Calling out Coors on being "crafty"

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by BKBassist, May 2, 2013.

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  1. BKBassist

    BKBassist Devotee (438) Jan 24, 2013 New York

    Someone with enough money to execute this plan should name something Band of Brewers and get publicly sued by Coors. Then everyone will know what Third Shift is.

    Kickstarter anyone?
    Roguer, nogophers and RobertColianni like this.
  2. CassinoNorth

    CassinoNorth Disciple (304) Apr 5, 2013 New Jersey
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    The band of brewers making Black Crown was best during Batch 19 in my opinion.
  3. atomic

    atomic Disciple (328) Sep 22, 2009 Illinois
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    People think third shift is craft? Any brewery with enough cash to have national TV ad campaigns are not craft, Sam Adams included.
  4. BKBassist

    BKBassist Devotee (438) Jan 24, 2013 New York

    Coors is sure doing everything in their power to make any associations with them tough to find. Label says "Band of Brewers Co, Ft Worth Tx", website is

    BA's are in the know, but how about the other 99.9% of beer drinkers?
    cnbrown313, Roguer and kemoarps like this.
  5. atomic

    atomic Disciple (328) Sep 22, 2009 Illinois
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    I don't think the 99.9% of beer drinkers care if its owned by coors or not. Certainly don't care that Blue Moon is Coors and gladly pay $6 for glass at a bar.
  6. Tballz420

    Tballz420 Meyvn (1,187) Mar 4, 2003 Minnesota

    What a moronic comment
  7. atomic

    atomic Disciple (328) Sep 22, 2009 Illinois
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    There any craft breweries that have money for national ad campaigns?
    JG-90, Swik and RobertColianni like this.
  8. Tballz420

    Tballz420 Meyvn (1,187) Mar 4, 2003 Minnesota

    Yeah, Sam Adams.

    They kept the sport alive while it was on its deathbed. Blind hatred of them from beer snobs is annoying
    ktblue22, zac16125, ejn22 and 117 others like this.
  9. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Aspirant (244) Sep 21, 2012 Texas
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    I actually thought it was another stupid sam adams brand until I saw the label said it was brewed in Fort Worth. The Coors Fort Worth brewery is only 10-15 minutes away from my house.
  10. mikeyv35

    mikeyv35 Zealot (577) Oct 15, 2008 New York
    Beer Trader

    Yes, the general public thinks Black Crown is higher end/craft beer because I have heard the masses talking about it. Scary! Amazing what money can do with mass marketing/advertising. However, I would not worry about BMC pushing their beer as craft or even attempting to get into craft beer brewing. What I am worried about is them simply buying their way into the craft market and eventually dominate the craft market w/ enough acquisitions. The bottom line is they have too much money and are too powerful to ever be completely pushed out of the way. Craft breweries as they grow just have to protect their industry by not selling out down the road to BMC and that is easier said then done when someone offers you a huge chunk of cash money, the kind that will make you and all your descendants never have to work again.

    The best we can do is to continue to educate the public on what craft beer is and how much more quality of a product it is over what BMC is producing, and at the same time preserve our industry by not selling out to the spoiled rich kid. This strategy will never get rid of the financial giant, but it will keep him at bay.
    KevinGordon, LeRose, JohnnyMc and 2 others like this.
  11. CassinoNorth

    CassinoNorth Disciple (304) Apr 5, 2013 New Jersey
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    There's enough Shaun Hills in the world to never worry about BMC owning all the craft breweries. Even so, they seem to be leaving Goose Island be enough to stick around being a great brewery. They know their market.
  12. mikeyv35

    mikeyv35 Zealot (577) Oct 15, 2008 New York
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    They are not stupid, simply buy Goose Island and let them do what they do, make great beer and alot of money. Where do you think the money goes? To the mighty machine.
    kemoarps likes this.
  13. mikeyv35

    mikeyv35 Zealot (577) Oct 15, 2008 New York
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    When you cannot compete with quality and craftsmanship you are forced to buy your way into the market and they have the capability to do that. Industry leaders just need to not succumb to the pressure of $$$$$.
    kemoarps likes this.
  14. atomic

    atomic Disciple (328) Sep 22, 2009 Illinois
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    Who said anything about blind hatred? All I said is that theyre not a craft brewery anymore. Not sure if you're aware of this, but theres an actually volume limit you can sell to be considered craft. Well the limit used to be smaller than it is now, and then Sam Adams surpassed it... what happened next was that Sam Adams changed the definition of craft beer (they have the power to do that apparantly) to accommodate their levels of production.

