Dear Founders: What has happened to you as you have grown?

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by geneseohawk, Mar 20, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kzoobrew

    kzoobrew Initiate (0) May 8, 2006 Michigan

    Founders is overrated but not in the pejorative meaning many want to throw around. Founders has become a victim of their own success. Founders has been put on a ridiculously high pedestal by overzealous beer geeks, now those same beer geeks want to knock them off this pedestal because Founders is no longer meeting their ridiculous expectations.

    Founders was never as good as people made them out to be, they certainly are not as bad as these complaints lead you to believe either. Just another example where realistic expectations benefit us all.
  2. kawilliams81

    kawilliams81 Meyvn (1,248) Feb 27, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    What do you mean? FFF is the worst. Talk about waiting for a table, and look at how big of a clusterf@&k DLD is.
    raymo55 likes this.
  3. GVJoemomma

    GVJoemomma Initiate (0) Jul 20, 2010 Michigan

    I get it. I've been hitting Founders since it was in the Brassworks building, and it has changed as it has grown. That is both a good and bad thing. I would say they have far more one-off beers now than they did before they moved. It has gotten ridiculously busy though. I'm happy to see all of the success that they are having, but I decided not to renew my mug club there this year because I just got tired of the crowds. The good thing about living in GR though is that there is no shortage of good beer. I'll never be able to totally leave the brewery, but I think it's good if we see other people for a little while.
  4. beerindaglass

    beerindaglass Aspirant (217) Feb 20, 2013 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I'm guessing this thread didn't quite go like the OP was expecting...
    Rohkey likes this.
  5. Horbar

    Horbar Zealot (560) Feb 24, 2012 Rhode Island

    They're pretty.....pretty.......pretty good.;
  6. HokiesandBeer

    HokiesandBeer Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Just be thankful for the time you spent there before they were famous.
  7. mtalley999

    mtalley999 Initiate (0) Oct 6, 2011 Maryland

    I'm always genuinely confused by these kinds of threads or posts. Any commercial brewery is a business. It is normal for any business to change in order to grow. In order for a brewery to grow they need to become more "popular" and increase sales (I know I'm simplifying things quite a bit here). Unless the quality of their beers drops off, how can anyone really be upset? Sounds like hipster nonsense to me.
    dan027 likes this.
  8. JoEBoBpr

    JoEBoBpr Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2004 Missouri


    (slow clap)(standing ovation)(raging applause)
    nickMB likes this.
  9. opothecary

    opothecary Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2009 New York

    This pretentious thread probably isn't quite going the way OP expected...
  10. augustg

    augustg Initiate (190) Sep 15, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    AU CONTRAIRE! Maybe just measuring the size of his thread. :wink:
  11. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,263) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    I like Founders, I don't love Founders. They are good at what they do, but as I don't like Bourbon or most Bourbon aged beers, that leaves more of that for otheres.

    Vivant has been making some really good beers. Only have had one of Perrins and want to have some more at their brewery.
  12. iko7jjm

    iko7jjm Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I saw Minor Threat and MDC in shithole in Camden, Black Flag @ Love Hall and
    Husker DU in somebody's basement.
  13. shredder83

    shredder83 Devotee (423) Feb 21, 2013 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    In life change is the only constant, and besides the rarer stuff I can walk into any shop I frequent and grab almost every available founders year round or seasonal. I haven't made the trip to founders yet but I look forward to it, wait or no wait. Why? Because in recent years all of us BA's have come into a golden age of craft beer, tons of good brews and breweries and none of this would be possible without demand and expansion. It's great to walk into a small liquor store and find a handful of selections that I didn't expect because they are small and used to only carry BMC offerings. I frequent fff and yes the wait sucks and dld is a clusterf*ck, but who has been there that can honestly say that they didn't get something, or take something home that was at least a little worth it? Trips to breweries/brewpubs are usually always a good time with fellow beer lovers, and I always look forward to them.

    We are all lucky to be able to enjoy what we love, and breweries like founders and many others make it possible because of their ambition. Live it up BA's. Cheers.
  14. Thirstygoat

    Thirstygoat Defender (605) Nov 22, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I did the Michigan triangle last Memorial Day weekend. One beer Porter @ Dark Horse ( learned they'd stopped making Three Guys Off the Scal;e years ago so my quest had been in vain), one Hopslam (only time I've had it on tap) at the Eccentric Cafe and a case of Expedition from the cooler, and then an evening in Grand Rapids. At Founder's I got a sandwich ate on the deck, standing and then muddled into a seat at the bar. Nothing exotic on the list, but I seem to recall Dirty Bastard, Old Curmudgeon. Got drunk, bought shirts walked back to my hotel. Was there a tourist aspect, sure. Would I go back, sure, though I'd try to work Brewery Vivant into the mix..
  15. TheSixthRing

