End of Year Site Updates

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Dec 30, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. champ103

    champ103 Poo-Bah (5,230) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
    Society

    Never said it should be a breweries current tap menu, but if the definition of an active beer excludes beers that are currently actively being brewed, then the system isn't right IMO. Just giving my thoughts on this, not trying to be overly argumentative, and I'll leave it at that. Cheers.
     
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    The system isn't wrong. It's working exactly as designed and outlined in the updates. You simply don't agree on the wording/definitions/critera being applied, which is fine. :+1:
     
    Rug, dbrauneis and champ103 like this.
  3. Bhubbard34

    Bhubbard34 Aspirant (262) Mar 4, 2016 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    @Todd correct me if wrong but if these beers he mentions are currently available on tap and being brewed…then @champ103 just needs needs to suggest an edit using the “beer tools” tab and let the mods know to change the beer from inactive to active…..correct?
     
  4. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    The caveat being that if the beers haven't been rated within the last two years, they'll get auto-tagged as inactive again.
     
    champ103 likes this.
  5. champ103

    champ103 Poo-Bah (5,230) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
    Society

    From my understanding it is the date it was last reviewed, which is my issue. Again, like Todd said, its my opinion, and I still stand by it, but I'm probably getting more hung up than I should...
     
    beergoot, Harrison8 and BBThunderbolt like this.
  6. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Poo-Bah (9,951) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Moderator Society Trader

    Instead of checking each tab (Active/New/Inactive) separately, why don’t you just check the All tab?
     
  7. champ103

    champ103 Poo-Bah (5,230) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
    Society

    Good point, could that be the default then? Since everything else has more to do with the date it was last reviewed. Would probably be better just to see that first, and then the the brake downs with the other tabs if you want. Just an idea...
     
    beergoot and BBThunderbolt like this.
  8. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    The All tab is only viewable by logged in users. While we could have different default lists based on if you're logged in or not, the list of all beers can get massive for many brewers. We're talking loading hundreds/thousands of beers as the default.
     
  9. cyclonece09

    cyclonece09 Poo-Bah (2,376) Aug 5, 2008 Wisconsin
    Society

    I'm fine with the new system. It isn't that hard to tag an "inactive" beer as active if it slips through. I have done this with Milwaukee (it seems there isn't that active of a BA reviewing group here) in the past, normally with a link to the website if available, and within 12 hours the admins have reactivated it to active or sent me a PM with why they didn't. Give it a try. It isn't that bad.
     
  10. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Poo-Bah (4,877) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Society Trader

    I'd argue it's not difficult to tag a beer 'retired' either, and then there is some backcheck on the authenticity of the change, instead of leaning on the number of local users to rate / review. Especially considering both: the lack of active users, and the inability to re-check in a beer. Makes me wonder how funky local brewery lists will look in a couple years with just one or two local, active members.

    Those are just my opinions. I expressed this in the last thread - allow users to report beers for retirement, but if this current system is deemed best, I'll see for myself.
     
    Sheppard, o29, PapaGoose03 and 2 others like this.
  11. cyclonece09

    cyclonece09 Poo-Bah (2,376) Aug 5, 2008 Wisconsin
    Society

    The old system retired all "one-off" beers retired after one year of adding. So there has always been some system of automatically retiring beers. Like @Todd stated earlier, the vast majority of beers brewed these days that are added are one-offs. And sometimes its years before they may come back. I think that two years is more than generous to keep beers active.

    As you stated, this is my opinion. And I bet if @Todd and the admins keep getting requests of wrongly retired that is tied to the current algorithm, I bet they will tweak it.
     
    Harrison8 likes this.
  12. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Poo-Bah (4,877) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Society Trader

    I never expressed sentiments on the first part. I don't disagree. The One-Offs retiring was positive. It's up to the initial user, and not creating a complete and full user database in a given market. Considering the swap to five reviews for BA rating, this change seems counterintuitive. Five ratings is admitting that we can't get to ten consistently in small or medium markets - so how will we continuously keep beer 'active' thru ratings / reviews? Especially considering users can only rate / review a beer once (unless this is changing in '22.)

