Ethanol fumes set off CO/Gas Detector?!

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by ColForbinBC, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. ColForbinBC

    ColForbinBC Pooh-Bah (2,473) Sep 9, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    After transferring my saison to the secondary the other night (downstairs in my basement), I was cleaning out the fermenter in the kitchen sink. The beer had a good amount of ethanol notes in the aroma, but nothing too overpowering. After rousing the yeast cake with a couple of rinses and dumping into the sink, the kitchen filled with ethanol fumes. After two quick rinses, I filled up the fermenter to the top added some oxy clean and was just about to move it from the sink when the kitchen CO/Gas detector went off. The display said alternated between "GAS" and "228" (ppm). The detector was about 8ft away from the sink. Obviously, this freaked me out, but not as much as it freaked out my wife, seeing as how we have two young children.

    I typically ferment in a storage area of my basement. My basement is 80% finished, with 20% walled off for storage. In this storage area are also my water heater and furnace.

    I am attacking this from the angle that any measurable levels of combustible gas are unacceptable.
    So, a couple of questions:
    1) Has anyone encountered this before?
    2) During fermentation, how much of this is released into the air that could potentially ignite given the somewhat close proximity (10-12ft) to two pilot lights?



    TL;DR: fumes from fermenter set off CO/Gas detector, what the fuck?
     
  2. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    Are you sure you didn't smell CO2 and not ethanol? It is probably more likely you were releasing CO2 from the yeast cake/beer unless your beer was 40% abv.
     
  3. ColForbinBC

    ColForbinBC Pooh-Bah (2,473) Sep 9, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    CO2 is odorless. Originally, that was my assumption as well. However, this is a CO detector, I couldn't find any info of it detecting CO2 as well (just CO, radon, and natural gas). Could I have released some CO into the air (also odorless) while cleaning out the yeast? I have no idea.

    EDIT: And as far as the abv, the beer is projected to be in the 6-7% range. I didn't take a reading at transfer
     
  4. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    CO2 smells acidic. Ethanol smells fruity. They should be very easy to tell apart. Have you ever taken a whiff of a fermenting beer? That burn is CO2.
     
  5. ColForbinBC

    ColForbinBC Pooh-Bah (2,473) Sep 9, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Ok, but still, my detector does not detect CO2. So something else was setting off the alarm.
     
  6. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I don't think it was the beer either. I would look for another cause or get another meter, those thing do degrade and go bad.
     
  7. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    So why would you think it was ethanol?
     
  8. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Did you happen to fart during all of this?
     
  9. ColForbinBC

    ColForbinBC Pooh-Bah (2,473) Sep 9, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Plausible, yes. I checked the stove and all other potential devices and everything seemed OK. The device is not very old, maybe about a year. However, my wife decided to do a test to see if it was in fact the beer yesterday while I was at work. She took the detector to the basement and plugged it in near the fermenter filled with oxy clean. The blow off jug and two oak spirals (in unsealed ziplock) were also in the area, and the detector went off again. That is two alarms from two separate locations from the same equipment. Can't be a rogue alarm.

    I cleaned everything up last night when I got home from work and set the alarm in the basement where all my equipment is. No alarms all night and so far today.
     
  10. ColForbinBC

    ColForbinBC Pooh-Bah (2,473) Sep 9, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Because ethanol is the other byproduct of fermentation and it had that fusel alcohol smell.
     
  11. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    So now you are saying oxiclean sets it off? If this is in your basement you need to get a professional in there to check the CO levels.
     
  12. ColForbinBC

    ColForbinBC Pooh-Bah (2,473) Sep 9, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Ha. No, not the oxyclean. The oak spirals and blow off jug were giving off the same smell. I have used oxyclean many times in the area of the detector with no alarm.

    Sorry, if I am being confusing, but you're not following me here....
    I have three CO detectors in my house, only the one near the fumes went off.
     
  13. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    The only part I don't follow is why you would think it was the beer if the alarms are going off in the part of your basement with your furnace when furnaces are known to produce CO gas.
     
  14. epk

    epk Pundit (813) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Because he was washing out the fermenter just as the alarm went off and then tested the alarm next to the equipment in a separate incident. It's a case of - What are the odds of those two happening at he same time?

    In other words, he doesn't know what's doing it but it could be related to the whatever was or is in his carboy.

    If there was a CO problem in the basement, wouldn't the alarm be going off without putting it near the carboy?
     
  15. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,623) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    If you do some reading on CO2 recovery in a brewery, you will find that part of the process is to remove the esters and alcohols from the CO2 that is captured. The liquid stuff smells very hot and funky from the high concentration of alcohol, fusels, and esters. Just saying.
     
  16. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    I'd say the odds of a CO alarm going off in a confined space with a furnace are pretty high. As for the kitchen, it is weird but maybe some CO crept into the fermenter.
    I was just pointing out that it probably wasn't ethanol because this is beer not grain alcohol.
     
  17. epk

    epk Pundit (813) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    I actually agree with you that it's not ethanol.

    I think it's the oxyclean combined with a sensitive damn alarm. Oxyclean contains hydrogen peroxide. I read that certain sensors can pick bleach (hydrogen peroxide).

    Side note - steam from my damn shower sets off my fire alarm with a paced chirp. I know it's not a CO alarm, but still. annoying.
     
  18. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    My fire alarm does the same thing, but isn't bleach a chlorinated compound
    Dit?

    Edit: bleach is both chlorinated and non-chlorinated.
     
  19. epk

    epk Pundit (813) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Bleaching agents can be based on peroxides as well without chlorine and OxiClean is considered a bleach product. I'm not going to pretend to be a chemistry expert though - everything I just said, I got form the interwebz. But I do see your underlying point, chlorine-based bleach being the more volatile. Regardless, hydrogen peroxide can still bleach your hair, so it certainly has some potency, maybe it can set off an alarm too.

    Though ethanol is volatile in it's own right, flammable obviously, I just don't think that beer has enough in it. Maybe fumes from the dumping in the kitchen, but from a blow off tube?? I'm skeptical.

    He should still look into the possibility of CO though - that's no joke.
     
  20. ColForbinBC

    ColForbinBC Pooh-Bah (2,473) Sep 9, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    I honestly do not know if it was the ethanol, I was just assuming based on it not being the CO2, due to the type of detector. I know we do not have a CO problem, my wife asked a family member to come over today with a reader and we were fine. That is interesting about the oxyclean potentially causing this.
     
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