CAMRA to change focus due to hipsters?

Discussion in 'British Isles' started by cavedave, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2011 England

    Most would use the American definition, or similar. New versions of classic styles, differing amounts of ingredients as well as experimenting with new ingredients, small scale production, an emphasis on big flavours etc. Not necessarily mutually exclusive to real ale in some cases either.
     
  2. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2011 England

    I would also add the general branding/image of the company, and the attitude of the brewers in many cases.
     
  3. gavinbrooksbank

    gavinbrooksbank Initiate (0) May 24, 2011 England

    Ok, thats fair enough and thats what it means to you, and you know in your mind what your parameters are for craft beer. but, so many of those things are ambiguous if we were talking about an organisation campaigning for it, for example

    new versions of classic styles - whats classic and which new versions are acceptable as craft? Tequila flavoured lager is a new version of a classic pilsner, no?

    Differing amounts of ingredients as well as experimenting with new ingredients - many big breweries experiment with ingredients such as corn, rice etc are they craft?

    Small scale production - how small is small? Brewdog are pretty big from where im looking, are they craft?

    Emphasis on big flavours - a craft brewery brews a subtle bitter, is that now not craft?

    General branding/image - yep, if they say theyre craft, they are
     
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  4. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2011 England

    I never said it was black and white. Just that there were general points which come to mind for many of us who don't over think such inconsequential matters.
     
  5. gavinbrooksbank

    gavinbrooksbank Initiate (0) May 24, 2011 England

    Well ok, we agree, craft is an inconsequential matter, just drink beer that you like
     
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  6. Kozel

    Kozel Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2014 Scotland

    This may be one of the most sensible posts I've read on here.
     
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  7. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2011 England

    Inconsequential matter but like it or not, it's a significant evolution of beer culture here (and indeed pretty much everywhere). That's why you can see elements of it in new and old breweries to different extents.
     
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  8. EmperorBevis

    EmperorBevis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,244) Sep 25, 2011 England
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Bet he'll get a warning for that type of thing lmao
     
  9. London_Gent

    London_Gent Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2014 England

    I like beer.
     
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  10. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    From the perspective of someone from outside the UK but with a deep appreciation for Real Ale formed during a couple of dozen visits to various areas of the UK for periods of a week to a month or more, this shift in focus seems to me to be addressing a real problem where CAMRA can continue to have an impact. Saving pubs is a way of helping keep real ale alive and well and it helps continue a very valuable institution that also seems critical to the continuation of Real Ale, so the contribution to saving pubs may wind up being even more important than what has already been accomplished.

    Re-focusing the CAMRA organization should be doable as it has successfully been accomplished before. As a US based example, the original March of Dimes organization was founded in the US to deal with the problem of infantile paralysis caused by Polio. After the invention of the Salk vaccine they shifted their focus to dealing with improving the health of mothers and babies. They are still going strong and having an impact.

    While the debate about what constitutes flavorful beer will continue unabated for many years and may never be resolved in some ways it reminds of re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic after the collision, the problem of pub closures is more immediate and serious in that it threatens a very important part of a way of life that contributes to keeping Real Ale alive and well.
     
  11. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Totally agree with your comments here. All I would add is that years ago I became confident that the energy of a Luddite faction could eventually be channeled in productive ways. It was on a visit to Loughborogh where I discovered that it was historically the location where the Luddites originally started and more currently was home to a University of Technology. :-)
     
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  12. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I realized that as this point, the word "craft" is so muddled in general, that we're better off simply trying to define styles as best we can.

    For example, a non-craft brewery (according to the BA in the US), like Goose Island can produce a tasty beer to my palate, in something like Honker's Ale, or for the geekier crowd, Bourbon County. These beers are considered "craft beer" but the brewery is not considered a "craft brewery". And the company that owns them, AB-InBev, produces beers that are not considered craft, in adjunct lagers like Bud Light.

    But a so-called "craft brewery" can easily produce an adjunct lager, but this doesn't necessarily make them a "macro brewery" or whatever term you'd like to use. There's no need to label the brewery or the beers "craft" or "macro", call the Honker's Ale an English Bitter, and the Bud Light an adjunct lager. The consumer will know what to expect (if they're a so-called "craft beer" fan).