    TheSixthRing Poo-Bah (2,257) Sep 24, 2008 California

    Dear Russian River,

    Every early February.....
  16. Stevedore

    Stevedore Poo-Bah (3,569) Nov 16, 2012 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    I realize its entirely up to me if I want to participate in the Annual Great KBS Scramble (TM) each year, as well as for the 1-3 Backstage releases they have each year. But if I don't get these/do these, that's fine- as long as they keep brewing their Porter and FBS without compromising the quality of these beers. Heck I'd hasten to include Curmudgeon and FIS in that too. These beers are awesome and honestly aren't that much of a step down from the Class 3's.

    Basically, put your expectations where they need to be for you to enjoy their excellent year-round and seasonal beers. Leave the limited releases to lady luck, chance or generosity of your fellow BAs who luck into them.
  17. ObiWanKushnobi

    ObiWanKushnobi Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2011 Minnesota

    Seriously when are whiny pointless threads like this going to stop.
  18. fullmetal1381

    fullmetal1381 Initiate (0) Jul 30, 2011 Florida

    Now, I LOVE me some barrel aged brew, but If I can't try Bourbon Barrel Aged Fat Rat's Ass or whatever because someone tapped the keg before I get to the bar (it has happened to all of us), most often I don't go "well damn, guess I'll head home." I go "well damn, guess I'll head home...after these three pints." More to life than just barrels, people.


    In before: ISO:BBA Fat Rat's Ass, FT: Locals
    sbxx and Duff27 like this.
  19. vthippie

    vthippie Initiate (146) Dec 18, 2012 Vermont

    Growing pains, but ultimately I would gladly sacrifice room at the bar, likeminded patrons, quiet atmosphere and knowledgable waitstaff as long as the quality of the beer doesn't suffer.

    That being said I will gladly pledge to stay out of your local breweries for the rest of my natural life if you all will please stop coming to Vermont and buying up all of our beer.
    dan027 likes this.
  20. HopSkank

    HopSkank Initiate (0) Jun 12, 2011 South Carolina

    Have you ever heard yourself saying, "I wish everyone in America appreciated craft beer." Well, you are getting a glimpse of that process.
    Duff27 likes this.
  21. litheum94

    litheum94 Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2008 California

    To the OP: don't ever visit Russian River. You'll probably be disappointed.
  22. Blakaeris

    Blakaeris Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2005 Iowa

    Damn man. The guy is just stating that he misses the good old days when he felt something special going there. No need to be a bunch of pretentious pricks about it.
  23. benjaminahudson

    benjaminahudson Initiate (0) Sep 29, 2012 North Carolina

    Dear True Craft Beer Experience,

    I hope this message finds you doing well. Wow, where has the time gone?! Sorry we don't have a lot of time to catch up, but I wanted to let you know that I was doing fine. I've made some new friends, and still do my best to keep up with old ones. I'd love to see more of you, but you only come to town once a year so it's hard for me to prepare for your arrival and roll out the red carpet for you. As much as I would like to be all things to all people, I'm doing the best job I can to be true to myself; however much that may be different from the "old me" you expect. Next time you think you're going to be in town, please give me 8-10 months heads up so I can put aside some extra special beers just for you!


    Founderz Brewing
    TheBronze, adamdd, libbey and 20 others like this.
  24. broodog

    broodog Aspirant (222) Jul 18, 2009 Illinois

    "Founders is good, but you guys are silly for thinking they are the best. There is a shack run by a guy two blocks away in an industrial park that is turning out waaay better beer than Founders" - Kzoobrew is the COOLEST!
  25. BlackDragon

    BlackDragon Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2013 Michigan

    Hop Cat is way better as far as what they have on tap and the bartenders and people are better too there's no excuse for why they don't have more staff to handle the increased business and there is also no excuse why they aren't trained and know about the brews their selling. Founders used to be a good brewery but I think they've been riding their reputation for too long and it's slowly beginning to change for the worse. I support their expansion efforts but they shouldn't send their back stage or limited stuff out of state and certainly not out of their pub until local demand has been met if they can sell every single oz in MI or their pub they should those that want it can come here it will help our economy and if it all sells they make the same amount of money (look at Lawsons and the Alchemist). Yes the locals would get more but so would all the people who make the trip to Founders. Please Founders if your listening only send your large volume stuff out of state and most importantly make more CBS!!!
  26. YogiBeer

    YogiBeer Initiate (0) May 10, 2012 Illinois

    I'll have what he's having.
    fullmetal1381 and aasher like this.
  27. fujindemon74

    fujindemon74 Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Last time I checked, Founders wasn't the only brewery in this rodeo.