    When you're powerful enough to change the definition of craft brewery, you're probably not a craft brewery anymore.

    edit for numbers: It used to be 2 Million, and they had to up it to 6million to accommodate Sam Adams. Sierra Nevada is next biggest craft brewer and doesn't even reach 1 million
  15. BenTenison

    BenTenison Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2013 New Jersey

    I think what he is trying to point out though is the spirit of craft brewing still lives within the Boston Beer Company and surpassing the Brewer's Association's barrel limit doesn't make a company any less craft. Widmer by Brewer's Association definition is also not a craft brewery but try telling me they aren't and I will side with Tballz on the Beer Snob label.
    CoryR, hopheadwes, Roguer and 4 others like this.
  16. atomic

    atomic Disciple (328) Sep 22, 2009 Illinois
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    I get that. They definitely have the spirit of craft beer at heart, and their intentions are good. I'd argue they're in limbo between craft and macro.
    kemoarps likes this.
  17. CantorMan891

    CantorMan891 Initiate (0) Oct 28, 2012 Indiana

    I wouldn't. By putting up the capital to maintain separate production facilities and a special R&D-type facility, they are openly admitting they are a craft brewery. Also, they have nowhere near the power of the major macros. Let's not be mad at them for being able to break through the glass ceiling. Boston Lager, as I know is the case for many here, was my introduction to craft beer (not even a year ago, BTW, as I turned 21 last August and only then became a beer nut). The Brewer's Association does not rule me, you, or any of us. Sam Adams consistently tries new things, sometimes falling completely flat, but other times coming on to a stroke of genius. They don't have to do that. They could simply make Boston Lager and get by just fine, but they love the CRAFT of brewing and THAT is the true spirit of craft beer.
  18. atomic

    atomic Disciple (328) Sep 22, 2009 Illinois
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    Getting kinda preachy there. If they were purely in it for the love of craft, and damn what anyone thought, they wouldn't need to run adverts, they wouldn't need to change the rules to preserve their image. The bottom line is they care about their... bottom line. They've gone far from just being in it to make people happy, and now theyre motivated by profit. Certainly not at BMC levels of course. Obviously all brewers need to make a living, and if they could make a good living then all the better, but typically the motivation is not to make ever more increasing paychecks, but good beer, the paycheck being second priority. Thats why no other craft brewery, even ones as big as Sierra Nevada, run ads. Sure they can get more market share, and many could afford to do so, but they simply don't care to. They don't need to either.

    You don't have to agree with me. Sure Boston Lager a lot of people's gateway beer. Bluemoon is also a lot of people's gateway beer. For me it was 312. If I were 5 years late, 312 would be an ABinbev beer. Still would have done it for me.
    Roguer, kemoarps and Malaya like this.
  19. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,245) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Do you know why it used to be 2 Million? Because the Feds picked an arbitrary limit for tax purposes. So with this complaint you endorse Federal control over what we think of as craft beer and criticize the very people who may have led resistance to Government controls over the "spirit" of craft beer.
    deadliest likes this.
  20. atomic

    atomic Disciple (328) Sep 22, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I'm not endorsing anything. Point is, Sam Adam's makes a living out of being a CRAFT beer. If it lost its title as CRAFT beer, it would slow sales growth. So in order to grow sales, they changed the rules to allow them to hold on to the title of craft. 2million barrels is a lot of god damn beer if you ask me. They tripled that value. Nobody else even comes close. They did it purely for themselves so they could market better. Doesn't matter if the original amount was made by feds or martians, the motive behind changing it is what I'm calling them out on.
    kemoarps likes this.
  21. doopiedoopiedoo

    doopiedoopiedoo Initiate (0) Oct 2, 2010 Netherlands

    Craft or not craft... who cares???
    If the beer is good I'll drink it.
  22. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,284) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    The fact that you are here repeating the holier than thou crap that is the cheap and very effective advertising of the smaller breweries proves you don't need a big budget or tv ads to spread the word of how great you are, you can have beer geeks do it for you free. Newsflash: There are some brewers who are not in this for the profit, ALL the rest are in this to make money. They are called homebrewers.
  23. Lutter

    Lutter Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2010 Texas

    Shiner Bock/Spotzel has regional ad campaigns in Texas... does that count?

    I've always been a bit iffy if Shiner is craft though. (they're owned by Gambrinus)
  24. 5thOhio

    5thOhio Zealot (501) May 13, 2007 South Carolina

    Didn't this thread just run about 2 weeks ago?
  25. fredmugs

    fredmugs Poo-Bah (1,530) Aug 11, 2012 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    He changed the name of the title. That's called being crafty.
    ktblue22, Purp1eOne, saucy626 and 9 others like this.
  26. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Initiate (183) Jul 1, 2009 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Someone butthurt because Coors makes a beer that doesn’t fit into imaginary categories.
    AnchorBaby, Roguer and TMoney2591 like this.
  27. Hopportunistic

    Hopportunistic Aspirant (263) Jan 24, 2013 North Carolina

    I can assure you that Shiner is crap, not craft.
  28. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,245) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    You absolutely are endorsing Federal control over the definiton of craft beer. The 2 million part of the definition of craft brewer you seem so focused on was made (and changed) by the Feds (the IRS) for their own reasons and adopted by the Brewer's Association as part of their definition of a craft brewery. By hanging your "call out" on that particular amount (2 milliion) you are accepting and endorsing the idea that there should be a number as part of the definition of a craft brewery and that 2 million was the correct number to be part of that definition. Furthermore, by making your "call out" at all you are also thereby saying that anyone who disagreed for any reason with a numerical limit set at 2 milliion as part of the definition of a craft brewery was a bad guy for disagreeing with an arbitrary choice resulting from a Federal tax ruling.
  29. Herky21

    Herky21 Crusader (717) Aug 7, 2011 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    haha. literally. nice.
  30. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,303) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    The "Feds" never defined "craft beer". The Brewers Association, when created in 2005, simply used the TTB's (ex-ATF) Reduced Federal Excise Tax Rate for Small Brewers limit of "less than 2m bbl./yr" as their definition of "small brewer" (one of the 3 criteria of the B.A. for a "craft brewer"). The Feds have never changed that.