    I'm barking up the wrong tree at this point. My opinion has been expressed in this thread and the one prior. If the site creators deem these changes best, then that's the way it is. There are others smarter than me, I just want an accurate representation of my market on BA.
     
    o29, Rug, PapaGoose03 and 2 others like this.
  13. dbl_delta

    dbl_delta Poo-Bah (3,292) Sep 22, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Spot on. There are hundreds (thousands?) of microbreweries cranking out some world-class product, but they were always under the ranking system's radar. The change in the method of calculating rankings could allow these breweries to share the "top" limelight with the usual suspects.
    Yes, it changes the "top" rankings. But it exposes everyone to a broader spectrum of excellent beers.
     
    Rug, FBarber, Harrison8 and 1 other person like this.
  14. beergoot

    beergoot Poo-Bah (7,852) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Society Trader

    Can editing an older existing review (e.g., re-visiting / re-reviewing a beer) somehow be date/time stamped so that it would count as a new rating for active / inactive status purposes?
     
    AlcahueteJ, Rug, champ103 and 3 others like this.
  15. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (5,619) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Moderator Society Trader

    I know there has been discussion about allowing multiple reviews of the same beer - that would dovetail nicely with what you are suggesting.
     
    Sheppard, Rug, Todd and 2 others like this.
  16. beergoot

    beergoot Poo-Bah (7,852) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Society Trader

    Yes, something along the lines of either idea would help people like @champ103 keep those small time beers in the active category. It could possibly help case loads for you mods, too.

    As one who likes to re-rate and re-review an old beer, either option would be nice. Beers, taste buds, plus impressions and opinions change over time. It's interesting to go back and reevaluate things, especially in the beer world.
     
    AlcahueteJ, Sheppard, Rug and 5 others like this.
  17. Bhubbard34

    Bhubbard34 Aspirant (262) Mar 4, 2016 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Overall I like the new updates…..

    However the fact that a simple message to the mods saying hey this beer is retired gets it to “inactive” status…..but a message To the mods saying hey this beer is “active” I’m literally sitting at the brewery drinking it now won’t necessarily change its status, does seem like something might need tweaked
     
    Sheppard, o29, Todd and 1 other person like this.
  18. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    That's not what "active" means. It means that it's active on BeerAdvocate (rated or added within the last two years), so unless you plan on rating it...it's a nonissue. Drink it and carry on! Otherwise rate it and use the beer tools to propose an edit. Easy, and we'll be exploring making the process easier than that.
     
  19. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Poo-Bah (9,286) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    No.

    That's unpossible. "World Class" is an amorphous, meaningless phrase. If we were to accept that 'world class' meant something, it would mean the peak of the peak. The very best of all the very best. Thousands of breweries cannot all be making thousands of of 'world class beers'. If that were true, then 'world class' would be the average. Do you think the average beer is world class?

    Let us equate beer to athletics. I think we can agree that all Olympic level athlete's (Jamaican bobsled, and Eddie The Eagle situations aside) are very high end athletes. Are they all world class? No. They're the best in their country. But when the best athlete from a country doesn't even qualify for the finals in their event, I think we can also agree that that athlete is hardly world class.

    Same with beer. There are plenty of beers I love, but that aren't even the best examples of the style locally/regionally, let alone nationally, let alone on a world wide scale.
     
  20. papposilenus

    papposilenus Poo-Bah (1,901) Jun 21, 2014 New Hampshire
    Society

    This strikes me as being gratuitously disputatious.

    However, in the spirit of meaningless argument, I would contend that Olympic level athletes are world class, and that that's what makes them Olympic level. I have no idea why I felt the need to type that out.
     
    Ronmarley1 likes this.
  21. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Poo-Bah (9,286) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    No. We just live in a time when a lot of folks seem to need validation for every thing. How many times over the years, in threads about ratings and reviews, have we seen some post something similar to "I look at the ratings before I buy the beer, so I only buy high rated beer, so of course it's gonna get a high score, and that's why my average X.XX"? A lot of folks seem to have the need to only consume the "best"; they'll buy the $200 sneakers when they're no better than the $50 sneakers from the same company.