    So who fucking cares?
  28. SammyJaxxxx

    SammyJaxxxx Poo-Bah (1,689) Feb 23, 2012 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Please tell us what you like them to do so that they will be less popular.
    Additionally, please list the criteria they should use when allowingeople into the brew pub.
  29. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Defender (602) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota
    Beer Trader


    I reiterate others' question of the point of this post. Success shouldn't garner vitriol.
  30. BlackDragon

    BlackDragon Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2013 Michigan

    please use words people actually understand whats vitriol
  31. stayclean

    stayclean Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2012 Wisconsin

    Really having a hard time telling if this is a joke or not.
    cmannes, TallPaul07, Vav and 4 others like this.
  32. PDZ

    PDZ Initiate (0) Jun 26, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    sorry if someone answered this already, but who/what is founders?
  33. ppohio

    ppohio Initiate (172) Aug 5, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I remember some years back in New York, I think I was at Mug's Ale House in Williamsburg, and they started tapping this "Founders" beer, I think they had Centennial and maybe the porter that night, and everyone was hitting those taps hard. It was the first time we had those beers - they were really good, and everyone was really excited about them. Pretty good times, pretty good beer. I'm glad they're still making them.
  34. tommyz

    tommyz Devotee (420) May 28, 2007 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Another elitist comment..Why send beer out of state when we can horde it at turn it into Whalz bro....
  35. geneseohawk

    geneseohawk Initiate (0) Nov 4, 2008 Illinois

    I'm glad to see this thread generate so much passion- that is a good thing and exactly what should happen with all threads on this site- good straight talk, debate, agreement, etc.... Being called a whiny elitist bitch-not what I was expecting or the perception I was trying to convey.

    This was more the point of the thread- don't want to fight the crowds. There popularity is good for beer drinkers everywhere- just not the experience I like and miss from years past. I guess sharing past experiences to present day experience was not a good thing to do. The quality of beer has not gone down- still outstanding.
  36. nickMB

    nickMB Disciple (310) Nov 17, 2009 Illinois

    this is seriously as idiotic as the arguments I make about when bands I love become bigger or more famous. It was soooo much cooler when Arcade Fire and Animal Collective used to play the empty bottle.... why can't I see Grizzly Bear or TV on The Radio at the metro anymore? Good things get bigger and more popular. Do you need me to cut up a series of pictures of Founders from a few years ago with Landslide by Fleetwood Mac soundtracking the pictures?

    I took my KBS, I took it down
    Climbed a fermentor and I turned around
    And I saw my reflection in the snow covered grain mill
    'Till the landslide brought me down

    Oh, mirror in the brite tank
    What is brew
    Can the beer drinker within my heart rise above
    Can I sail through the changing founders size
    Can I handle the seasons of my life
  37. BlackDragon

    BlackDragon Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2013 Michigan

    you really don't get my idea at all if they did this they WOULDN'T be whalz at least not in MI
  38. mark14580

    mark14580 Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2011 New York

    Shouldn't we celebrate the growth of company in a state with a 9% unemployment rate and just deal with the crowds?
    imfrommichigan, dmnielsen and nickMB like this.
  39. BlackDragon

    BlackDragon Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2013 Michigan

    yes and when this happens if I still like their music I'll buy the mp3s and not go to their concerts that are large and impersonal. I do the same basic thing with Founders I don't buy any of their stuff besides CBS and KBS anymore. Everything else they make theirs another brewery who makes the same kind of thing as good or better.
  40. BlackDragon

    BlackDragon Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2013 Michigan

    Yes I agree so send the high volume stuff out of state but think of how many more people would come to Founders or MI if the only place they could get special releases was here. This would help our hotels, restaurants, travel I could go on and on. Look at the KBS release.
    fishtremble and jampics2 like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  • About Us

    Founded in Boston in 1996, BeerAdvocate (BA) is your go-to resource for beer powered by an independent community of enthusiasts and professionals dedicated to supporting and promoting better beer.

    Learn More
  • Our Community

    Comprised of consumers and industry professionals, many of whom started as members of this site, our community is one of the oldest, largest, and most respected beer communities online.
  • Our Events

    Since 2003 we've hosted over 60 world-class beer festivals to bring awareness to independent brewers and educate attendees.
  • Our Magazine

    Support uncompromising beer advocacy and award-winning, independent journalism with a print subscription to BeerAdvocate magazine.