Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'US - West' started by antsmarching777, Jun 18, 2022.
Instead of issuing those challenge coins...
Yeah, I wasn't entirely sure about the timing, thanks Xul.
Theory was still dumb, though.
It's mostly just amusing how clear hindsight can really be. How many times have you seen the person denouncing something the loudest be an offender of whatever he/she is denouncing? Modern Times screamed the loudest about all of their values and here they are offending nearly all of them.
I often wondered how they could possibly be funding many of their operations; turns out, they really didn't. It was all smoke and mirrors. Scum owner tricked people in to believing in him and he hung everyone out to dry.
idk it seems pretty smart to me, and don't other beer clubs have tiers like this? Hoarders comes to mind. Seemed like people in Theory felt like they got their money's worth, as I never heard of anyone given the chance to renew and declining. It also had to be a big revenue driver, as it seemed like a lot of League members bought bottles they maybe wouldn't have otherwise in hopes their spending would be high enough to garner a Theory invite. I used to think the downside of Theory was how it turned the FB group into a circle jerk because everyone wanted to show how much of an MT supporter they were, but I'd take that over the cesspool of trolls and butthurt that the group has become in recent weeks...
Yeah, not cool with any of that.
Manipulating your members into buying more in hopes they'll get invited into the inner circle--oh, but wait, "it's not based (only) on sales" so basically, it's who you know and how much ass you kiss. League was ALREADY the premier beer membership in socal, but they diluted its value instantaneously by creating Theory, just to cater to their top 100-200 friends. "Theory of Elitism" would have been a more accurate name for it.
Sounds like there are elements of a cult, with various levels of being with the in-crowd. Your title for the setup, "Theory of Elitism", sounds just right for one. The only problem seems to be that the leaders weren't able to extract enough cash from the . . . uh, customers. What a change from the old days when I went to the store or tavern and bought a beer, or maybe a six pack, for some cash. People might have asked me, you don't like Bud?
There is much to take issue with regarding MT's ill-timed overexpansion, but catering to your best customers and encouraging ("manipulating" lol) is definitely not one of them. This is really basic, elementary stuff.
Just curious...were you in Theory? I've never found anyone who was in it who would ever say a bad thing about it, and I wouldn't expect them to. But from the outside, it was dumb. They can cater to their top 10% without making the other 90% second-rate members.
No, I was a multi-year member of the League. After several years I didn't renew for a number of different reasons- mostly logistical.
Why is a business rewarding its best customers with exclusive beers and perks a dumb idea? I'm genuinely curious.
What bad things are you hoping to hear about the Theory subsection of the membership? I'm not entirely certain why someone that wanted to be in the MT beer club and was extended an invite to Theory would have a bad thing to say about it. They wanted to be in the club in the first place.
I've been a League member since they started it (not the initial rollout some billionty years ago that was offered to the backers when they brewery was just starting out). I've also been a Theory member since that stuff started, although this year will likely be my last for various reasons.
I was also a Hoarder member of The Bruery for quite a few years as well.
I literally said, "I wouldn't expect [a Theory member]" to say a bad thing about it. Literally. By that I mean, OF COURSE they enjoyed the extra perks.
That said, they had the perfect membership club that everyone wanted into, then they made it an "us vs. them" situation by coming up with Theory and turned 90% of their most loyal supporters into 2nd rate members. And to get in to Theory, it was some magic, mystical, still unexplained mix of money spent and asses kissed that got you in. If it were just based on how much you spent, I wouldn't care, but they said over and over and over it wasn't just that. So it was also ass-kissing. Fuck that.
That didn't answer my question though. I am quite open and will gladly answer, I am just having a difficult time trying to think of something that I have not liked or was critical about the membership (aside from how their IPAs have drastically fallen off starting like 3 years ago, but that is more of production and not the membership).
You seem to be critical only of the means of getting invited. At least that is what I am gathering from your comments.
Did this similar hostility exist for Bruery Hoarders (although that was mostly money spent and once you were in you couldn't lose it even if your additional spending went down to nothing). Individuals have not been invited back into Theory due to spend levels being less than some in League. This happened every year.