    Same with beer, they'll stand in line, or make trades, or join societies to get limited beers. And because they were hard to obtain, they must be 'better' right? Why buy the $50 sneaker when the $200 sneaker is "world class"? Must be a world class sneaker, because this Ballers name is on it, right?

    My point was not to be argumentative just for the sake of it, but to point out that the term World Class is, to quote me, "amorphous and meaningless". If you name the beer of your choosing, that you think is world class, I can easily find a beer that is its equal or better. If world class is to have a meaning, it would mean that that item, person, whatever, has few, if any, equals in the world.

    World Class, especially when referring to beer, has no rational meaning. It does have emotional meaning to people who apply it to the beer they love.
     
  22. papposilenus

    papposilenus Poo-Bah (1,901) Jun 21, 2014 New Hampshire
    Society

    Just to be clear, I didn't really care. I was just drinking my coffee and needed something to do.
     
  23. JLK7299

    JLK7299 Meyvn (1,371) Apr 21, 2016 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    Whelp the changes to the top 250 brought me from 210 to 185.

    the battle continues.
     
  24. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    [​IMG]
     
    AlcahueteJ, PapaGoose03 and FBarber like this.
  25. ovaltine

    ovaltine Poo-Bah (4,002) Apr 6, 2010 Indiana
    Society Trader

    I went from around 80 to 61, which is roughly a 25% change. That seems fairly substantial for something that’s (IMHO) supposed to represent “the best of the best.” The eye opener to me when checking the list was the number of beers that have minimal ratings, including a beer in the Top 10 with less than 100 reviews and a number of beers on the overall list with reviews in the twenties (the low is 22).

    That, to me, will more resemble a “Flavor of the Month” list, which is fine, but it seems to stray from the “Top 250” concept, IMHO.

    Or we can just call it “The Tree House” list. I keed, I keed (I really enjoy Tree House’s stuff)!!!
     
    Sheppard, ChicagoJ and BBThunderbolt like this.
  26. BalancingBrooms

    BalancingBrooms Meyvn (1,482) Aug 22, 2013 Illinois
    Trader

    I like getting rid of the availability, that was way too complicated
     
    EdFed, Rug, FBarber and 1 other person like this.
  27. Hopelessly0

    Hopelessly0 Disciple (308) May 13, 2019 California
    Trader

    After going through the new list, I think the new beers added is more accurate of what is truly Top 250. Some of these though have so few reviews and I don't think should be on there with so few ratings.

    I'm only a little salty that my count went from essentially 249 to 226, but glad it didn't drop more than that.
     
    Sheppard and Bhubbard34 like this.
  28. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    If we raised the minimum or applied a threshold on top of the ranking, we'd be manipulating the algorithm to achieve a desired result and tens of thousands of beers would never stand a chance. The complete opposite of these updates.
     
    PapaGoose03 and Rug like this.
  29. Gkruszewski

    Gkruszewski Poo-Bah (2,676) Nov 1, 2013 New York
    Society Trader

    Is there a way that after all is sorted out, can we visit a top 100 retired beer list
     
    Hopelessly0 and Todd like this.
  30. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    Yep. I hint at this in the post and hope to work on it soon.
     
    AlcahueteJ, Bhubbard34 and FBarber like this.
  31. Gkruszewski

    Gkruszewski Poo-Bah (2,676) Nov 1, 2013 New York
    Society Trader

    Sounds great! It been a long waiting since we had a true top rated retired list. All the improvements keeps the site great. Looking forward to 2022 and beyond
     
  32. Sheppard

    Sheppard Poo-Bah (2,057) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    I don't want to say I have fatigue for a certain brewery that dominates the ratings but I am glad to see that the list has led to some changes. Then again, I don't really pursue the Top 250 so I am disappointed for those of you who do and are going to have to endure these changes. I'm interested to see how this does for the next 3-6 months. I am looking forward to seeing how this evolves.
     
    ChicagoJ likes this.
  33. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,564) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.