English vs. German Ale

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Warwick7, Sep 10, 2019 at 3:08 PM.

  1. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    How do these compare? My assertion is that England is more Malt focused and Germany is more Wheat focused.
     
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  2. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,854) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    But isn't wheat just a type of malt? I'm not sure what you're getting at ...
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,128) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    “Germany is more Wheat focused”

    Germany does not typically refer to their top fermented beers using the word of “ale”. Instead they are detailed as being obergärig (top-fermented).

    The types of ales you will find in Germany are Hefeweizen, Kölsch, Altbier, Roggenbier, Gose, Berliner Weisse,..

    And while the Heferweizen, Gose and Berliner Weisse beers will be brewed with a portion of wheat malt the others ales typically do not contain wheat. So, to characterize German Ales as being “wheat focused” would be a limiting viewpoint.

    Cheers!
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,128) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    For the case of German beers they do utilize wheat malt (i.e., wheat that is malted).

    Other beer styles such as Witbier utilize raw wheat.

    Cheers!
     
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  5. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    I must have a lot to learn most of there Ales I saw were Wheat Ales.

    Is wheat listed in the purity law?

    Ive spent all this time time drinking English Ale, so I dont know much at all about Germany.
     
  6. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    I am attracted to Medieval style labels, Im not sure how Much I will get into Wheat Ales. There Great but I have been drinking Leffe for awhile and have been drinking Wells Banana Bread Beer. Would like to drink something else.

    What sticks out to me so far is Aecht Schlenkerla line and Aventinus.

    I know its a Wheat Ale but I cant deny the cover art.
     
  7. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    I have had Korbinian before and it was gorgoues. Gothic cover art and intense Malt flavor I am in heaven.
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,128) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    It is permitted now:

    "In order to accommodate the co-existence of the two traditions, the 1919 Reinheitsgebot effectively became two laws; the old, restrictive one for lagers and a more lenient one for ales. The bifurcated “Reinheitsgebot” has caused quite a bit of confusion over the years. In the popular imagination, all German beer is made with only barley, hops, water and yeast. But an ale brewery making beer with wheat malt, coriander and salt is also Reinheitsgebot-compliant, thanks to the expanded rules. There are just so few of those latter beers left that few people have had occasion to take notice."

    http://allaboutbeer.com/article/happy-birthday-reinheitsgebot/

    Cheers!
     
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,456) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

  10. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,854) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    Aecht Schlenkerla's beers are rauchbiers so they will be (quite imho) smoky.

    You really should try more German beers - I am confident you will find other beers you like.
     
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  11. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    From what I have seen so far the comparable styles are. I have only had a dopplebock and not the two other styles.

    Golden Ale Kolsch

    Brown Ale Bock

    Stout Schwarzbier
     
  12. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    The only difference Ive noticed so far Is language and that Germany produces a lot of Wheat Ales. maybe Dopplebock is more different then Brown Ale then I think. At any rate it was delicious.
     
  13. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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  14. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (1,838) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    :astonished: Wait, so this wasn't an authentic brew?:wink:
    [​IMG]
    No wonder it was 79¢ a sixpack.:grimacing:
     
  15. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,949) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    Overall, I am not a fan of using the word "Ale" for German beers. All that means is that they are top fermenting, but Weizens are yeasty wheat beers, Berliner Weisse is more of a sour, and Kolsch and Altbier are hybrids that kinda drink more like lagers. Germans don't typically say ale either.

    Ale, when not just talking about yeast, is a term typically applied to English beers, and American ones by proxy. Even the English don't typically include porters and stouts when simply saying ale. The whole ale vs lager thing is very limiting.
     
  16. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    Yeah I am looking forward to it. I enjoy that they come in larger bottles. I dont seem them often in English Ale besides Samuel Smith but I do see them in Trappist Ale and German Ale
     
  17. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    Yeah I come from drinking English Ale so youll have to pardon my terminology. It wasnt long ago where I didnt know anything about German Imports.

    I just go with my own terminology rather then Debate. To me Session Ale ends at 4.9 if not higer and Stouts are Ales.
     
  18. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    Aetch Weizen Says Ale on the bottom but they could be for the English speking market not Germans.
     
  19. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,949) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    Oh, nothing to pardon; just giving my perspective. And yeah, people that say a sessionable beer can be 5% or higher drive me crazy. :slight_smile:
     
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  20. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    Appreciate it, My favorite is 3 - 4.9%. Thank God we have Ale in the 4 percentage still.
     
  21. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,128) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    A more appropriate comparable German beer to an English Brown Ale would be Altbier.

    Cheers!
     
  22. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,611) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
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    Yeah, kinda sorta. Brown ales are closer to dunkels or some of the sweeter mass-produced altbiers. The others should have some crossover with the flavor profile.
    To me the closest flavor cousins I've found are Dubbel and Weizenbock.
     
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  23. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    Is there anything besides Wheat Ales and Rauchbiers that stands out in German imports? German Ale is delcious but maybe its cause Im not an expert but it didnt taste that different from what ive already had. Korbinian kind of did though.
     
  24. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,854) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    If you are only looking for an "ale" I'd try to track down Uerige alt or Uerige sticke.

    But, I'd also recommend you track down some other German styles such as a dunkel?

    Edit: If you liked Korbinian, get yourself some Celebrator and Salvator.
     
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  25. marquis

    marquis Crusader (772) Nov 20, 2005 United Kingdom (England)

    [​IMG]
    And Kolsch in Germany is a top fermented lager (obergäriges lagerbier ) because the term lager simply means to put the beer in cold storage.
    [​IMG]
     
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  26. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,949) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    Yeah, lager is a verb in Germany and a noun in England. Which is why we should stop saying ale in this thread. :slight_smile: Can we just discuss German "beer" for someone into English beer?
     
