News "Craft or crafty? Consumers deserve to know the truth"

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Todd, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. devlishdamsel

    devlishdamsel Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2009 Washington

  2. dc55110

    dc55110 Aspirant (282) Oct 24, 2010 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    The flavored versions (Vanilla, Chocolate & Cherry) of Celebrate were available from 2005-2007.

    Around the same time AB also was dabbling in crafty as well with their Brewers Private Reserve
    bigdaddypolite and Chaz like this.
  3. Chaz

    Chaz Poo-Bah (1,582) Feb 3, 2002 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    Right you are, D.C.! I conflated the original release date of Anheuser World Select with that of the later, deluxe Michelob packages -ditto the Brewers Private Reserve- none of which sold in the desired numbers. I hope you'll forgive an old codger for his poor memory, but this was a retailer where beer hobbyists were always quick to judge (and take a pass on purchasing from) the proliferation of "Pseudo Microbrews". At least the wholesaler was good enough to credit us when those packages sat and sat -- most of the time, at least. :wink:
    dc55110 likes this.
  4. ohiobeer29

    ohiobeer29 Defender (675) Feb 2, 2013 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    watched a really great movie on this awhile back really opened my eyes to how the beer industry really works.
  5. UCLABrewN84

    UCLABrewN84 Poo-Bah (12,114) Mar 18, 2010 California

    I still have a magnum of that whale.
  6. dc55110

    dc55110 Aspirant (282) Oct 24, 2010 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    I had a magnum...
  7. Brad007

    Brad007 Poo-Bah (3,341) Mar 28, 2007 Vermont

    I know that this thread has long roots but I do think that Schell got shafted by the BA.
    Chaz likes this.
  8. bigdaverosales

    bigdaverosales Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2013 California

  9. DarkDragon999

    DarkDragon999 Aspirant (267) Feb 13, 2013 Rhode Island

    Well that sure does settle it doesnt it :stuck_out_tongue:
  10. Smitty1988

    Smitty1988 Initiate (0) Oct 16, 2012 Arizona
    Beer Trader

    I stay away from SABMiller and INBev, other than that, I dont care how much SN makes, cause thats the only thing that doesnt make them "craft".
    yemenmocha and Roguer like this.
  11. Flibber

    Flibber Initiate (0) Jul 27, 2013 United Kingdom (England)

    I have no interest in whether or not what I drink is craft beer. I have no allegiance to craft beer as a concept.
  12. JrGtr

    JrGtr Disciple (393) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    You're right, good beer is good beer, no matter who makes is.
    However, regardless of whether BMC companies DO make good beer, I do think it is a bit disingenuous that they will put out beers suggesting they are craft, with no indication who owns the labels. For instance, I was at a place that they had Henry Weinhardt's brews. I had not heard of that brand before so I gave it a chance. Later when I got home, I looked it up and found that it was a Miller product. (BTW, it was the IPA, and was barely fair. wouldn't drink it again if I had a choice)
    There was nothing saying it was a Miller product. if there was, I may have gone another direction in my drink that day.
    Goose Island is also an odd circumstance. I never cared much for the regular offerings - the IPA, 312, etc, but I do like the big bottle series, - Sophie, Matilda, and of course BCBS. I will probably continue buying those as long as the quality holds out, but with that slight twinge of giving money to AB-Inbev.

    ETA: It doesn't matter to me the size of the company brewing my beer, but the quality of the beer itself and also the quality of the company. For instance, Sam Adams may not have the best beers in the world, but things that the company does will keep me buying it. The hop sharing they did a couple years ago, the loans to up-and-coming companies, these are things that they wouldn't be able to do if they weren't as big as they are.
    CaptainPiret likes this.
  13. infuturity83

    infuturity83 Initiate (0) Sep 22, 2009 Massachusetts

    Craft...not craft....micro....macro...nano....who really gives a shit?

    If it's good, it's good. If Inbev/Coors/insertothergenericmacrobrandhere would come out with a world class beer, I would drink it as easily and lustily as anything made by any small trendy operation.

    The only people who care about these designations are the hipster doofuses who want to seem cool while wearing their thick-framed glasses and tams to seem edgy. Drink what you like, and who cares whether it's considered "craft".