I’ve been in the League a couple years and couldn’t really care less about Theory other than I’ve been hooked up a few times with beers that sold out before League purchases and that was cool.
Holy shit do you have a comprehension problem??? I cannot say this plainly enough--I don't expect anyone who got into Theory to say one bad thing about it. They probably all friggin' love it.
And, YES, I have a problem with how they chose who to invite and who not to invite. If it was solely based on $ spent, that seems fair. But they said over and over it's not. And the amount of ass-kissing at the tastings and online was just disgusting--if you think the two aren't related, you're a fool.
And besides all that, as I mentioned over and over, it diluted the value of League. It created an "us vs. them" mentality that ruined what it felt like to be in League. We had to constantly worry that Theory would buy out entire allotments before we could even get one crack at stuff. It had never previously been like that and, once it was, it sucked.
It is clear you need a hug and like a popsicle or something. =)
I did say I was trying to think of something, but since I am one of those "theory elitists" I requested some help from you in hopes of jogging my memory a bit. I may be elite but I do still suffer from forgetting just like you normies. =P
The "requirements" of getting in are ridiculous and I am definitely part of the "always in Theory regardless of spending levels" group. I am certain I spent less last year than at least 10% of League and still received an invite for this year.
The selling out of beers was dumb and it definitely took a while to get those numbers right but it also had the MT staff in a pickle for those single barrel things where only like 200 btls existed after some of it was kegged off. Either let League know and see if it sells out, cut the allowed limits of Theory down so it goes to League but then becomes an F5 race, cut allowed limits of theory down and go lottery to League, don't even bother telling League of small batch bottles and then they find out and get upset anyways. There was zero winning for MT for any scenario. IIRC there were a couple Theory F5 races.
Theory-exclusives at festivals were almost always worse than the League-exclusive...with the exception of the first Monster Tones at Caffeination out on the pier. I know I lost my theory coin for almost an hour that day and the person that brought it back to me was definitely not the person I first gave it to so they could get a pour.
But after typing out all of this I get the impression you will just come back all angry and swearing anyways, so I am guessing I have wasted my time. =)
Never been a member, nor did I have interest in being one. I've never seen the circle jerk you mention, but hear me out.
I WILL grumble about mortgage/rent because those are non-negotiable expenses.
If I CHOOSE to spend $500/ month at a single brewery AFTER I've had years to get a sense of their style, I'm not going to complain unless they drastically alter course mid membership (like Lost Abbey did with Sinners this year) . That doesn't automatically make me a member of a cult.
FWIW, I am in Theory, I don't really post in the Facebook groups, and I am not friends with anyone who ran the League (or decided who got invited into Theory); in fact the only people who work/worked for MT that would even recognize me are former Dojo staff/bartenders. I was shocked to receive a Theory invite a few years back, but it was solely because I fairly frequently (~ once a week on average) spent happy hour at the Dojo and bought about $200-$300 worth of bottles/cans/coffee per month in the online sales. Zero ass-kissing required - and I know many other other Theory-invites that fit the same profile.
To your second point, I was in the league for a couple of years before getting the Theory invite (the opening of the Dojo and frequency of my visits was surely what put me into the bottom tier of the Theory spenders), and even then I thought the sheer quantity of amazing beers we had access to was insane, even if I missed out on bottles of Monster Tones and a couple of other things (which were almost invariably available to League members on draft or poured at their festivals/special events), I never felt any sort of worry about not getting enough beer, like a "second-rate" member, or an "us vs. them" mentality - most Theory members were generous and happy to share their "exclusives." I always thought the League (pre/post Theory) was the best-run club available with access to an absurd number of high quality BA stouts - seems like it didn't work for everyone, though.
No, you didn’t. No one else is accountable for your FOMO but you.
Wait...what was the minimum spend for Theory?
Man, you're really living up to that user name. This guy is BIG MAD he was never picked for Theory
Actually, no. Not mad about not being picked. Just not happy how it was run or what it did to League.
My first couple years in the League, I bought everything. I maxed out on only a few items. I never felt like a big spender, though. By the time Theory came out, I was already starting to get burned out on pastries and their IPAs started sucking so I would have probably declined the invite. But League became 2nd tier after Theory came out, no ifs ands or buts about it. Still miles better than most other memberships out there, no doubt, but lesser than it had been before Theory and that always bummed me out.
