News Deep Ellum Brewing criticized for their Dallas Blonde ale slogan: "goes down easy"

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by evilcatfish, Oct 22, 2013.

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  1. lucas1801

    lucas1801 Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2012 Massachusetts

    Damn some people are super sensitive. Anyone calling this a part of "rape culture" must never watch tv, movies, listen to music, etc. The term rape culture needs to go, it is clearly meant to draw attention by choosing the word "rape". This label has nothing to do with rape. I have heard the people that are offended even agree that this label and DEBC are not promoting rape, but can't seem to let the subject go in this case as it has no basis.
    bryanole27 likes this.
  2. bmwats

    bmwats Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2006 Louisiana

    i happen to think it's quite clever... it's a joke
    bryanole27 likes this.
  3. poopinmybutt

    poopinmybutt Initiate (104) May 25, 2005 Nebraska

  4. rather

    rather Aspirant (202) May 31, 2013 California

    ill be offended if i try that beer and it doesnt go down easy
    smutty33 and 1000lbgrizzly like this.
  5. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2010 Ohio

    Just dumb.

    Real dumb

    Critics have way the hell to much time on their hands, and nothing better to do
    bryanole27 likes this.
  6. LeperJim

    LeperJim Champion (890) Feb 10, 2008 Ohio

    For what it's worth, in my experience, Belgian blondes do NOT go down as easy as American blondes. The Belgians are sweeter and usually much stronger ales.
  7. STKPICR0720

    STKPICR0720 Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2011 Alabama

    It is a BEER. Drink it. Have a conversation that really matters while you drink it.
  8. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    amusingly, that you find it humorous directly entails that your sense of humor is bad.
  9. Kerrie

    Kerrie Initiate (0) Aug 24, 2012 Michigan

    I really do appreciate you and any man fighting for the woman's perspective here, but as a woman (well, girl, at the time) unfortunately molested by a former step-dad, I still don't find the name/slogan offensive here. It has nothing to do with rape in my opinion and more to do with consensual sex (which I'm obviously fine with). "Going down easy" to me implies that the woman wants to do it. That's her choice. I consider myself a feminist, as well.
    smutty33, bryanole27 and lucas1801 like this.
  10. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    p.s. i'd comment on this thread, but dealing with people whose ideological commitments force them to act like complete idiots and psychopaths is too tiresome.

    as for why people are upset about the label, if you 1) don't understand it, or 2) feel all sorts of uncomfortable emotions / anger that people are upset about it, you could always try things like listening, reading up on perspectives outside of your own (particularly, ones that don't necessarily make you feel good about your own), etc. or, just get mad, write some dumb shit on the internet.

    edit: @kerrie, since you're the post directly above mine (so i actually read it), the problem isn't that the label implies forcing a woman to go down on a man or something. it's the rape culture element of categorizing women by how easy they are to fuck (notice, there's a very clear first-person view going on in this categorization, and you're not allowed into it). notably, when women are targets for fucking, the surprisingly difficult for some people to delineate differences between "achieving sex" and raping get even more murky.

    edit2: fuck it, may as well dive in since this thread will only be around for a few more hours anyway. only this page though, if i can't be assed to read "why does one store charge more than another?" i can't read an entire thread of sexism apologists. anyway:

    it's meant to draw attention to the fact that several elements of our culture lead to and/or outright encourage rape. it's a very succinct, direct, and accurate term. there are several reasons why this might be invisible to you, ranging from relatively innocuous (you just never thought about it) to character-questioning (maybe you're so self-involved / small-minded that you never thought about how stuff that doesn't hurt you might hurt others) to damning (you enjoy the privileges afforded you by rape culture, and are made very uncomfortable by anything that might threaten those privileges).

    whatever the reason you can't see it, here's a broad, heavy handed example, that careful thought (read: just a few openminded minutes or unbiased reading of articles/research/philosophy) can push into understanding subtler ones: suppose a group of guys place a high value on getting laid. they go to a bar, and try to get women drunk so the women are more likely to have sex with them. but wait--getting someone too intoxicated to make decisions is not obtaining consent, and furthermore, you don't respect this person as a human being in a first place, but rather just a means to obtaining some status / power / orgasm / whatever. what do you know, you're a part of "rape culture." you're involved with cultural norms / habits that bring about rape.

    p.s. yes, getting someone too drunk to resist and then having sex with them is rape. if any of you reading this had never thought of that before (in college, i met several people who were pretty taken aback by legal sexual assault definitions...), enjoy your conscience if you have one.
    lpotter, thatinvisibo, MrDave and 4 others like this.
  11. Kerrie

    Kerrie Initiate (0) Aug 24, 2012 Michigan

    Sadly, Pahn, I've experienced that and woke up the next day with the guy pretending he was awesome and some shit. While I will admit some responsibly in my own actions that doesn't mean I deserve to be raped or anything.
  12. CerealKillerKP

    CerealKillerKP Initiate (0) May 24, 2009 Kentucky

    This has been true in my experience
  13. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    no one ever deserves to be raped.

