Extended Beer Rating Stats Are Back, Beer Page Updates, and Other Tweaks

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jan 14, 2022 at 1:28 AM.

  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    Hey, Everyone -

    The following updates are a collection of tweaks that I've been wanting to make for a little while, plus some updates inspired from the It's Time to Embrace Ratings thread.

    Extended Beer Rating Stats
    They're open to everyone, again. These are stats that grant more insights into the beer styles you've reviewed, breaks your reviews down by US state and country, displays your rating distribution, as well as your average beer rating across all of your beers. It also breakdowns your place ratings by country and US state too.

    Reviews
    • Everyone rates the beer (required), but reviews (optional) are thoughts (or just some basic notes) you write to backup your rating of the beer. There's no minimum character count for a review to be considered a "review," however, those with more to say will get awarded more Beer Karma (as always, no change here).
    • Removed the character counter from the review form field and adjusted the language. The whole thing made it feel like writing a review was a requirement or goal that must be achieved in order for your thoughts to be accepted and counted.
    • To support the above, we're no longer displaying or tracking the number of reviews on beer pages or user profiles (the only two places on the site that previously displayed them).
    • All of the above changes are at the display level only. There's no impact to beer stats, your stats and points, or how the rating or karma system works.
    Beer Pages
    Tabs: Like you'll see elsewhere on the site, beer and place ratings now have tabs instead of basic links:
    • Recent: feed of all recent ratings and reviews.
    • Following: ratings from the people you follow. This has been updated to only show ratings from people you follow versus ordering them first and then displaying everyone else, which was kind of confusing.
    • Poo-Bahs: replaced "Top Reviewers," as most are Poo-Bahs anyway, and only shows ratings from Poo-Bahs.
    Also:
    • Users can no longer "hide ratings." It's a negative that reinforced the divide between those who rate versus review by allowing users to hide opinions that didn't make the previous "review" cut (150 chars or more).
    • Ratings with no reviews are now displayed with collapsed data, however, rating data will be expanded when viewing your rating or linking directly to another user's rating.
    • High and Low links have been converted in to filters. You can now order ratings on the Recent, Following, and Poo-Bahs lists by date (default), highest, or lowest rating once the list count hits 10 ratings.
    • Bumped the number of ratings displayed to 40 per page.
    • Same tabs and whatnot have been added to place ratings.
    Your Beer & Place Ratings
    • Converted links into tabs.
    • "For Trade" tab only appears if you've signed up to trade.
    • Check icon = rated (no change), Lines icon = rated + you left some form of a review.
    Pagination
    Pagination links on beer and place ratings now jump to the tabs section to reduce scrolling.

    ...and that's it for now. As for other suggestions and updates (making rating and uploading images easier, new forum features, support for multiple reviews, an app, and more), I'm hoping that we'll be able to tackle a bunch of it this year.

    Enjoy.
     
  2. DIM

    DIM Poo-Bah (3,246) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Looks good for the most part. I like reading reviews though and the extra scrolling through rates is a bit cumbersome. You say you don't want to reinforce the divide between rates and reviews but there is a karma divide. Would the ability to sort by reviews first rather than ignore rates be too much of a divide?

    Thanks for all you do:beers:
     
  3. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    I've been considering an additional tab that might be helpful.
     
    Tucquan, REVZEB, jakecattleco and 6 others like this.
  4. KT3418

    KT3418 Meyvn (1,020) Mar 18, 2021 Colorado

    I noticed the stats were back today which I super appreciate, when I get a new job after the move I'm still considering paying for the sub once I'm settled
     
    Rug, Harrison8, 40ontarget and 2 others like this.
  5. UrbanCaveman

    UrbanCaveman Meyvn (1,056) Sep 30, 2014 Ohio
    Society Trader

    I'd second that, and add that I effectively do that with Untappd as well by curating my feed to friends that actually type something about the beer, rather than just toss up a quick number with a "look at me" photo.

    But I am an outlier who can't rely on ratings by strangers whose palates can handle hops, and I have to at the very least skim for keywords if I'm researching a beer I'm considering. So, take that for what it's worth.