    Boston Beer Co. is a good example. Despite the incessant flaming and bullshit around here, they still make some world-class beer, and I couldn't possibly care less whether they are doing it in 20 barrels a year, or 20 long as its good.

    /end rant
    Kyrojack, cavedave, Tballz420 and 9 others like this.
  14. mikeburd1128

    mikeburd1128 Zealot (505) Oct 28, 2011 New Jersey

    I totally understand the concept of "if it tastes good, I'll drink it." What I don't understand is this acceptance of huge companies using deceptive marketing techniques to push their products. I'm sorry, but if your beer is brewed at a huge factory with a Budweiser logo on the side of it, and it says on the label that it's brewed by Shock Top and makes no mention of Budweiser, then you can go fuck off. I'll give my money to the next guy that's going to at least be honest to me.

    EDIT: I'm not saying I refuse to purchase their stuff either. At ball games if there's no option, I'll get myself a tall boy.
    Ford, Roguer, CaptainPiret and 2 others like this.
  15. geocool

    geocool Initiate (175) Jun 21, 2006 Massachusetts

    Wow, that was a mostly accurate, mostly inoffensive summary of the debate that we here on BA find super familiar. And it is in Time Magazine???
    Roguer, TongoRad and JackHorzempa like this.
  16. spicoli00

    spicoli00 Zealot (539) Jul 6, 2005 Indiana

    Nice work on getting your thread linked in a Time article cavedave!
    cavedave and zid like this.
  17. 5thOhio

    5thOhio Devotee (499) May 13, 2007 South Carolina

    "Brad Tuttle covers business and personal finance for TIME."

    With all the media people getting laid off lately, couldn't some of these on-line publications hire someone who actually knows something about beer instead of marketing or business or food or ferris wheels?

    For example, if I did my homework from Jesskidden's posts, neither BBC, SN or NB exceed 6 million barrels which means none of them "are too successful to be considered 'micro.' "

    And BTW, I wonder if there wasn't some quid-pro-quo-behind-the-back-under-the-table schmoozing for Mr. Tuttle to write this article? it comes out right after Tom Long's defense of Blue Moon as a craft brewery and contains mostly positive comments about ABInBev and MillerCoors products.
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,784) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Jim Galligan of Beer and Whiskey Bros had a lot of good quotes in that article:

    “The size of the brewery and who owns the brand isn’t the main issue,” he explained. “It’s really about a brewer trying to make the best product they can imagine, putting quality and flavor ahead of dollars and sense.” And Galligan and many others feel that “for mega brewers like A-B InBev and MillerCoors, and their ‘crafty’ brands like Shock Top, Batch 19 and Landshark Lager might look the part, but they really don’t taste the part.”

    Though some may view the whole “craft beer” labeling debate as annoying and pretentious, Galligan sees the discussion as important for beer lovers everywhere. “People demanding an honestly good product is a good thing,” he said. It’s not remotely snobby or silly that people care enough about good beer to want to protect the scene from corporate brewers “who are simply looking to cash in without making meaningful contributions to craft beer culture,” Galligan said.

    Ultimately, it all comes back to producing the best product possible, he said. “I think most people just want delicious and interesting beers to drink, and the size of the brewery that makes them matters far less than the quality of what’s in their glass.”

    Cheers to Jim Galligan!
    JohnnyJam, bigdaverosales and geocool like this.
  19. MikeWard

    MikeWard Savant (986) Sep 14, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Maybe the Bros should grab the current list of the BA top 250 (after editing out the imports) and march over to Time for an article on the "Real" Best Beers in America.

    On second thoughts, marching isn't practical, just borrow your favorite local breweries delivery truck and take a few tasty offerings out there as well.

    And Jesskidden.....:relaxed:
  20. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    The "concept" of craft beer, as I see it of course, is what fueled my passion of craft beer. Two each their own.
  21. AlienSwineFlu

    AlienSwineFlu Disciple (383) Dec 14, 2012 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    Fat Tire is a beer, not a brewery...
  22. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,164) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    These are all excellent points.

    My moment of deceptive packaging and placement came with one of ABI's Pumpkin beers, stuck next to Wolavers in the organic beers section of the store, away from beverage aisle. No hint on the packaging it was ABI. Of course, also pretty easy to track down the info.

