Dark IPA?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by asaf, Sep 25, 2015.

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  1. asaf

    asaf Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2015 Florida

    im thinking about making an IPA with a dark color, like a dunkelweizen, but IPA. Is it a good idea? Btw I love both Guinness and stuff like that, and IPAs.
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Pooh-Bah (2,901) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    That would be a Black IPA, a totally unnecessary style IMO, but I lost that argument. Search "Black IPA" on this forum and you should get lots of information.
    SFACRKnight and inchrisin like this.
  3. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    What's there to disagree with in a black pale beer, @VikeMan ?

    @asaf another search term would be a cascadian dark/black ale. Basically take an IPA recipe with floral/citrus/dank hops (tropical don't work well from what I've seen) and then add some debittered black or do a cold steep with any roasted malt to add
  4. Scope4Beer

    Scope4Beer Zealot (641) Sep 28, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I brewed a black IPA last winter. The only real difference between it and any other IPA was the addition of Carafa III at about 5% of the malt bill.
    DrMindbender likes this.
  5. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand Pooh-Bah (5,281) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

    My argument about whether a black IPA is 'unnecessary' or not would be whether you brew a dark IPA or a roasty dark IPA. I personally don't like the roasty flavor with the hops, so I'm in the group that would vote 'unnecessary' because it's just a color issue to call it 'black' and not a flavor enhancement to make it distinct. Otherwise you'd call it an India Dark Stout.
    PortLargo and CurtFromHershey like this.
  6. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    @Mothergoose03 at one point I had kicked around the thought of an IDK - India Dark Kolsch
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  7. asaf

    asaf Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2015 Florida

    They did this study where they take two identical white wines, but in one they add red food coloring, and they gave both of the wines to the best wine tasters in the world, and they thaught that it was two different wines, even though they are the same exact one! So although you may be right that it doesn't actually add flavor but the color itself adds a certain thing, remember, taste buds only do 20% of tasting
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  8. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Might I suggest an American Stout? http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style13.php
  9. inchrisin

    inchrisin Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana

    Terrible idea. I can't believe they made black IPAs an official style.
  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,549) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Some years black IPA was said to be 50% of the specialty category, which makes it popular enough for its own style. How do you feel about White IPA? Red?
    inchrisin likes this.
  11. ericj551

    ericj551 Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2004 Canada (AB)

    I used to agree with you, but then I had 3 or 4 really excellent examples that were more than just a gimmicky beer. Much harder to do well than a regular IPA, but really delicious black IPAs exist.
    GetMeAnIPA likes this.
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Pooh-Bah (2,901) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I think really delicious hoppy porters and hoppy stouts exist. And for those, there's no need for a "Black IPA" designation IMO. OTOH, "IPAs" that are just dark (but not roasty) seem pointless to me. But I guess you could add color to any style and declare it something new. Anyway, it's all moot. That ship has already sailed. Given that though, I do wish at least that Cascadian Dark Ale or one of the other names had stuck. Black India Pale Ale, whether or not the style was needed, is still a silly name.
  13. ericj551

    ericj551 Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2004 Canada (AB)

    Fair enough. I can't argue with the silliness of calling a beer black and pale. I like the term CDA as well and usually call mine that. I never liked the ones that were just an IPA darkened while adding as little roasted flavor as possible.
  14. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Pooh-Bah (1,782) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

  15. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    That would be a Black IPL : )
    JackHorzempa and jlordi12 like this.
  16. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Pooh-Bah (1,782) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

  17. jncastillo87

    jncastillo87 Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2013 Texas

    Nah .. the darker malts tend to over shadow the hops somewhat .. kinda like pissing in the wind really.
  18. inchrisin

    inchrisin Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana

    I'm probably not one to weigh in on having 12 styles of IPA out there. BJCP always did a good job of separating beers out by regionality. Not always, but most of the time. I think we'll see more of this subcategory, so long as the microbrew community continues to endorse shows like "Brew Dogs."
  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,142) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Cough cough american stout cough cough
  20. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,364) May 2, 2006 Utah

    My two cents.

    I, too, have had some excellent examples of the style; Uinta's Dubhe and Stone's Sublimely Self-Righteous Ale come to mind. I believe that few people would mistake either of these beers as a stout, even an American stout. In my book an American stout, while hoppy, is still predominantly defined by its roast character.

    While I agree that Black India Pale Ale is a rather incongruous name, I don't find Black IPA so hard to swallow, as this designates a beer that in essence is an IPA, but additionally is very dark. Some would say that a Black IPA should have (essentially) no roast flavor, while a Cascadian Dark Ale has some noticeable roast and/or other dark-malt character. I actually like this distinction, but this difference is a bit like the distinction between San Diego and Northwest IPAs, which the BJCP has chosen to also ignore.

    I've tried my hand at some hoppy dark beers. I agree they are more difficult to pull off well compared to some of the more traditional styles. I regularly brew a hoppy American Brown Ale that comes quite close to my understanding of Cascadian Dark Ale, although I do not dry hop it. This beer I have dialed in to where it is essentially a house beer. I've also tried my hand at a Black IPA a couple of times. While quite drinkable, neither of these two beers has been as good as the two commercial example I mentioned above. In the last one I used 5% crystal 75 and 5% Carafa III Special, both added to the mash. A small amount of roast is apparent, even with this fairly small amount of Carafa. However, the amount of roast certainly does not make it a stout.

  21. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    I'm a big fan of Cascadian Dark Ales/Black IPAs! I brew a couple every year and have only been disappointed once. My last one started out as a "clean out the fridge/freezer" brew but turned out spectacular! I used some aromatic, rye, golden promise, Munich and only 1/2 lb of dehusked Carafa I...I used 4 3ml hop shots (1 @ 30, 1 @ 10 & 2 @ 0 for a 15 minute hopstand), an ounce of Nelson and Mosaic at 0 for the hopstand and 2 1/2 ounces Mosaic for dry hopping and I used BRY-97 West Coast yeast as well. It turned out a deep dark brown (srm was right at 25) instead of black, but it also had a nicely balanced "black"/slight roast characteristic. I had a 40th birthday party last month and this beer kicked very soon after the Zombie Dust clone, which was first...the SNPA clone was 3rd to kick, so that tells me the crowd liked it better than the old standby:slight_smile:
  22. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,114) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin

    I feel like my opinion doesn't matter. It seems that commercial brewers have a tough time selling beer if it doesn't have IPA in the name or some other reference to the sub continent e.g., India red ale, India pale lager, etc. I'm pretty sure that @CurtFromHershey 's India dark kolsch would outsell the best example of the Kolsch style merely because consumers would be fascinated with the name. It's frustrating to me to see enthusiasts so swept up in IPA that refreshing but more subtle styles must get a makeover to survive.
  23. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I'm getting a visual of some ancient Summerian dude ranting about how hops will ruin beer as he is ladling beer out of a mud puddle. I feel like an IPA apologist sometimes, just because the style is so popular now (although IPA bashing seems to be in vogue also). Drink what you like and damn the torpedos (pun intended) : )

  24. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    I personally like the Black IPA style. Dry, semi sweet, roasted malt acrid ness, paired with potent dank hop aroma and flavor.. yes please.
  25. MarriedAtGI

    MarriedAtGI Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2013 Illinois

    The name is incongruous, but haven't we reached the point where IPA is no longer an acronym but just means very hoppy beer?

    Also, Dunkel Weisse seems to have established this incongruity previously.

    I like (but don't love) Black IPAs, and I find them quite different from hoppy porters and stouts.

    ETA: and I love some hoppy stouts and porters like FFF's Snow Weasel and Black Flame.
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