I was in the league every year but the first and this year. Never was in theory. Never had any issue with that. A lot of the memberships have a higher tier that gets more perks.
How does this warrant a whole page in a thread about how Modern Times is about to be MAGA Times?
At the end of the year, I'm gonna nominate this for Thread of the Year.
Modern Times: Make Ale Great Again
I’m looking forward to the batch of Modem Tones Modern X Brewery releases where they forget to add the chocolate malt. “White Modem Tones”
I was hoping for a Blonde Barleywine joke. You left Altar of the White Lord on the table.
Alter of the Orange Lord, 2024 vintage
Can't wait to check out when the sale closes.
The implication being what, that they’re racist/white supremacists? Because they disobeyed the COVID restrictions? Because some of their customers support police officers?
This seems to have escalated pretty, I’d say. Am I missing something here?
Got really defensive there at the mere mention of the word white.
You ok, bro?
This thread is a gift and a lasting legacy of MT and conveniently ushering in the new era.
That seems to be what They, and others, are saying. Don't see much escalation here just people voicing their opinion and frustration. Cheers.
It’s quite an escalation considering that it’s the first mention of race in this thread from what I can tell. The only action Brewery X has taken that is remotely political is saying “No” to vaccine mandates and people have leapt to the conclusion that they are racist. It’s quite a jump considering the facts in the discussion.
I don't have a dog in this fight and could care less, but as I was looking for some sort of update from Brewery X on their site regarding the acquisition of MT as I'd love to know what their plans are for the brewery I did notice their "The Team" page is all male and white. Perhaps not the people who should be trying to fix MT's issues.
That's just a weird take though. Were MTs issues at all related to a lack of diversity? Seems like their issues were a scummy owner, irresponsible financial management, and unfortunate timing with some big expansions in taproom space right before a global health crisis shuttered in person dining/drinking business for a year. Have there been any accusations toward Brewery X management of fostering toxic workplace? Sexual harassment? Financial impropriety?
There's obviously risks with any ownership change that the quality of the beer will change, and we'll all just have to wait and see about that. But this idea that there will be some negative change in the companies culture because the new owners are "white and male" (pretty sure Jacob is a white guy, so no change there) or because their brewery didn't shut down as ordered seem pretty ridiculous considering that the original owner was explicitly acknowledged as fostering a toxic company culture.
I hope for the best with Brewery X. I'm just saying in this day and age, when corporate America, sports teams, the media, Hollywood, etc. are all putting a focus on diversifying their work force, showing your team page as all white dudes does not show a lot of current awareness. Considering some of the complaints lodged against Modern Times were poor treatment of black employees and women, plus the overall brewing industries track record as a boys club, it can't be re-assuring for MT employees who wanted a change in corporate culture to see that.
So their demographic is about the same as what? 90% of craft breweries around the country?
I am going to tread through this topic carefully, which is why I was asking questions rather than making accusations. But isn’t one of the big talking points in craft beer these days a lack of diversity and minority representation? If that’s true, then Brewery X is hardly the only brewery where that’s the case.
Anyone is perfectly within their right to stop patronizing a business because they disagree with how they handle a crisis. No issue there. My issue is that dots were connected in quite an odd way from “defying a government mandate” to “Brewery X is racist”. I just wanted to make sure I didn’t miss something. And if I did not, then I’m asking the claim to be backed up with proof.
It just seems weird to throw a bunch of shade at the new owners for having similar ownership demographics to the majority of beer industry. And again, unless someone can point me to any rumors or accusations of brewery x ownership acting badly towards employees in any way then it just seems silly to act like them taking over from an ownership that has been outed for treating employees badly is somehow a problem.
The old owners were a problem. Maybe the new owners will be too, but there isn't any indication of that yet. We can hardly blame some 3 year old brewery in Anaheim for the systemic problems of American culture that have lead to wealth being concentrated in the hands of predominantly white people.
It's all the more ridiculous considering that modern times staff and fans just watched a man who broadcast the most PC corporate image possible rip off customers and employees while fostering a shitty internal corporate culture and running the company into the ground.