    Of course, Sixpoint doesn't say anywhere on its cans that it is contract brewed at Lion in Pa. Montauk and a bunch of the new gen nanos and micros contract brew and don't let on that they do. Of course, also pretty easy to track down the info.

    I do have a prob with your last point. It implies that more profit equals more ability to be charitable, and this is true. It also implies "Big Beer" doesn't contribute charitably. IIRC, the largest beer corporations have been and are involved in many more charities than any of the "craft" brewers, which doesn't mean they are better or worse as breweries because of it.
  23. JrGtr

    JrGtr Disciple (393) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    And you have a point there. Profits allow a company to be charitable, and the case is where that company chooses to be charitable; what they choose to do with that charity.
    AB-Inbev canned plain ol' water to distribute to storm-hit places, be it Hurricane Katrina, Superstorm Sandy, and blizzard areas that were without power for days or weeks. Of course I applaud them for that, and wish that other companies would use their equipment for such efforts, thinking outside the box.
    On the other end of the spectrum, as far as breweries with not much money to spare, in April this year, Jack's Abby spearheaded a night with a local tavern (yes, the idea came from Baxter's Brewing [I think] and a comment they made about sending beer for the first responders.) With less than 24 hours planning, there was beer from something like 15 breweries, and a raffle with items donated from those breweries and others, plus lots of Beer Advocates raising a bout $9,000 for the One Fund.
    My point was that Sam Adams chose to help other, competitor breweries when there was a hops shortage, they help small companies, including breweries with their loan program.
    I wouldn't expect to see BMC helping other beer producers with their charitable efforts.
  24. eaterfan

    eaterfan Initiate (0) Jul 10, 2013 California
    Beer Trader

    I don't care that they make their packaging look crafty and don't put who they are owned by on it. Why does it matter? If someone is judging a beer by the bottle then they deserve to drink what's in there. And for those that refuse to try a beer because it's made by BMC then you can't claim to care about taste either. It's most likely bad but you never know until you try it.

    Is this marketing any more deceptive than a beach party add for Coors Light with only models in it? I've had a million Coors Lights in college and Bar Refaeli made it to none of my parties.
  25. mikeburd1128

    mikeburd1128 Zealot (505) Oct 28, 2011 New Jersey

    What is all this rambling you're doing? I don't really know why you clicked 'reply' to my comment because with the exception of your Coors Light comment, you didn't really respond to anything I said. But if you want an answer to your question, I'll give it to you by repeating what I already said: Yes, I think it is more deceptive to misrepresent the brewers than to show supermodels in a commercial. I think it's pretty obvious that no one expects models to show up when they drink Coors Light. However, people JUST MIGHT expect Shock Top to brew their beer instead of Budweiser.

    And you can save your time getting defensive again because I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just stating my opinion.
  26. kingofhop

    kingofhop Initiate (0) May 9, 2010 Oklahoma

    It ain't craft. It ain't macro. It's "beer". To paraphrase Aleister Crowley, "Drink what thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law".
    fx20736 likes this.
  27. evilcatfish

    evilcatfish Defender (617) May 11, 2012 Missouri
    Beer Trader

    If its good, its good, and I'll drink it
  28. HoosierHopHead

    HoosierHopHead Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2012 Indiana

    When corporations like MillerCoors bankroll politicians like Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker who says he wants less government, but then supports legislation that forces small brewers to sell only through beer distributors; I find myself turned away from any product they offer. The mega brews are mega corporations with their only goal, generating profits for their shareholders. Not for me. Now I'll shut up and enjoy my Ranger. MMMMMM hops.
    JediMatt likes this.
  29. jtg5678

    jtg5678 Aspirant (208) Nov 27, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    People keep saying this: if BMC made a good beer, I'd drink it.

    The thing is, they pretty much don't make good beer and they're not in the business of making good beer.