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  27. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,456) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Lager means several things in German, beyond what we beer folks think.

    Recently a friend came across a photo of her Father after the war, "Lager Baracke 44". It translates to Camp Barrack 44, as he was a displaced person after the war.

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Lager

    Cold storage is understood for beer.
     
    #27 hopfenunmaltz, Sep 10, 2019 at 7:52 PM
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 8:05 PM
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  28. Coronaeus

    Coronaeus Savant (914) Apr 21, 2014 Ontario (Canada)
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    I was going to say the same thing. From your other threads, I get the sense you’d like Altbier. Whether imported or domestic, I would give that a try.

    Also, lager/ale distinctions aside, if you like porters and stouts, you may like Schwartzbier. I tend to like the same things in Schwartzbier as I do in English porters.
     
  29. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,128) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Yup! I homebrew a batch (Sticke version) every year. Unfortunately Altbier is not a popular style for US craft beer drinkers (i.e., not too many US craft brewed versions and not many imports available in my area). So I make my own.:slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
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  30. Coronaeus

    Coronaeus Savant (914) Apr 21, 2014 Ontario (Canada)
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    Oops. I meant to quote you to reference back to the op and his tastes.

    That is true here too. Very few good altbiers, and, almost never any imports.
     
  31. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,128) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Hmm?:thinking_face:

    Not sure what your question here is.:confused:

    Cheers!
     
  32. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (6,783) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
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    Uerige was in Casper for a short while. They sold out quickly so I reckon that I wasn't the only fan. Dammit.
     
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  33. Coronaeus

    Coronaeus Savant (914) Apr 21, 2014 Ontario (Canada)
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    Ha! I’m really failing with my posts today!

    I just mean I quoted your post to agree with you about the altbier/brown ale comparison you made and that the user who started the thread would likely enjoy altbier, from what I have seen in the other threads he has started.

    Sorry for the confusion.
     
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  34. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,611) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
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    Not sure if it's just my area, but none of the altstadt dry/hoppy alts make it here. Diebels is around and I believe I've seen Frankenheim and Schlosse elsewhere, but that's it. Those are all sweeter and might as well be a different style IMO. Not necessarily better or worse, but simply different. Uerige only sends sticke and doppelsticke, which are just as different if not more so.
     
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  35. lastmango

    lastmango Champion (808) Dec 11, 2014 Pennsylvania
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    All three are great! I'm drinking a Salvatore right now.
     
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  36. thesherrybomber

    thesherrybomber Aspirant (284) Jun 13, 2017 California
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    Does "dusty hunting" exist in the beer world?
     
  37. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (6,783) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
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    Mine weren't dusty but I didn't recall any dating which I would have included in my reviews of the Alt and Sticke.

    Besides, a fast selling beer gathers no dust. :wink:
     
  38. tzieser

    tzieser Meyvn (1,059) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey
    Trader

    Just curious, are you an American citizen originally or did you move here? Did you spend a good amount of time across the pond? The only reason I ask is that you seem to post a lot of threads concerning British ales (and relevant styles). Not a complaint, these threads are a refreshing change-- just curious as to your background.

    Cheers:beers:
     
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  39. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Initiate (56) May 25, 2019 Maryland
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    I lived In Maryland all My life. I grew up on Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. I live in historic town with gorgoues green nature everywhere and Gothic church down the street. We have latin mass. Are state is full of English location names. Cheltenham, MD. Chetlenham, England where Brian Jones was born and I flipped when I saw there was a road called Plantaganet circle.

    I am a Medievalist and that is what I spend my life on when not working. My first and last name are English, my last name is Headley which is Anglo Saxon and is also where Led Zeppelin recorded Stairway to Heaven and Led Zeppelin IV.

    I have not found a Cask Ale pub yet and I have a while before England but when I found out about Tynt Meadow that Made my Medievalist English heart happy. I pray that Traditional Ale Breweries like Samuel Smith in England and All over Europe stay strong. I live for Ale with Medieval art and Gothic font


    Cheers,

    Warwick
     
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  40. tzieser

    tzieser Meyvn (1,059) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey
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    Cool background story, Warwick. Very interesting. I can relate to a lot of that, growing up in Massachusetts where pretty much every other town town is named after a place in England (i.e. Worcester, Dartmouth, Sudbury, Medford, Haverhill, Plymouth, Marshfield, Kingston, Braintree, my hometown Duxbury was named after some woods where Myles Standish once grew up, etc etc I could go on all day).


    You would probably enjoy some of the beers from Middle Ages Brewing Company (https://www.middleagesbrewing.com/), they are from up in Syracuse. I was a really big fan when they used to distribute down to MA but I haven't seen them around in forever. I was a big fan of their "Grail Ale" and a really good ESB. Judging from their website, they seem to have adjusted more towards the "new wave" style of beers, less concentrated on the English-styles that made them what they are. My MA local brewery, Mayflower Brewing, has taken a similar approach unfortunately. To be honest, aside from Hogshead out in Denver I cannot think of a single brewery that's still concentrated on English-style ales. Not sure how old you are, but you probably would've loved the micobrew scene of the 90s (not that I'd know personally)....by the time I turned 21 in late '07 the tides already started turning towards the American style (overhopped, etc.).

    Anyway, keep fighting the good fight. More and more German-focused breweries are on the rise, we can only hope more English-focused breweries will follow suit

    Cheers
     
    #40 tzieser, Sep 11, 2019 at 1:23 AM
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 1:28 AM