    That reduced rate was created in 1976 - before there was a "craft brewing movement". It was a joint creation and lobbying project of the then-two US brewing industry groups, the United States Brewing Association (the "Big brewers" group) and the Brewers Association of America (the "small brewers" group). The 2 million yearly barrelage limit was a pretty "natural" dividing line at the time. The #12 brewing company, Genesee, was at 2.5m bbl. Next came Pearl at #13, with about half that production - 1.3m bbl/yr. After that came two brewers under 1 million - Rainier (932k) and Lone Star (788k).

    Interestingly, within the next few years, all three of those "under 2m. bbl 'small' brewers" would be gobbled up by larger companies (S&P, Heileman and Olympia, respectively). So, that by 1980, the gap between the "large" and "small" had grown to well over a 2 million bbl/yr difference - With #11 Genesee at 3,400,000 bbl. and #12 Pittsburgh at 740,050 bbl.
    stayclean, paulys55, benart and 12 others like this.
  31. AngusOg

    AngusOg Meyvn (1,016) Apr 23, 2010 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    They don't know, and probably don't care.
  32. smutty33

    smutty33 Defender (605) Jun 12, 2009 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    Commercials on the radio kill me:

    Try our award winning(gold medal) 3rd shift amber ale!

  33. Rekrule

    Rekrule Initiate (0) Nov 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    Who gives a shit? It's an arbitrary number and an arbitrary label. It means nothing. It's like me saying that anyone on this site who has less than 100 posts is not a Beer Advocate, they are a Beer Enthusiast. It's a meaningless label given my a meaningless group.

    Getting hung up on the word "craft" is laughable. If you like a beer drink it.
    paulys55, Tavo2311, deadliest and 4 others like this.
  34. beerassociate

    beerassociate Initiate (0) Apr 21, 2011 New Jersey

    well you're definitely the first person to think of this, so kudos. If you enjoy the taste of a beer drink it, who cares where it comes from
    dan027 likes this.
  35. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    I care.

    I would have never thought 3rd shift was a craft beer, but I appreciate it when people call out a beer owned by BMC.
    benart, kemoarps, JohnnyMc and 2 others like this.
  36. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,303) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    Somebody at MC really screwed up and gave away this "secret". And you don't even have to click on the link, just by reading that URL the jig is up - "MillerCoors" > "Our Beers" > "Third Shift"

    Some BA's apparently aren't "in the know" enough to realize that SABMiller and MolsonCoors merged their respective US divisions into a single joint venture company, MillerCoors, in 2008. Or that Ft. Worth and Trenton, OH breweries where Third Shift Amber is currently brewed are former Miller facilities.

    Although it looks like the forthcoming "Third Shift Blonde Lager" (keg only so far) could be brewed in any of the MC breweries (even the 2 Leinenkugel breweries), based on the COLA listings.
    deadliest and drtth like this.
  37. RangnaR

    RangnaR Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2012 California

    Would it be safe to say that any brewery that sells 22oz/750mL bottles of beer for $100 or more a piece might be in it more for the money than the beer? I've been wondering about this...
  38. wintbs379

    wintbs379 Aspirant (225) Mar 13, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Don't you mean 2 days ago? It's amazing how many people on here have to call out BMC for their pseudo craft or whatever the hell it is. Let people drink whatever the hell they want to drink. Stop having to label everything.

    I'm sure there is a sizable group of people out there who maybe want to break away from BMC adjunct lagers, but aren't willing to fully dive into the "real craft" beer scene (as so many people here have to label it). Whether it be for economic reasons or they're unsure they'll like the tastes. BMC have the wherewithal to try whatever the hell they want, it's not going to stop. Deal with it.
    Roguer, dan027 and RobertColianni like this.
  39. jcb7472

    jcb7472 Zealot (503) Jul 13, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I've seen quite a few Leinenkugel commercials on TV lately, advertising their Summer Shandy. I won't be buying it.

    Question about Sam Adams not being considered craft because they've gotten too big: Sierra Nevada is getting huge and others are expanding quite a bit as well (Lagunitas, etc). Will you consider those breweries "not craft" in a few years?
    Roguer likes this.
  40. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Craft is just a word. Its lost it's meaning due to the ridiculous definitions. You have to judge a beer by the way it tastes.
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