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Counterfeit Cantillon John Chris Nomad

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by JealousChalice, Jun 11, 2012.

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  1. JealousChalice

    JealousChalice Feb 28, 2011 California

    I feel obligated to report to the community that, unfortunately, counterfeit Cantillon John Chris Nomad bottles exist. I have in my cellar a genuine JCN, and I recently received another "JCN" as part of a trade. Placing them next to each other, it was obvious to me. Look very closely at the labels. The authentic labels have razor-sharp graphics, whereas the counterfeit labels contain graphics which are granular and were printed on a high-quality printer. I confirmed this with Jean at Cantillon.

    MY OPINION: Since the JCN beer itself shares some similarity with Cantillon Classic Gueuze, it makes sense why JCN was selected to counterfeit; many people tasting it probably would think it is genuine. This might also explain why some of the reviews indicate that JCN tastes the same as Classic Gueuze.

    All of this makes me quite sad, actually.
  2. phillyswear

    phillyswear Nov 26, 2009 Colorado

    Where did the person you received it from get the bottle?
    TBCHopscotch032 likes this.
  3. DarthKostrizer

    DarthKostrizer May 13, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    This is a huge problem in the beer industry. I know that it has happened with VE 02 and I'm sorry that this happened to such a great guy like you Chris. Personally I think you should call the guy out.
  4. Alpar

    Alpar Apr 13, 2009 Wisconsin

    Please post High Res pictures, if possible.
    AleWatcher, jedwards, aasher and 2 others like this.
  5. stupac2

    stupac2 Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    I suppose it was just a matter of time. Sucks though.
  6. futura123

    futura123 Jul 29, 2010 California

    Do you mind to post the pictures side by side and some zoom-in to details about the difference? In case I have only one bottle of JCN, how can I know if my bottle is counterfeit or real?
  7. Alpar

    Alpar Apr 13, 2009 Wisconsin

    The counterfeiter should be called out or at least divulge where he/she received said bottle.
    rvdoorn and brystmar like this.
  8. sendsilk

    sendsilk Aug 31, 2007 Florida
    Beer Trader

    Thailand, the same places I get me fake rolexes and my wife's knock-off Louis Vitton purses.
    tacosandbeer and FUNKPhD like this.
  9. JealousChalice

    JealousChalice Feb 28, 2011 California

    I suspect the bottles are genuine 2011 Cantillon Classic Gueuze that have been stripped of their original labels and relabeled with fake JCN labels. The cork indicates 2011 bottling, just as the genuine JCN does.
  10. Alpar

    Alpar Apr 13, 2009 Wisconsin

    It really stinks that this is the route that "rare" craft beer is going. Luckily you didn't purchase the bottle or trade for that fake. It's also good that you had an authentic bottle to make a comparison. Sad day for craft beer, even though, I think, this has been happening for awhile now...

    However, it is awesome that you were extra'd a bottle of Classic Gueze ;)
  11. JealousChalice

    JealousChalice Feb 28, 2011 California

    The dude who traded this to me is working on replacing the fake JCN with a genuine one. So I'll be make whole on my trade, one way or another. The thing is, if I hadn't had a genuine JCN in my cellar to compare it with, I probably would not have noticed the counterfeit.
    tacosandbeer likes this.
  12. brystmar

    brystmar Sep 2, 2009 Texas

    Reminds me of this fascinating article from the New Yorker about the Jefferson bottles (wine). Everyone feared this practice in thievery would someday permeate the beer community, and now it seems to have arrived. I feel for you, OP; please post details about how/where/from whom the bottle was acquired.
    Rempo likes this.
  13. Alpar

    Alpar Apr 13, 2009 Wisconsin

    Oh, I thought you were extra'd that bottle. Sorry I am two pliny's in right now :)

    Glad the trader is trying/going to make it right.
  14. DavoleBomb

    DavoleBomb Mar 29, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Can't wait for every new limited release having certificates of authenticity included with the beers.
    SpottedZombie and Alpar like this.
  15. JealousChalice

    JealousChalice Feb 28, 2011 California

    More details will follow. I am giving the dude the opportunity to carry out his own due diligence before we out the source. He said he received it from someone in Belgium. I need to figure out how to post images here...
  16. brystmar

    brystmar Sep 2, 2009 Texas

  17. ShogoKawada

    ShogoKawada May 31, 2009 Pennsylvania

    we all knew this was coming. That's a major league bummer, but with the increased value shame spiral going on these days it was a matter of time.
  18. JealousChalice

    JealousChalice Feb 28, 2011 California

    I took some photos of the fake label, but the counterfeit label is good enough where the photos I'm able to take aren't capturing the subtle differences. The naked eye is the most powerful tool here. I'm hoping that if you read my description of the differences, you should be able to recognize the fake. Look very closely at the label, particularly the "Nomad" text. The red and black areas should be pure, and the transitions from black to red around the letters should be razor sharp, with no granularity or pixelization. The rear label should have a pure white background with sharp black text, even the extremely small text here is sharp on the genuine label. The counterfeit rear label has a slight pinkish background with less sharp text, the smallest of which, down at the bottom of the back label, is just a blur. I hope that helps. Cheers
    tacosandbeer, ehammond1 and Alpar like this.
  19. ShogoKawada

    ShogoKawada May 31, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I thought that was mean and edited. Rare whale trading is sketchy, IMO. Way too easy to fake. Wouldn't be surprised if this has happened dozens and dozens of times. Think of the profit margin!
  20. JohnGalt1

    JohnGalt1 Aug 10, 2005 Idaho
    Beer Trader

    This is soooo very... very... sad.

