Concentrated Beer?

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Todd, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,499) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    As brewers explore ways to make beer more sustainable (from farm to consumer), one solution could be beer concentrators.
    Nested what?
    How will it get served?
    There's no way this is going to taste like beer!
    Are any established breweries producing beer using BrewVo tech?
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/...fore-shipping-also-cuts-its-carbon-footprint/
     
  2. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    Very skeptical here. This sort of manipulation might look fine on the gas chromatograph or infrared spectrometer but drinkers will know better. And it's not conserving water, just shipping costs. Would love to be wrong but...
     
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  3. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,281) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Gee, why didn't anyone thing of this before?:thinking_face:

    Oh, wait...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,120) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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  5. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    And it didn't catch on for some reason.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,120) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    But Coors Light on the East Coast circa 1992 sure did.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers!
     
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  7. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,499) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

     
  8. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    I think this is more like standard high gravity brewing that the big boys have been doing for a long time.
     
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  9. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Guess you missed the section about the competition?
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,120) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Very likely but isn't "concentrated beer", concentrated beer? :thinking_face:

    Cheers!
     
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  11. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    Double or triple strength is not the same as super concentrated and chemically manipulated. I will give it a taste if anyone offers me some but probably won't purchase any.
     
  12. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    Skeptical there too. How stiff was the competition?
     
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  13. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Believe me, I could be crowned King of Skeptics, but I like to get some facts down first before I go into full-tilt denial.

    I was skeptical about the Impossible Burger, but I tried it. And was pretty surprised.
     
  14. officerbill

    officerbill Champion (820) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society Trader

    Water is removed and you end up with a box containing uncarbonated, concentrated NA beer and a box containing the removed alcohol. These are transported to a bar where special taps reconstitute the “beer” on demand, add the desired amount of alcohol, and force carbonates the product.

    Water itself (pH levels, dissolved solids, etc) is an important part of a beer's flavor. Reconstitution with purified or (filtered?) tap water is going to change the taste of the beer, not to mention what forced carbonation at point of sale will do; especially if it is a matter of just adding carbonated water to the beer concentrate.

    The article compares the beer concentrate to soft drink syrup and I can't imagine getting a quality beer from some version of a fast food soda dispenser.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (2,281) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Well, not sure what happened but the Feds sure were ready:
    This regulation (from the above) probably helped put the brakes on it.
    Yeah, that was one of the few times the general public found out about high gravity brewing via the mainstream press (the other, for me at least, was when Michelob Light was rushed to the market in the 1970s and one of the leading news magazines explained that ML was just further-diluted Michelob brewed via High Gravity method).

    I liked this argument, paraphrased:

    COORS - Well, you do it, too!:stuck_out_tongue:
    ANHEUSER-BUSCH - Well, yeah -:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: BUT WE DO IT ALL IN ONE BREWERY!
     
  16. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Back in the '70s I couldn't imagine ever liking frozen pizza, but they've sure come a long way since.
     
  17. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    It could/probably will happen someday. I would like that (imagine beer that cannot go stale - if they get the packaging right). Not convinced that day is today.
     
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  18. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Can anyone else remember the dawn of brew-pubs? I can remember being so excited to try something new from someplace other than a city 100 miles in either direction.

    Many others scoffed and turned away, but damn if it wasn't the start of something big.
     
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  19. sharpski

    sharpski Meyvn (1,202) Oct 11, 2010 Svalbard & Jan Mayen Islands
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    Since it’s my competition in question, I’ll tell you the category was not large, but it was run with the same standards as the American IPA category: if no entry is worthy of a gold, silver, or bronze medal, no medal is awarded rather than bumping up the next best entry.

    From personal experience, I can vouch for the Deschutes Irish-Style Dry Stout being convincing as a “regular” beer to style.
     
  20. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    OK, if I see it I will try it.
     
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  21. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,499) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    Different times. Different issues. Different motivators to help ensure that your business is around in ten years.
     
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  22. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    I remember this well. I was a homebrewer living in CO during the 1986-1990 dawn of brewpubs. Could not wait to visit Boulder Beer and Wynkoop as soon as they opened. This was the same time that quality yeast became available to homebrewers and that was a big game changer as well.
     
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  23. UrbanCaveman

    UrbanCaveman Crusader (711) Sep 30, 2014 Ohio
    Trader

    This just sounds like an eisbock with extra steps.
     
  24. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    Interesting way to look at it! Not quite the same but enough to inspire some thought. Thank you!
     