    People go on and on about the supposed beer drinker who drinks craft simply because it is non-corporate. Maybe I run with a different crowd, but everyone I know jumped the AAL ship because they wanted to like the beer they drank. They were interested in jumping into that world and trying new things. Now, most of these people are well-educated enough about beer to know a BMC faux-craft when they see one. They pass over those beers - not because they are corporate, but because they know the companies brewing them don't truly care about the end product. That's all I ask for out of a brewery before I try their beer - that they truly care about what they're producing. I presume that's what everyone here wants out of a brewery, and we shouldn't have to google the brand name to make sure of it. There's a fine line between new craft beer to the market and a re-branded amber ale. You think the average consumer can keep it all straight?
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  30. ivorycannon

    ivorycannon Devotee (472) Feb 21, 2013 Indiana

    I just love good beer. Time Magazine can kiss my white ass!
  31. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    Red letter day, seeing old A.C. quoted here.
    kingofhop likes this.
  32. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,408) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Somehow I'm not surprised to see that phrase uttered by someone who calls himself "ivorycannon."
  33. ivorycannon

    ivorycannon Devotee (472) Feb 21, 2013 Indiana

  34. RobM77

    RobM77 Initiate (48) Feb 14, 2013 Illinois

    I think it is comical to rail on larger brewers and make comments about Shock Top, etc. I'd like to see you apply your drivel to the rest of your life - you can't. Unless you are Ted Kaczynski and live in a small cabin in the hinterlands.

    If someone makes a good product people willl buy it, use it drink it. Including me. I'm not going to sit over the rim of the glass, bitching about the fact it's made it a large building with a certain somebody's name on it. Childish.
    harrylee773 likes this.
  35. TommyLiam

    TommyLiam Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2013 Arizona

    Is a Lexus not a luxury car because it's owned by Toyota? No.
  36. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,164) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    So, your point is that ABI helps random folks in dire need whom they don't even know either professionally or personally, which is arguably pure altruism, and craft beer companies are charitable to their customers and friends, which arguably is pure business. The biggest example of it is Sam Adams helping homebrewers and fellow brewers which is good for business and means other breweries owe them thanks and favors, not a bad thing to have your friends and competition feel.

    So, BMC charities help random folks who are sick and disaster victims, and craft brewers help friends and customers?

    Ummm, I'm thinking that isn't the point you were trying to make, but there it is.

    Like I said in my post it doesn't mean they are a better or worse brewer for their charitable contributions.
  37. maDUECEgunner

    maDUECEgunner Initiate (0) May 23, 2013 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    I don't drink craft beer because its labeled "craft beer". I drink it because its GOOD BEER.
  38. Stevedore

    Stevedore Poo-Bah (3,494) Nov 16, 2012 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    I like my good beer, doesn't matter who makes it.

    However, I wouldn't like it if the large companies that didn't brew beer I like would employ questionable business practices and throw around their hefty market weight to put the other companies out of business- the ones who make the beer I like and purchase. Wouldn't you be upset/annoyed too?

    God, that last paragraph is an English teacher's nightmare, but surely you all get the point.
  39. infuturity83

    infuturity83 Initiate (0) Sep 22, 2009 Massachusetts

    Wait....really? So I take it you don't like Lexus, Infiniti, Jaguar as examples, since they are made by bigger, lower quality brands and don't mention their pedigree? This is a super-common practice in the business world. A big, generic brand makes a wide variety of smaller, trendier brands.

    The bottom line is, Shock Top IS brewed by the Shock Top brewery, which happens to be owned by Inbev and produced by Anheuser Busch. By your reasoning, a company should report all products that their factory produces on each individual product, and that's just silly...

    Why would they include the word Budweiser on their Shock Top line?

    And the final nail in your coffin here is that I don't hear you bitching about Goose Island in this argument. They are owned by the same company, provided by the same distributors, and provide profit to the same giant brand you're criticizing. How many hipster, edgy, "outsider" assholes would still hunt down BCBS (or give a shit about it in the first place) if it had the Budweiser logo emblazoned on it?

    Don't get me wrong, Shock Top is horrid, horrid stuff. But I'm just sick of all this elitist bashing of a company that is trying to do the very thing that everyone has said they should be doing all along: to diversify and offer better product (and yes, at the very least, Shock Top is better than Bud).

    Everyone just shut up and drink what you like, already...
    Kerrie likes this.
  40. StarRanger

    StarRanger Initiate (151) Nov 27, 2006 North Dakota

    Umm, where is this "Shock Top Brewery"?
    The Shock Top website does not mention a brewery, give a brewery address or any information on where it is made, just a generic bit about the brewing process under the 'About' section.

    Or are Shock Top beers made at an AB brewery and then a Shock Top label stuck on the bottles.
    cavedave and jesskidden like this.
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