    obviously, people can be drinking and still want sex, but figuring out consent isn't as gray an area nor as difficult as some people want to believe. this is exactly why terms like "rape culture" matter. if someone goes into their dealings with other people with an appreciation of other people's rights, well-being, etc in advance, there is a lot less pushing... if that makes sense.

    men who don't respect women to begin with are far more likely to push into "gray areas." i could ramble on more, but i don't want to be too much of a long winded ass.

    i'll just say, when a woman decides to drink a bit more and then makes questionable decisions or worse, ends up in a situation out of control, the problem here is the presence of predators taking advantage of it, not women drinking. everyone does things that they might regret--that's unavoidable. however, a culture that encourages men to possess/dominate/rape women is not unavoidable, and the benefits of pushing against such a culture are *tangible*. the more thoughtful and enlightened everyone is, the less likely people are to do terrible things to each other.

    so, we get upset when people push sexist attitudes in marketing and such. i hate rape, i hate rapists, and i have a general idea of where a lot of rape and rapists come from: casual sexism, weak men who let social privilege carry them into violating women, and stubborn people who won't honestly evaluate what our culture teaches us to do and to expect.
    lpotter, thatinvisibo, Kerrie and 3 others like this.
  14. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Let us not forget that "going down" is not synonymous with "fellatio". Nor is it the same as "rape".
  15. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Ugh. This is one of my great pet peeves with internet "feminism"! Mysogyny has a definition! Learn it, and stop using it incorrectly! Misogyny is when someone (male, female, or otherwise) hates a person just for being female, and acts accordingly. Most sexism is not due to misogyny. Most of the time, it is due to liking something in an inappropriate way. These things are not the same, and you do a disservice to feminism (if you represent it) to continue to use the word in such a way!
  16. TTUJohn

    TTUJohn Initiate (150) Nov 13, 2012 Texas

    I haven't read past here, nor did I in the Southwest post, but I can't believe how many people think "rape culture" is literally about rape only, that being said, whoever coined rape culture clearly was going for a word with a lot of pop to it
  17. Schmittymack

    Schmittymack Zealot (506) Sep 3, 2008 Colorado

    I remember back in the early 2000s, a brewery from Tennessee had a blonde ale at the GABF and had that T-shirt for sale. It was a logo of an "Ellie Mae" type blonde in Daisy Duke shorts with the same saying, "Goes Down Easy". I have that shirt, and if I recall, the beer was pretty good. Said brewery has since closed. Without getting into the closet to check, I believe the brewery was Rocky River in Seiverville, TN.
  18. WTKeene

    WTKeene Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2013 New Mexico

    MrDave, Dupage25, FrankHammer and 2 others like this.
  19. thewrongtone

    thewrongtone Initiate (0) Oct 15, 2006 Texas

    Misogyny often manifests as sexism, chauvinism, female objectification, and sexual aggression/deviance.

    My pet peeve is defining a word too narrowly based solely on etymology. We don't need a new buzz word; misogyny and its connotations are just fine.
    thatinvisibo likes this.
  20. BeerAssassin

    BeerAssassin Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2012 Antarctica

    I hear about this culture and that culture all the time, who cares the USA is a culture built on freedom and a mix of many different cultures, some of which will find this offensive and some that will laugh, let's not let a few prudes ruin the wonderful mix and freedom that make up this country, political correctness is way outta control, words never hurt anyone.
  21. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    this is the kind of stupidity i was talking about above.

    you just posted that the USA is a melting pot of cultures, and that "rape culture" is an acceptable part of the "freedom mix." this is just stupid. are you also a fan of, say, pedophilia culture? how about murder culture? since you hate prudes and love freedom, how do you feel about torture culture?

    it's pretty sad that so many people are so poorly educated that they believe "freedom" or "freedom of speech" or "political incorrectness" (whatever the hell that means) are equivalent to sanctioning violence, encouraging rape, granting one group of people a different set of legal or civil rights than another, etc.

    it's a good thing that intelligence and general human capabilities are modular, because otherwise people like this would routinely die of things like accidentally walking into traffic or failing to take the next breath.
  22. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Zealot (543) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

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  23. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Quit pretending your statement works both ways. While the truly misogynist may show this by being sexist, chauvinist, objectifying, and sexually aggressive/deviant, the opposite is not an always true statement. Indeed, it is very rarely true. But, this is exactly how the word is used. All men who speak of females in any way that anyone can find objectionable are automatically misogynists. But, this is not the case. Realistically, almost no man (straight, gay, or otherwise) hates women. The word has a meaning, don't disregard it because you simply can't use more accurate ones.
  24. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    but you're disregarding the meaning because you don't understand that use is more accurate than etymology or choosing a dictionary definition that you personally prefer. now that i've taught you, this should be resolved :grinning:

    (p.s. if you're not a sociopath or soul-crushingly stupid, i'm afraid you're a little naive re: "no man hates women..." it makes you sound very young and sheltered, but i guess it's a good thing. trust me, however, take any group that you think no one has a problem with, and A LOT of people outright hate them, regardless of what bizarre definition you want to assign to any of the words involved)
  25. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    p.p.s. apologies to anyone who liked my "respectful" earlier posts and dislikes the derisive tone in my later ones. what can i say, i have a low sexism and sexism-based-stupidity tolerance. there's worse weaknesses to have (e.g. sexism, stupidity, etc).
  26. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Ahem! I said "almost". There are certainly always going to be people that hate specific subsets of society, but these are major outliers. You might, however, be using a very heavy-handed usage of "hate". Hatred is not some natural thing that happens all the time. Is a strong personal bias against something or someone. There are many things in my 30 years that I don't like. There are, thankfully, very few that I hate. Hatred is never a thing that should be aspired to. It's truly an emotion that does more harm than good.

