sake of discussion feel I should note: physical abuse and similar isn't necessarily the key issue, here. Focusing on something like that sort of ends up brushing aside the main culprits of this problem -- i.e. casual harassment, misogyny, systemic labor conditions that give rise to these issues (that are gender neutral on their faces but tend to have an outsized impact on those in a already-disadvantaged position of some kind). Just something worth considering!
     
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  21. HoppingMadMonk

    HoppingMadMonk Mar 3, 2017 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    Very
    Intelligent comment but most of those women I've dealt with in those shelters have experienced many forms of the abuse you mentioned.
    Which would be my goal in all of this for men to realize the difference between asking a girl if he can buy her a drink vs harassment. Unfortunately some can't tell the difference or care to learn
     
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  22. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Oh, I'm definitely in agreement that "women in shelters have experienced abuse" like the kind I mentioned. My point is simply that focusing on that one, very niche type of victim would be a shame given that it would necessarily leave out many, many other victims (given that physical abuse like the kind you refer to is, thankfully, not nearly as common in the workplace). Do you see what I mean? Just because many victims of abuse have also suffered "less serious" forms of harassment doesn't mean that people who suffer "less serious forms of harassment would also be victims of abuse. I hope that makes sense; but either way, probably not worth going too far down this path and distracting from the main points of the thread. Cheers.
     
  23. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    That's... certainly something lol. I'm trying to remain optimistic and assume the best of the people running this show, but part of this feels like a really gross response as well. Sincerely not sure how to react to this unique response, and curious what others think.
     
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  24. o29

    o29 Sep 29, 2020 Texas
    Society Trader

    So their response is basically this:


    While I appreciate that they want to listen to the community, I don't know that soliciting solutions from your audience is necessarily the right way to go about this either.
     
  25. thebeers

    thebeers Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    As frustrating as this post from Mikkeller is — the first apology should be to the wronged employees, not the Interwebs — it is a marked change from where they were even 48 hours ago and goes to show how consumer pressure on businesses can generate results.

    Regardless of where Mikkeller ends up, I’d be shocked if their experience doesn’t, at least temporarily, lead other major beer industry players (including our hosts at Next Glass) to rethink who they collaborate with and how they respond to criticism moving forward.
     
  26. hops_for_thought

    hops_for_thought Jun 14, 2013 New York
    Trader

    Not sure if it’s been discussed in another thread but on that note there’s the whole Untappd SD festival as well
     
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  27. thebeers

    thebeers Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    There was some minor discussion of it in the San Diego fest thread (mainly by yours truly).

    I asked Todd if BA could do what people had asked Untappd to consider — include a field for links to breweries’ Codes of Conduct on the breweries’ profile pages — but he suggested it would be too difficult. I asked if there was something else BA could do instead to help get the info out there, but he hasn’t responded yet.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...-park-oct-1-2-2021.658812/page-2#post-7362127
     
  28. thebeers

    thebeers Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    52 breweries have now dropped out. (And two new Scandinavian breweries have been added — way to make a name for yourselves, fellas.)
     
  29. TrojanRB

    TrojanRB Jul 27, 2013 Texas
    Society Trader

    Meh, I’d still attend.
     
  30. Newport_beerguy

    Newport_beerguy Feb 24, 2011 Rhode Island
    Trader

    Boo-fucking-hoo. The power of a company has been favored drastically over any allegations from their workers for 99.9% of history. I start from a position of believing the victims, but let's go the devil's advocate view that maybe these people weren't telling the entire truth. Ok, then Mikkeller is unfortunately just run by assholes and not true abusers. And they are one of very few companies to pay the price for any wrongdoing.
     
  31. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Just a real crazy idea that people might want to consider in situations like this;

    People and breweries could attend this festival, even if all allegations against mikeller are completely true, and not be terrible assholes. We all, probably, interact with shoddy people every month in some way. It doesn't make a person vile for having interacted positively with a person or organization who is kind of shitty
     
  32. thebeers

    thebeers Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Most people do interact with shoddy businesses on the regular; it’s very hard not to.

    It’s not the interacting with a shoddy business that makes one an ass in this situation, so much as the actively ignoring requests for help and solidarity from people trying to improve the industry.
     
  33. thebeers

    thebeers Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    56 br
    56 breweries have now dropped out of the festival— a full one half of the original participants.

    There’s also a new Instagram post from Mikkeller’s founder, striking a very different tone than in his press interviews last week.

    [​IMG]
     
  34. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    "It has taken me a while to acknowledge the extend of the problem, but it's clear to me now":

    This is actually hurting my business in a really bad way. Looks like I'll have to take a step back from my ego and pretend like I care if I want to turn this whole situation around.
     
  35. JamFuel

    JamFuel Mar 26, 2009 Sweden
    Moderator Society

    Yeah, that's how I read it as well. I don't think he thought it would get anywhere near as bad as it has when he made that first interview. MBCC 21 is a shell of what it was supposed to be now, and he is in full damage control mode.
     
  36. ChicagoJ

    ChicagoJ Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society

    Apparently some participating brewers had their Instagram pages pulled.

    Bottle Logic posted this on their main site, and also provides an explanation regarding their continued participation in this event (click tasting room on their website if the link below doesnt take you to the Instagram/Mikkeller explanation).

    https://bottlelogic.com/

    https://www.instagram.com/bottlelogicbrewing/
     
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  37. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Not completely sure what the veracity of this is, but for your consideration via @Ratmagnet: Mikkeller may be pouring many of the breweries' beers at MBCC. The breweries themselves who withdrew won't attend, but may have already been contractually obligated/sent beer to the event.
     
  38. ChicagoJ

    ChicagoJ Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society

    I don’t believe brewers are contractually obligated, as a large majority are not attending and also not serving their beer (44 of 56).

    The tracker of the boycotting/remaining brewers lists the 12 of 56 still serving their beer at the festival, designated with a beer mug to the left of their name within the link below.

    http://mbcc2021.glitch.me/
     
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  39. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Got it, thanks for the correction!
     
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