Site Changes: Beer Hads, Full Reviews & Ratings

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. dianimal

    dianimal Initiate (161) Apr 18, 2012 California

    After reading all these comments, I think I am going to stop using the "hads" and keep a better journal at home. beeradvocate will just be a source (for me, at least) to look up beers.
    cosmicevan likes this.
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,553) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    I'm running on 3 hours of sleep, but off the top of my zombie brain ...
    • Creates a visual element for Hads and generates more activity.
    • It shows those who Had that their opinion counts.
    • Encourages more participation.
    • There's now a "Consider writing a full review" callout when a user views their Had in-line.
    • It's also there in preparation for upcoming features related to the site redesign and mobile apps.
    We're confident that once things settle down from the initial shock of change the value of all of this will become more apparent for some.
    UncleJimbo likes this.
  3. liamt07

    liamt07 Poo-Bah (2,349) Jul 26, 2009 Ontario (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    How about instead of having all of the reviews and "hads" pop up on the page when someone accesses a beer, simply keep the reviews as the default page and let people click if they want to see the hads, as if one were sorting by Highest, Lowest or Top Reviewers (a bit like how it was before the switch I guess). I figure, if I'm accessing the page, I want it to look more like a review site than Untappd or something.

    EDIT: I guess Todd already answered this.
  4. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Defender (637) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Whatever your concern or complaint, like the changes or hate them, you'll get used to it, I'm sure.
    MikeEhrmantraut likes this.
  5. Treebs

    Treebs Initiate (0) Apr 18, 2011 Illinois

    As long as I'll be able to filter out the "Hads" in some way I'll be a happy camper and I'm sure a lot of other people will be as well.
    cosmicevan and Etan like this.
  6. orangesol

    orangesol Poo-Bah (2,355) Dec 6, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Ok....but if I am standing at a store later today looking to buy a bottle of beer how is listing hads along with the reviews helping me decide? I would say the majority of users do exactly that and I doubt this change will help them find what they are looking for.

    Like I said, I definitely think including had's is a great idea, but when I want to see what people had to say about the beer I am looking to buy I don't want to have to sift through 20+ had scores before I find a single review.

    EDIT: This.
  7. xnicknj

    xnicknj Initiate (0) May 25, 2009 Pennsylvania

    i'd like this feature as well. i never look up a beer to see "hads" whereas i'll frequently look things up so i can read some recent reviews to establish a better handle on whether a particular beer is worth buying/trading for/etc. this is also useful with vintages/retired beers to see how they're aging.
  8. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,553) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    This was mentioned in the orignal post, confirmed throughout the thread and should address some concerns.
    Etan and BeerKangaroo like this.
  9. BeerKangaroo

    BeerKangaroo Initiate (0) May 30, 2011 Alaska

    I only use the hads for three things: 1) a beer I could not say enough about generally BMC stuff 2) a beer I did not have a full pint of and didn`t feel worthy to say something constructive about, and 3) a beer I did not review within three days of having it but remember enough about to quick tick it to hopefully come back to it someday. So in turn, I now won`t review BMC stuff anymore, won`t bother having a little measly sample at beer events, and make sure I tick off the people I`m with while out on the town as my face will now be stuck to my android.
  10. tectactoe

    tectactoe Initiate (0) Mar 20, 2012 Michigan

    Does anybody know why when you look at the Top Beers list, Heady Topper has a 4.7, but if you go to the "Beers of Fame" list, it only has a 4.47 ? Still some kinks getting worked out, I assume? Or do these lists get calculated differently?
  11. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,553) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    Scroll down to the bottom of the list. It's (always been) explained there and has nothing to do with this update.
  12. tectactoe

    tectactoe Initiate (0) Mar 20, 2012 Michigan

    Oh, heh. I guess I never really noticed this before. :confused: Shows how observant I am!!

  13. Franch

    Franch Devotee (451) Mar 22, 2011 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    i think this is right. the hads are productive for the numerical rating, but what use is a 4.5 blank review on a reviews page?
  14. LampertLand

    LampertLand Poo-Bah (1,684) Nov 2, 2011 British Columbia (Canada)

    Two days ago I lost my 'cask' reviews on four beers (the I can't rate a beer twice , ok:slight_frown: ) and was really bummed about that , now I'm bit confused as this morning hads/reviews are joined , the time taken to write a review should deserve a little more credit than had (tickers , ie '1':angry: ) , so I'm goin with the flow and just made a had into a review using the .25 increments :grinning: , and would like to see only one change , when viewing any Beeradvocate's review's , not just mine , the ability to sort/view the hads/reviews as you can by beer/brewery , or ABV , or your personal rating .... that's all and thanks Jason & Todd
    (as for the changes , cheers , brost LampertLand)
  15. Ungertaker