    I wish the OP the best... and I hope his trading partner was duped too.

    That said, I also hope the OP puts his trading partner out here in the forum to keep other folks from getting the same treatment.

    I have been worried about this type of shit for years... Back when I first started trading, I was totally geeked out and my Father sent me an article about counterfeit Westvleteren. He is not a "beer guy" but stumbled across something and forwarded it to me. I assured him that this would never happen on BA. About a month later, I am pretty sure I received a growler of "Younger" that was not the real deal. I never mentioned it to the trading partner because I had no proof. A year or so later, I realized that Younger was a PITA to acquire (even back then). April growlers of "Younger"? Nope.... not likely. BTW, that trading partner is long since banned.

    Anyway... I hate that this has happened... Nothing but props and good karma to the OP.

    Cheers, Toby.
    afksports likes this.
  21. beerdweeb

    beerdweeb Nov 28, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    Why not just post the pictures? It would be interesting to see them side by side nonetheless.
    Exiled likes this.
  22. Spider889

    Spider889 Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    So I am confused... a non-Cantillon bottle was relabled from a home printer and says John Chris Nomad on it? Shouldn't the labels be identical to ensure the hoax?

    Maybe I am just misunderstanding - hence the desire to see photos. Also, show a side by side as well as individual close ups (even if you only capture 1/4 of the label) as this ought to be able to show the differences you mention.

    Edit: at first the search from my phone wasn't pulling up the nomad beer page... finally found it and I understand now I think (this was a beer I hadn't heard of before).
  23. digita7693

    digita7693 Jan 19, 2010 Germany
    Beer Trader

    I think pictures would go a long way.
    Without it, I, like many others, am curious how you can be so sure.

    What exactly did you confirm with Jean at Cantillon?
    Could there be a variation in the printing from Jean (the chocolate store owner) and Chris (the beer store owner)?
    I know when I got bottles of Blabaer before Jeppe was putting the labels on himself.

  24. PapaEugene

    PapaEugene Jun 8, 2009 Netherlands

    Can you show us some pictures?
  25. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Jun 4, 2009 Netherlands

    Pictures or it didn't happen :cool: But seriously, if counterfeit bottles were made, it is a ******* disgrace. I agree with the other posters though, that if you post about possible counterfeit bottles, please provide the visual evidence (otherwise everybody can just bring stories into the world). Especially the differences in the rear label that were mentioned should be easily visible on picture, with nowadays technology :) (pinkish background, completely blurred small letters). Also, the real label is a bit shiny from what I remember. How is that with the fake ones? And for me it is also difficult to believe these counterfeit bottles originate from Belgium. There is no beer hype and secondary market like in the USA....
  26. digita7693

    digita7693 Jan 19, 2010 Germany
    Beer Trader

    Mar02x, Holland and rvdoorn like this.
  27. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Jun 4, 2009 Netherlands

    shiny labels indeed. Mine look the same, my bottles originate directly from Chris. I think this topic is a hoax, nothing more nothing less. No pictures until now (even though with decent camera everybody can take a detailed picture, even with a mobile phone). Also the guy who sent the fake bottle to the OP didn't come out yet, and nobody else reported fake labels, although after this topic, most people checked their bottles. No email from Jean, nothing. Maybe the OP is home-printing the counterfeit labels right now to "prove" his point ;)
  28. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    I remember a guy asking for hi res scans of cantillon labels not to long ago and immediately thought of something like this happening.
  29. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Jun 7, 2005 New York

    I'd imagine that he's probably sleeping right now.
  30. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Jun 4, 2009 Netherlands

    thats why I put a ;), was more meant as a joke. Just to be sure, I contacted Cantillon for this. Still waiting for their answer.
  31. treyrab

    treyrab Aug 26, 2007 California
    Beer Trader

    How and why would Jean agree there are counterfeits of his product on the market, without solid pictorial evidence?
    beerdweeb likes this.
  32. BeRanger

    BeRanger Dec 11, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I can't remember his name, just remember his avatar. I believe he was a long-time BA with activity - more for a collection and not for counterfeit but I guess no one really knows.
  33. BdubleEdubleRUN

    BdubleEdubleRUN Jul 28, 2009 California

    Maybe he was already aware of counterfeit bottles and has seen them in person, especially since it appears the counterfeits may have come from Belgium.
  34. Tnudish

    Tnudish Feb 16, 2012 Wisconsin

  35. alcstradamus

    alcstradamus Aug 10, 2008 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    Guys, enough with the witchhunt. The OP is not making this up, I received word of these potential counterfeits last week as well. I was about to trade for one and was informed by my trading partner (probably the same person the OP traded with) that he may have counterfeit bottles in his possession. He does not need to be 'outed' because he is not trying to screw anyone over here, he brought the issue to me first and is trying to get this solved with the singular source of all his bottles he purchased.
  36. sarro

    sarro May 12, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Or the OP, JealousChalice, simply described a low quality printed label to him and confirmed?

    It's not hard to imagine the difference without actually seeing it. Ever seen a Kuhnhenn label?
    thome50 likes this.
  37. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Jun 4, 2009 Netherlands

    So, why are there no pictures? It is too easy to just make a statement of this magnitude without providing any evidence.
  38. claaark13

    claaark13 Nov 29, 2007 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Wasn't he looking for Don Quijote pics?
  39. claaark13

    claaark13 Nov 29, 2007 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    It is 7am in California at this moment.
  40. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Jun 4, 2009 Netherlands

    yes, and the OP was online 28 minutes ago, and the discussion started yesterday, so what is your point :)
    claaark13 likes this.
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