"Can You Brew It" opinion

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by tngolfer, Jul 26, 2012.

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  1. tngolfer

    tngolfer Initiate (75) Feb 16, 2012 Tennessee

    Having listened to quite a few of these shows, I really don't like that Jamil and Tasty have the recipe from the brewmaster before they brew. Isn't that like taking a test after the teacher gives you all of the answers? I wish these guys would develop a recipe based on their sensory perception and then check their recipe and procedure with the brewmasters.
  2. MaxSpang

    MaxSpang Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2011 Ohio

    There's more to brewing than ingredients.
  3. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Disciple (372) May 2, 2006 Utah

    IIRC, early on they did not get as much, if any, info directly from the brewer. They were less successful at cloning then. These days they always seem to nail it. The upside to their discussion with the brewers is the discussion with the brewer, which is often quite entertaining. Some brewers are very free with info, and some clearly want to keep some stuff secret, which can make for an amusing interview on occasion. Perhaps the most entertaining thread through the set of shows is their attempt to clone Arrogant Bastard, which they have not quite nailed yet.
  4. mychalg9

    mychalg9 Champion (845) Apr 8, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I can see both arguments. On one hand, coming up with the recipe from scratch would be impressive, but so much more goes into making a beer than using the proper recipe. If they tried to do it from scratch it could take years to nail it, and even if they came up with the correct recipe they may have done something different in the process and not even realized they had the recipe correct. If it only took 5 minutes to make a beer I would tend to side with OP a little bit more.
  5. tngolfer

    tngolfer Initiate (75) Feb 16, 2012 Tennessee

    Of course but these guys get mash temp, boil time, hop schedule, yeast type, ferm temp, etc. given to them. They should nail it every time with that much info.
  6. cmmcdonn

    cmmcdonn Initiate (0) Jun 21, 2009 Virginia

    I disagree with the analogy. I see it like taking a guy who is the exact height, weight, and strength of Albert Pujols and saying "well you have all the tools he does, hit a 90-mph slider over the fence".

    I'm aware that I've exaggerated my analogy in the opposite direction, but the point is there is a lot of skill that is involved between recipe and finished product. It's by no means a "gimme"
    MaineMike and Grohnke like this.
  7. PangaeaBeerFood

    PangaeaBeerFood Initiate (0) Nov 30, 2008 New York

    They're not going for the "this kinda tastes like that" clones we see on homebrewing forums. They're trying their best to identically replicate often hard to brew beers (like 120-minute IPA) on a homebrewing system so that you can't distinguish between the professional and homebrewed versions. That is much more difficult to do than you'd think and requires much more than a recipe. The actual brewing system, storage conditions, quantitiy produced, etc., plays a HUGE role in the end result of the beer.

    Hell, a local brewery just upgraded from a 1BBL system to a 7BBL system. It's the same brewers using the same ingredients in the same location trying to replicate their own recipes and it took them a few months of tweaking before they could produce beer that tasted identical to that from the smaller rig.

    So yeah, that's why even with all the information given, a lot of beers get labeled "not cloned" at the end of the episode.
    Twal, hopfacebrew, StarRaptor and 3 others like this.
  8. Homebrew35

    Homebrew35 Initiate (0) Jul 4, 2010 Connecticut

    As far as sensory perception corresponding with recipe development, listen to their style shows.
    Some ingredients were selected based on taste or aroma, not style or historical data. Although you will probably get close to a style using historical data. Trying a replicate or make a particular style for the Jamil Show involved a large amount of sense and perception, brew, adjust and re-brew. CYBI seems like a "I love this beer, let me try to make it" have fun, bs with some great brewers and give the homebrew community some great recipes. I know most would not be able to just email a brewer and get the recipe for a widely known beer such as Ruination. Besides that one thy just give away. Citra Dipa, Raging Bitch, GF WCIPA. I'm a fan of the BN as you can tell, they've helped tons of homebrewers make better beer...end o rant.
  9. PangaeaBeerFood

    PangaeaBeerFood Initiate (0) Nov 30, 2008 New York

    Couldn't agree more. Their podcast on cloning 120-minute IPA had invaluable information that's made my high octane beers substantially better. The one on Meantime London Porter was bad-ass, too. Tons of great background info on the different ingredients and why the brewers specifically selected them.
    Homebrew35 likes this.
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,933) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    You made mention of the podcast on cloning Raging Bitch.

    The person who homebrewed that beer, Kim Wood, couldn’t obtain the proper hop varieties in time so she made hops substitutions. In addition Flying Dog uses a yeast from BSI in Colorado called El Diablo. They didn’t use that yeast but used WLP400 instead. After listing to all of those substitutions I had a difficult time understanding how they could make the claim this beer was successfully cloned. I have drank a lot of Raging Bitch and that beer is ‘defined’ by the Belgian yeast strain character (it has a lot of ‘Belgiany’ flavors) and the specific hops used (Flying Dog uses a split of Amarillo and CTZ for flavor/aroma).

    Homebrew35 likes this.
  11. Homebrew35

    Homebrew35 Initiate (0) Jul 4, 2010 Connecticut

    I love the shows and most of the results sound accurate, some times you can infer that the beer is slightly off or they tell you it's a bit different for xyz reasons. I've subbed some hops and malts before, just about ever brewer has with great success. Im going through most of the style show recipes now. I'll have to mix in the clone recipes to see what I can do. Side by side comparisons will be done. Raging bitch will be one of them. Maybe I can get a pitch from them when I go to MD next week.
  12. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,263) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Try and reproduce the same beer multiple times and if you can then try and do someone elses beer. Give the same kits of ingredients to 5 different brewers and you will get 5 different beers back.

    Many brewers have said that they have to blend or even dump batches when they more up to bigger systems. Efficiency and utilizations change, so the beer changes.

    I think JZ, Tasty, and crew do a find job on helping to understand how the pros make these beers. I am usually interested in techniques and procedures.
  13. tngolfer

    tngolfer Initiate (75) Feb 16, 2012 Tennessee

    How many times have you listened to the show and at the end they say something like, "Well the color is a little off and I would say it's about 5 IBUs off but I'd consider that cloned"? If they are going for exact/cloned, they seem very liberal with their clone definition.

    Don't get me wrong, I love listening to the show and I have learned A LOT from listening to it. These guys are having fun and making a living doing it and in the process they are helping a lot of us understand our hobby/obsession more and make better beers. This was just my op-ed post.
  14. FarmerTed

    FarmerTed Aspirant (281) May 31, 2011 Colorado

    A lot of the differences they percieve can just be due to the freshness of the homebrew vs. the commercial beer. It's hard to nail the ibu's when you're talking about a constantly moving target. OTOH, the recent Ska Mexican Logger show was a clear example of them just sort of blowing off the beer. JP said he brewed a cidery mess, but they called it good because they didn't want to re-do it. The recipe is probably fine, and if Dr. Scott had done it, I'm sure the beer would have been good. I brewed the London Pride clone, and let me tell you, it's pretty damn close to the real thing, although I've never had it fresh or un-pasteurized. You just have to mentally extrapolate. I like the clone better, anyway.
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