    Ungertaker Devotee (447) Apr 30, 2010 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    I am a firm believer that, if "hads" remain part of the equation, they should always be weighted in a lesser manner. That way, those who use "hads" as a way to tick and nothing else don't leave so much of a dent on the overall score.
    yemenmocha and BeerKangaroo like this.
  16. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (5,341) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    Supporter Beer Trader

    Gotcha. I don't feel so bad now.
  17. UCLABrewN84

    UCLABrewN84 Poo-Bah (12,229) Mar 18, 2010 California

    When can we expect to see this happen?
  18. sommersb

    sommersb Initiate (0) May 25, 2010 Tennessee

    If I'm looking into a beer for more info, I will read several reviews to gauge the main characteristics and try to determine if it's my cup of tea, er, beer. Having the Hads show up with the reviews just seems like an annoyance in my opinion. I already know the scores the beer has received at that point and I'm looking for some details, not just tick scores.
  19. AxesandAnchors

    AxesandAnchors Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2012 Oregon

    Along these same lines what if there was a toggle much like the Bros one that floated reviewers that have higher ratings (as reviewers) to the top. That way someone wanting to really learn as much as they can about a beer before purchasing it could do so. I know that is the main reason I used BA, for a good two years before ever becoming a member. I think the likelihood of beer drinkers becoming craft drinkers is much higher if they have more successes in the beginning, so anything you can do to help facilitate that will be a great asset to the community. Obviously something like this requires a considerable amount of coding, but maybe it could be implemented in the relative future.

    [edit] I just went to a beer page and saw "top reviewers", is this based on merit or quantity that that person has reviewed?
  20. badbeer

    badbeer Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2005 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    Sad change, IMO. Should just get rid of rating things via Hads and change them to ticks (as in had it or not, but no score). Hads ratings say nothing about why you liked a beer or did not.
  21. BeerKangaroo

    BeerKangaroo Initiate (0) May 30, 2011 Alaska

    Agreed, I just went through and deleted all "63" hads that were on my list. I'm not gonna be that "guy" that rose or brought down a beer's rating based on a sample (not a full pint), not enough to say on the beer, or didn't write notes down on the beer while I had it on tap.
  22. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Poo-Bah (1,743) Jan 24, 2011 United Kingdom (England)

    Does anyone else have it so they can't actually access reviews they just did?

    I just added and reviewed it, but when I go on that link the place where the review should be is blank. It doesn't appear on my hads/ratings list either.

    This update is bloody awful. Good effort for trying to listen to users and improve, but still it turned out pretty rubbish.
  23. LeRose

    LeRose Meyvn (1,183) Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts
    Supporter Subscriber

    I could have sworn it was working a few minutes ago...could be wrong, maybe?

    I'm a noob here, relatively speaking, so am in the "wait and see" mode. I don't even feel I have the right to an opinion one way or another. I work hard on keeping my beer journal (Excel spreadsheet at home, iPad to annoy people at a bar or restaurant). I also know I am ridiculous when it comes to research and rely heavily on the written reviews versus the numerical scores of any kind. When I try a new style, I want to see the comments mreo than the numbers so I can understand what the style is all about. As long as I can filter out the numbers only, I'm good.

    Liking or rating reviews - not sure how that would work out as a weighting tool. As anal as I am about research, I am not going to read hundreds of reviews. I am going to scan, read some at random, find the avatars I recognize, and also find the highs and lows to read.

    I also think that using the simple scale on the "hads" can be done just as well as a full written review for those who take the time and treat it the same (i.e. Hanzo and others). The issue, as I understand it, is the "tickers" who just try a beer to say they have had it and don't put any thought into rating it properly by either method. Not sure that picture changes either way - somebody in a hurry can do a quick review, blurb out the standard language for the style, and off to the next one. I have a lot to learn, but I do put the effort in to do things right, and would no matter what method I was using. I choose to write reviews because I am doing it anyway in my own notes and it also helps me understand more when I see how what I wrote agrees or disagrees with the more experienced reviewers - my number scores tend to be more "off" than my written notes most times.

    I think the upcoming graphs will be very helpful - nice visual display of the scores - and we will be able to see outliers or skewed data quite nicely.

