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Discussion in 'Beer News' started by Jason, Sep 25, 2012.
you think the government is going to forgo the tax haul on beer? no way jose.
When you're from a state without an income tax they have to pay for stuff some way.
Yup, it's called a whopping sales tax.
srsly. way too many 13 years old spending hundreds on rare gueuzes on ebay.
Historically, when remedial measures are taken, they are often overinclusive, leading to a loss of freedom from the people who aren't part of the problem that is allegedly being addressed.
Pretty much every licensing scheme known to man limits freedom.
Yeah but a lot of those states don't have free spinning rims, alcohol and playstation handouts/subsidies for people, so there's a lot less to pay for.
Rod or Todd Flanders (ale): What do taxes pay for Daddy?
Ned Flanders: Oh, why, everything! Policemen, trees, sunshine! And lets not forget the folks who just don't feel like working, God bless 'em!
Completely understand your point ...
Though I don't see people selling beer on eBay illegally as collateral damage.
For those claiming the selling on eBay is 'illegal,' I ask you whether you believe laws about alcohol sales apply to private sellers, non-business entities. If they do, then there is absolutely no difference, legally, between trading beer here and people who sell it on eBay, because the beer in the trade constitutes a barter transaction which is the same from a legal basis as a cash purchase.
Which means anyone gloating about this is just going to look rather silly when 20/20 does an investigation here and gets someone to send a minor some Pliny the Elder.
I can certainly understand why all you "beer traders" are against eBay because "underage buyers are illegally obtaining alcohol." However I would LOVE to know how many of you ask your trading partners for a copy of their drivers license before sending a package.
Same question goes to you Jason...
I think the whole thing is bullshit
Yes I know you die hard traders disagree but it was a viable system that allowed me to try MANY beers I never would of have the opportunity to try living here in WNY
No one ever held a gun to anyones head and forced them to buy beers off EBAY.
Just because of a stupid sting operation that obviously was set up blows me away that EBAY had to kowtow .
I'm not aware of anyone ever selling beer illegally on ebay. I've read lots of opinions that believe it happens, but never has a court of law agreed with said opinions.
Because those licensing laws do so much to benefit the consumer, amirite?!
It is a mess ... probably will be forever. Not saying I agree with current laws but they are there, free for the changing as well.
So if the laws explicitly prevented beer trading as it occurs here on BA, you'd be a law-abiding citizen and totally A-OK with that?
Ahahhahaha. Yeah. Right.
How many brewers violated the laws of their state to ship beers directly to you and Todd in the last few years?
Im just glad that this gets rid of a group of people who come to beer releases or buy every limited release just to profit from it. Is it going to stop it completely? No. But I have seen way to many people come into a shop to just buy a bottle of a limited release and its online for sale within the hour. When I went up to Flossmoor for the BA HiFi release, I remember that by the time we left, there were a dozen bottles listed for sale. One guy had taken a picture of the bottle in his hand right outside the brewery and put it up on eBay. I was pretty pissed about it considering I drove for five hours to get there at 9am and was #140-something. I was sweating that I wasnt going to get anything for the travel and the wait and then here is a guy that was in front of me that bought his share just to sell it. He didnt care about it. Yes I ended up getting my bottles, but it just doesnt seem right. And yes, it can be argued about supply and demand and freedoms and all that other shit but if you do not have a license to sell alcohol, then you cant sell the damn stuff!
Less government. NOT more government people..... COME ON. The number of kids stealing thier parents card and buying expensive beer on EBAY is way way way less than 1%.... Does that just mean lets do away with it all?... The percentage of the kids taking beer from their parents refrigerator or hard alcohol cabinets are WAY WAY WAY higher... Lets make it manditory that parents must have a lock on their alcohol cabinets... Wait, then there might be a kid who takes the keys and opens it and 20/20 does a story on the bad parents... HHmmm... Lets just not allow anyone to by beer or alcohol... That will solve it!
The only reason why people I guess were able to sell on EBAY is because the Brewerys allow it...... No one is selling bud light because it is everywhere. If the brewerys distributed more no one would be selling... get investors who would gladly help, make more product, distribute more, make more money, stop complaining... That is my five step help program.... Now go ahead and bag on it....
Good. If I receive one more beermail stating " I can trade this but "X" beer sales for $XXX on EBAY" I am going to go berserk"er".
Has anyone checked if the beer listings on craigslist have increased recently?
I don't really use Craigslist, but isn't that just local in person stuff?
Yeah, selling beer on Craigslist would be impossible because they compartmentalize results to different localities. eBay works because national demand can be satisfied by a single search.
The loss of eBay beer sales is really a loss of a marketplace. If you can't purchase something in a market, doesn't the value of that item start to approach zero? (doesn't matter what it took to produce or what you think its worth, if you can't sell it to someone its worthless to them). Loss of the market and the hype machine that went with it means less people camping out for rare beers. It means less people can try rare beers. It means less people will know about and talk about rare beers. Eventually do the rare beers become less rare? Eventually do the brewers with the big release events start seeing fewer people? eBay might have been an illegal market, but it was a market that worked for some people. No matter how much brewers complained about eBay, they benefited in the end from the hype and the extended market. Sounds like collateral damage to me.