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  25. officerbill

    officerbill Champion (820) Feb 9, 2019 New York
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    Nothing is much better for a certain combination of intoxication & laziness
     
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  26. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Nah. Eisbock leaves the alcohol in the "concentrate." :grin:
     
  27. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    You dissin' the Lone Ranger on me now? :wink:

    So... baking a frozen pizza is lazier than ringing up the local for delivery? :laughing:

    (And yeah, I've made my share of home made pizzas -- dough and all. :wink:)
     
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  28. officerbill

    officerbill Champion (820) Feb 9, 2019 New York
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    The microwave isn't going to judge me :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  29. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    Unless it's a wifi-enabled "smart" microwave...
     
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  30. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Microwaved pizza? Eee-yuck! :nauseated_face::wink:
     
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  31. billandsuz

    billandsuz Devotee (489) Sep 1, 2004 New York

    Sounds like the answer to a question nobody asked.

    Making beer "more sustainable" is clearly desirable, and the industry is notoriously wasteful of resources, water in particular. It's kind of dirty secret that few want to address.

    That said, DFH and SN have done a lot of work on this, and they actually make a good product people want to buy.

    I am hesitant to discredit a product I have never tried but let's be serious, this stuff is a curiosity at best and I'm feeling pretty confident that the beer suuuuucks.

    Maybe it's just me.
    Cheers
     
  32. rgordon

    rgordon Meyvn (1,159) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Slightly different process, but B United International brings some unfinished Euro beers stateside and finishes them off. It seems to work just fine.
     
  33. zid

    zid Poo-Bah (1,629) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Well, that should abate the concerns of the connoisseurs. :wink:

    I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how this would be realistically implemented regarding the rehydration in a way that makes business sense while maintaining reasonable control of the product... and specifically, who would be doing the rehydration and at what scale. Would an average craft brewer actually want every bar adding the alcohol, carbonation, and water to their product? It seems like something that would work more with a hypothetical AB InBev run tied house than anything else (and even more so if it was one of those self-serve beer tap places that I guess never took off).

    I suppose an extremely big craft brewer with nationwide distribution and only one brewery can build a facility on the other side of the country dedicated to large scale rehydration and packaging... but it would have to be more attractive than building a second brewery (and then there's the issue of who is handling the concentrate shipping).

    Am I just being dense? Help me out.

    And on the environmental side of things, as is usually the case, people only present a limited picture of the realities. What is the environmental impact of adding in all of this extra process to beer production? Surely there is some. The impact of shipping is going to depend on the distance of shipping.

    How do you feel about companies using competitions as a marketing opportunity for their product? Obviously, I don't mean in the traditional way of brewers advertising their competition medals for certain beers. I mean for cases similar to this one where a non-brewing company might state that judges from a certain competition couldn't distinguish between a beer made one way and a beer made another way. Did the company make their intentions known to you beforehand?
     
  34. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (576) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    A thorough reading will show that this process saves no water whatsoever. It just changes the location of water consumption. So maybe if the factory was in New Orleans and they shipped to Phoenix and Las Vegas, it might make a little environmental sense. As far as making a quality product with this process, it sounds like a very steep climb into a hurricane force headwind.
     
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  35. UrbanCaveman

    UrbanCaveman Crusader (711) Sep 30, 2014 Ohio
    Trader

    Yep. Extra steps. :laughing:
     
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  36. readyski

    readyski Aspirant (283) Jun 4, 2005 California
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    This topic always brings me back to some backpack trips a while back, where we would be lamenting about some magical instant beer, just add water (and magic I suppose) Sounded like a good idea, remove 95%+ of the weight. That transitioned into instant helium to carry our loads and devolved from there.
     
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  37. sharpski

    sharpski Meyvn (1,202) Oct 11, 2010 Svalbard & Jan Mayen Islands
    Society Trader

    :grin:
    They didn’t tell me about it beforehand (Todd’s post with the quote was the first I’d heard of it) and they didn’t need to. I’m always interested to learn details like that, but I get that there was no incentive or benefit to them in revealing that info. As for them referencing the competition, I’ll take all the industry publicity I can get. :wink:

    I can see where some might conclude that it means the judges were duped, but I think most would see the claim as validation that beers made this way taste as good as the best “normal” beers.
     
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  38. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (4,359) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon
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    I liked it too until i read the awfully unhealthy ingredients.
     
  39. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (4,359) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon
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    THey used to sell coffee like that..thick and syrupy..just add water..but i guess the freeze dried instant is even lighter.
     
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  40. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,101) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Same here -- highly processed. No wonder it tasted good. :rolling_eyes:
     
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