    I'll go sit back in the noob corner now...
    dianimal likes this.
  24. pixieskid

    pixieskid Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2009 Germany

    it's not a contest, you know what you had and whether or not you liked them...if you keep the simple concept of "I enjoy beer(s) for myself, then you wont care who knows what you had"...
    Brunite likes this.
  25. Grohnke

    Grohnke Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2009 Illinois

    Im not sure you got his/her point.. no where did he/she say "i do this so other people know how much or what i drink". It fun to keep a log if youre a reviewer, i'd be bummed if my shit got erased too.
    Gonzoillini, Bitterbill and DaveHack like this.
  26. papat444

    papat444 Initiate (0) Dec 28, 2006 Quebec (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    In the process of doing the same thing myself. Deleting most of my hads except the most recent ones since they were full servings. The others were just part of the initial excitement of having "hads" :stuck_out_tongue:
  27. ubenumber2

    ubenumber2 Devotee (468) Sep 1, 2012 Arkansas
    Beer Trader

    Thanks for all the hard work for making such an awesome site , just know we all appreciate it
    dianimal and Todd like this.
  28. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,553) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    Update: Filtering Hads

    When viewing a beer page, you can now filter out Hads. You'll find the checkbox on the same row as the "Sort by." Simply click to toggle your view. Works when spanning multiple pages of reviews for a beer. I'm also setting a cookie so it'll remember your setting for a little while (only on your current browser). Simply click it again if it expires.

    I might rename the text, but the checkbox is there and working.

  29. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,290) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    This is absolutely true. Guess who now is considered the core user base? Hint: Not you, not me, not those whose thoughtful and careful critiquing of beers linked in google searches brought others to the site. We obviously don't purchase enough of the products that pay this site's bills, nor any longer provide the kind of user input that makes this site popular.

    I was intrigued by the idea of being able to read reviews done with care and love, and the ability to use those reviews to accurately choose beers to buy, that was what brought me here. I am sure that is true for you, and most of the beer geeks you and I socialize with. Now it will be more another click destination for the untappd badge hunters who will be MIA and getting badges of some other faddy trend in a couple years.
    ehammond1, cosmicevan and yemenmocha like this.
  30. Jeffo

    Jeffo Poo-Bah (2,727) Sep 7, 2008 Netherlands

    100 characters? The detailed reviews are what made this place different than Ratebeer. That is a step in the wrong direction if you ask me.

    Otherwise, looking forward to the full upgrade. Cheers for all the hard work!

  31. mdaschaf

    mdaschaf Poo-Bah (2,671) Mar 28, 2010 Washington
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I like this functionality, as many others will. Is there anyway to see how many of the total reviews are made up of written reviews vs. hads?
  32. Alieniloquium

    Alieniloquium Poo-Bah (5,562) Dec 16, 2008 Florida
    Beer Trader

    If nothing else changes, I would appreciate a simple change. Please bring back the time and date stamp for reviews. I know it says the time since the review in months, but isn't exact enough for any investigative purposes. It's a remarkably helpful tool when attempting to determine release dates for rotating batches.
    dianimal, cosmicevan and ehammond1 like this.
  33. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,553) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    Not yet. I'll look into it though.
  34. DaveAnderson

    DaveAnderson Devotee (479) Jan 11, 2011 Minnesota

    It is impressive how well you guys have responded to the feedback you have gotten on this change. I do not agree with those who object to piece-wise updates. The conversation with your users has probably resulted in a better set of changes than you would have cooked up on your own.

    You guys have done a great job with this, in my opinion.
    Alieniloquium likes this.
  35. kscaldef

    kscaldef Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    People Are Drinking Beer Wrong!!! We Must Stop This Calamity!!!

    BTW, immediately before you, Todd posted that you can now filter out the Hads and just view full reviews. So, I assume you're happy now, right?
  36. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,553) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    You raise a good point. Are you looking for the date the beer was added, first reviewed or for ever single rating? I'm not sure I'd want to do this for all ratings, but I'm more than willing to explore options.
  37. ubenumber2

    ubenumber2 Devotee (468) Sep 1, 2012 Arkansas
    Beer Trader

    One reason that I like the reviews is to see when someone says " This beer sucked but the best buy date was 2 years ago and I have had it in the trunk of my car while living in southern California" LOL
  38. Alieniloquium

    Alieniloquium Poo-Bah (5,562) Dec 16, 2008 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I would find it most helpful for all ratings. When I'm researching different batches of beer, I look back particularly at reviews where people listed bottling information. Some people list "Batch 3," for example, and I can look back to find the first rating of Batch 3. It's never perfect, but it gives me a ballpark figure.
    Also very helpful for determining freshness of IPAs from breweries who don't bottle date and when breweries have rotating beers on tap. Just yesterday I used it to figure out about how old a bottle of Broo Doo was.
    Thanks for looking into it.
    dianimal likes this.
  39. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,553) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    Thanks. Anyone who's been around a while knows that this is how we roll.

    However some are forgetting that we conducted a survey this summer to get feedback from our users. It pays to follow the Announcements forum.
  40. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,290) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    There are no rights or wrongs, there are those who do things one way, those who do them another. Thanks for your post, we both have our opinions, you and I, though mine was matter of fact, and yours was wildly hysterical and foolish in nature.
    coreyfmcdonald likes this.
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