    To make my long-winded post, well, longer, I'll address the topic. I don't think we need a word, we simply need people who want to make flavorful beer, whatever you'd like to call it. I don't think a definitely line needs to be drawn in the sand to classify what flavorful is, you know it when you drink it. :wink:
     
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  13. Georgefox

    Georgefox Devotee (380) Aug 19, 2013 England

    Exactly. Good beer is good beer regardless of who produced it and how. I am a camra member and I do find it a bit frustrating reading their newspaper and on the letters page are people complaining about the use of the word craft. One pointed out fosters lager has the word craft on the can. I think consumers deserve more credit to be able to understand fosters do not produce craft style beer.

    Camra does now recognise some keg and even cans and their festivals do feature more experimental beers than before. I think the biggest issue with kegs is that the beer is sold too cold and is always more expensive than cask ale, but you're missing out on a lot of interesting and good beer by discounting it. This includes kegs imported from the USA too.

    On the other hand there is the modern view that cask ale is boring. I think it can be if you're looking at the traditional big players like Greene King but a good quality pale ale or stout can taste and feel great from a cask if kept in good condition. The best beer bars and pubs here usually have a good mix of cask and kegs.
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    This may put me in bad sorts with the bulk of the CAMRA folks but IMO this is a good thing. Let the consumers select which beers they want to drink. And maybe even a mix of the two over the session!:slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
  15. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Yes, every UK pub, Czech tavern, German beer garden, and Belgian cafe should carry US-style 'craft' beer. While we're at it, they should also all carry every other culture's products so every tap wall looks the same the world over and the 'consumers' [who are equally monolithic] can decide. What a wonderful world that would be....
     
    #35 herrburgess, Apr 4, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
  16. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2011 England

    It's already happening, just replace US style Craft beer with US style adjunct lager.
     
  17. Georgefox

    Georgefox Devotee (380) Aug 19, 2013 England

    Do you feel the same about American Brewers that make hefeweizens, saisons and other European style beers? Should countries only make what is traditional to them and not try to innovate themselves?
     
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  18. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    This question isn't that simple.

    For the most part, I prefer breweries that have a specific focus. There's some that are experienced enough, and have had the time to perfect multiple styles, like Sierra Nevada. But I like to see regions and establishments that have specialties. Like Allagash with Belgian styles. Or in Europe, like Cantillon with lambics and Gueuze. And then regions of Germany like Bamberg with Rauchbier...etc.

    I don't want to walk into an Italian restaurant, and see German food, American Chinese food, and Thai food on the menu as well. I also don't want to go to Italy and see an American cheeseburger and egg rolls on the menu.

    My answer isn't straight forward, but neither is the question. I like having a variety of specialties and styles here in America, but I'd also question a company like Allagash if they all of a sudden came out with a Grapefruit IPA this summer.
     
  19. Lurchus

    Lurchus Zealot (733) Jan 19, 2014 Germany

    No it's not.
    Try finding US style adjunct lagers in rural parts of bavaria. You're way more likely to find US style craft beer there.
     
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  20. Georgefox

    Georgefox Devotee (380) Aug 19, 2013 England

    Good point, but my point really is that there are British brewers who release beers in both cask and keg formats. Usually the keg beer is the higher ABV styles and yes some may be influenced by the American scene but also many put a British stamp on it. Also as someone mentioned in the German version of this conversation is that people like hoppy beers worldwide and if brewers are putting out fresh IPA's brewed locally this is a good thing. Anyway, I still prefer the feel and temperature of cask ale. But things have to evolve and if CAMRA were to stick to their traditional definition then it would mean mostly drinking bland bitters in boring brewery licensed pubs of which still many exist. Not saying all bars have to be all things to all people, but the bars I like to frequent most and which are popular for their beer serve a range of beers on cask, keg and bottle/can and that includes from local, national and imported breweries in whatever style of beer they've chosen to brew. Cheers!
     
    JackHorzempa likes this.
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