As long as trading happens, chatter about rare beers will always be prevalent.
How does a rare beer become less rare other than increased production? Do you mean less hyped? As long as trading occurs, hype will be there.
I really don't see brewers losing business over the banning of ebay sales. The beers I see on ebay tend to be ones in high demand. There will still be plenty of locals/traders who will buy up every bottle of an in-demand beer within days.
As long as there are laws which limit my right to sell and buy beer, like there are now, I will go for the strategy I believe yields me cheapest best beer easiest under those laws. As far as ebay getting out of the secondary fine beer market.
Let the door not hit ya
Where my dog shoulda bit ya.
As far as when 20/20 does another ratings grab at the expense of beer trading? How will they explain how the Ca. kid got his Pliny to trade for Flower Power, ayy? And even if they did succeed and trample trading, I guess I will look for the next best avenue of availability, enjoy all my locals even more, brew more and better beer myself.
The moral issues here aren't gonna be solved, i.e. punitive taxation to enforce group morality, govt. makes too much from it. They'll make speeding in your car legal before they end alcohol tax.
Congratulations: you've just solved the problem of underage drinking.
I am more angry about people who buy small release beers just to resell it at a 300% mark up (license or not) then I am about underage drinking. Im not looking at just Ebay here, I am also talking about liquor stores and bars that mark stuff up 300% because they know its rare or whatever. Unfortunately Ebay gave them this inflated price structure to mimic. What will places like Toronado do now to justify its crazy bottle prices?!
We all had older siblings, friends, liquir cabinets, ect to get us booze. Ebay didn't create it, shutting down Ebay won't fix it.
I hate to say this but you would have been much better off doing whatever you'd rather be doing that day or putting in some overtime or something like that, unless you really enjoyed the road trip in which case I don't understand why it made you so mad, than driving 5 hours for said brew. You could have sat at home and bought the very beer you saw this guy putting up on ebay. You would have spent less money getting this beer, enjoyed the afternoon and this guy could have made a tidy profit. That was the beauty of the ebay market that was available. The buyer and the seller both profit from the relationship. Without that market many people will resort to more expensive and less efficient means to get the beer they want, like road trips, vacations, craigslist or wherever they are selling them now, etc.
That said I never used ebay to buy beer but wouldn't hesitate if I found something I wanted for a decent price.
I wasnt as mad about it as you seem to think I was. I had so much fun going on that trip. Between all of us, I got my four bottles and one of my buddies got two. And I am in no way going to put money into a guys pocket who is taking the bottles away from the public just to make a profit. I respect your opinion, but what you speak of is the same bullshit that 99% of the people here are against. And why would I buy a bottle for $100? Did you even think about your response before you posted it? Gas ran me about fifty and the bottles were only $15 each. I dont understand your logic at all.
I won't be your friend if I drive 5 hours and don't get bottles cause you want to turn a profit. If you think this is ok, buy your bottles and while at the brewery try and sell them to the guy at the end of the line that didn't make the cut.
Sadly the days when that 99% figure was right on are long gone. I did a poll to find peoples' attitudes about ebay selling and almost 40 % of BA's who responded thought at least some things about ebay were good. Gone are the days when most everyone thought the ebay mentality in the trading forum was a bad thing.
On the plus side, at least for me, but I suspect for most folks, so much great beer is now available locally here that it is less and less of an issue. I suspect eventually beer will not become like wine, and a huge and prohibitively costly secondary market will not come to be, since there is no season for beer making, hops and barley are more easily grown and more readily available, and the time it takes to make a fine beer is far less than that to produce a fine wine. Eventually there will just be fine beer so readily available no one will think to have this discussion.
Great analogy! If someone did what you said, they would get a swift kick in the nuts ! But the anonymity of the Internet lets them do this.
It's interesting that ticket scalping is relatively accepted - granted, many people don't like it, but you don't see scalpers being chased away by a group of people outside venues. They provide a service that many normal people utilize and don't bat an eye doing it.
Will the acceptance of secondary markets occur in the beer community? Probably not, but it's interesting to see that similar secondary markets have become accepted.
I don't believe there's an analogue between ticket scalpers and beer resellers. Ticketmaster and the secondary market they've created is an absolute abomination.
All I'm saying is that most people don't look down on somebody for going up to a scalper outside a football game to get tickets before the game or scream/yell/complain about scalpers.
I do look down on them.
Yeah, I wouldn't pay that either, no matter the beer. The point is that someone probably paid that or a similar price for the beer because they didn't want to drive 8, 10, 14 hours, whatever. Whoever buys the bottles takes them away from the public. What's the difference if they drink them, hoard them in their cellars or sell them. I've seen cellars on here that must rival even the prolific ebay sellers.
What if I just want to cellar them or even drink them. How about I donate my beer to the homeless. Please tell me what I must do with my beer.
really? is that why ciggaret sales contiune? Is that why we had a huge boom in the 90's and increased taxes? I really thought no one believed in lassie fare economics any more... guess I was wrong...
I think you have missed the point we are trying to make. Im beginning to think you have sold your bottles before. Do whatever you want with anything you buy, just dont ask for any respect for your choices.
This is very sad to me because my wife gets my a Westy 12 every year for Christmas and now she doesnt know how to get it for me.