    And, if you look around, you will find that misandry is more common than misogyny. Especially among the various "equality" groups.
  27. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Yeah, that is offensive!
  28. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    uh, the numerous people who hate women didn't get that way by "aspiring" to it.

    as for your last sentence, see above about ideological commitment. (edit: i get the feeling i need to spell that one out a bit: your ideological commitment prevents you both from thinking clearly and from honestly surveying "misogyny vs misandry"--even using what i imagine is your very strict and idiosyncratic definition for both)
  29. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    "Rape culture" is the assertion that an environment where sex is made light of will make rape more common, because it is considered more acceptable. Realistically, most things that are given this moniker, are not really that way. No one will see this can and slogan, and decide to rape someone... unless they are already a rapist, or a person with the psychological makeup to become one, in which case, something of this nature is not the catalyst, nor will there not be something else to "create the idea" around said person. To such people, simply exposing an ankle could be what sets them off...
  30. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    that is not even remotely what 'rape culture' is intended to denote. you are very confused.

    you're also very confused about what motivates people. you must think that politicians and advertisers are hardcore spinning their wheels when they spend so much time influencing people with environmental pressure.

    (hint: they're not just spinning their wheels!)

    edit: goodnight everyone. i look forward to seeing all these posts still up and fully intact in the morning.
    rainerschuhsler likes this.
  31. ehsteve

    ehsteve Initiate (0) Jan 13, 2009 Texas

    I think it's pretty weird to say that anyone who (while not necessarily consciously hating women) reduces women to objects just likes them in the wrong way. Moreover, I think this sort of prescriptivism re: what misogyny in modern English means is akin to insisting that "homophobia" only means literal irrational and debilitating fear of homosexuals.

    Side note: The "Me So Hoppy" beer is patently offensive by any standard and should be renamed by any decent brewer/brewery exec/brewery marketing exec. I hope no one's treating that as a reason we shouldn't discuss marginally less offensive beer marketing.
  32. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Are you just trying to be argumentative?

    I never said misogynists are that way because they aspire to hatred. I simply said aspiring to hatred is a bad idea. Stuff like being a Klan member is an aspiration towards hatred. You are actively seeking to hate something (in this case, non-white people). And, no, I am not "biased and blind", as you suggest, just because I don't agree with your assertions. Look around the internet. Peaceful male rights groups with no anti-feminine or anti-feminist leanings have to deal with angry hard-leaning feminist groups that fuck with them just for being men, and seeking equality. They actively act to disturb their meetings. This is misandry.
  33. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Explain. I have said nothing about politicians in any way. And, in what way is my definition of "rape culture" incorrect? How am I confused about motivations?
  34. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,422) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    you're using the internet as evidence that there's more misandry than misogyny? not a big comment-section reader i'm guessing.

    definiton: why don't you try googling it? also, i gave a much better explanation than yours several posts ago. re: motivations, try reading the rest of the paragraph. you're implying some kind of biological determinism, while it's flatly obvious to anyone with a brain that the culture you live in plays a part in your actions as an individual.
  35. BeerAssassin

    BeerAssassin Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2012 Antarctica

    If you exercise your right to free speech and quote me please don't put words in my mouth, I don't believe i ever used the phrase "rape culture" that was you, also just because I don't personally believe in such things doesn't mean I think we should take away other peoples rights to think or talk a certain way, I may choose to avoid those people but censorship is never the answer. When you do things like that you erode freedom and free speech. Unpopular speech is the kind that needs the most protecting. Again it isn't words that hurt people, it's actions, as long as whoever is saying something is peaceful and not actually raping or threatening someone whats the harm, just because I disagree and wouldn't say it myself doesn't mean someone else shouldn't be able to? I find what YOU have to say appalling, but I completely support your freedom to say it.
    TruePerception likes this.
  36. TruePerception

    TruePerception Defender (658) Aug 30, 2013 California

    Actually, I tend to avoid comment sections for that very reason, but that is an entirely separate issue revolving around internet anonymity and stupid (usually very young) people testing their boundaries. It's something just about everyone did as a child to a lesser extent, but anonymity offers them a second chance at pushing. On the other hand, these hard-leaning feminists are NOT anonymous, which suggests an even bigger problem (Staunch adherence to culturally unacceptable actions and behaviors).
  37. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,592) Aug 23, 1996 California

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