    Otherwise, I run into examples like my experience with Von Trapp Oktoberfest - I'd had their Dunkel in the Lager Fest box, loved that one, and saw folks touting the Oktoberfest as phenomenal as well (which I do not doubt that it is, for most folks). So, I ordered a few. They were tough to get through for me. Had I gone to reviews first and read a few, I'd have been forewarned, as no few of them call out the noticeable hop character.

    As craft beer in general seems to select most folks like me out, though, that may not be that great a concern for the site as a whole. It just makes things a tad clunkier for me and any others in a similar boat having the wordless ratings always in the list.
     
    #5 UrbanCaveman, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:28 AM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022 at 3:38 AM
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  6. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (3,849) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Joining the chorus… I really liked the “hide ratings” feature and have already found the site less convenient without it. Maybe it can be renamed to make it less divisive but still allow the function?

    Also… If BA is making enhanced ratings stats available to all users, I’d love if the “You” column within styles could be a sortable column again. IIRC, that feature used to exist and I always assumed it was removed to make the “enhanced” ratings stats to financial supporters seem more special. It would be great to get that feature back. I used to use it often.
     
  7. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    Update: Ratings with no reviews are now displayed with collapsed data, however, rating data will be expanded when viewing your rating or linking directly to another user's rating.

    Discussed with the mods and did some testing. I think it's a good compromise between the goals of the updates and those who'd like to hide ratings.
     
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  8. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (3,849) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Much more user friendly — thanks.
     
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  9. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    I also brought the red user score to the top. Makes it easier to track reviews when scrolling.
     
  10. DIM

    DIM Poo-Bah (3,246) Sep 28, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Agree, good compromise. Thanks for listening!
     
    bluejacket74 and Todd like this.
  11. Rug

    Rug Meyvn (1,450) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    Definitely using the Following tab more now. Just followed quite a few BAs whose reviews I trust
     
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  12. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Poo-Bah (8,042) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
    Society

    I like the way the compressed mix of Rating and Reviews is handled.

    However, unless I missed it, I don't see a place where I can differentiate between the number of reviews vs ratings I have.

    I only mention this because while I have a view quick ratings, I am coming up on review number 5000 and now don't know how far away I am exactly, to make my 5000th review something special (assuming of course I reach this fun feat!).

    I have a ball park idea now that the changes are in, but curious if @Todd could find a way to show me somewhere in the profile (or point out to me where I haven't found it) my actual review count vs. ratings (combo of reviews and checks).

    Thanks to all the staff and hard work.
     
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  13. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    This stat doesn't currently exist as a review is no longer defined a specific number of characters for reasons stated above.
     
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  14. EmperorBevis

    EmperorBevis Poo-Bah (8,699) Sep 25, 2011 England
    Moderator Society Trader

    Sounds good Mister the Kid
     
  15. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Poo-Bah (8,042) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
    Society

    That's kind of what I thought. thanks for answering my question. Cheers!
     
    FBarber likes this.
  16. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    I'm still mulling over solutions for user stats.
     
    FBarber likes this.
  17. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (3,849) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Would setting the character count to something like “2” or “3” work?
     
  18. REVZEB

    REVZEB Poo-Bah (10,335) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    Society

    If people want a focus on ratings don’t they just use untappd? I thought the idea was this was a reviews site and untappd was the ratings one. Makes no difference to me as long as we can block ratings again. I read the reviews, not so much the scores
     
  19. zid

    zid Poo-Bah (1,669) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Society Trader

    Please take this as constructive rather than a complaint - I don't think the visual design works well. The font size combined with the loss of red color makes the ratings look more like they belong to an adjacent review rather than a separate rating. If you showed a ratings/review page to someone unfamiliar with BeerAdvocate, I'd be very surprised if they initially understood what they were looking at. If the goal in removing the ability to hide ratings was to put more value on ratings, then this visual design moves way too far in the opposite direction. They look like a footnote rather than content. I can't imagine "raters" liking this if they cared one way or the other, but people who want to hide (not see) ratings would like it.

    On a separate note, (thanks to the NA tasting thread) I just noticed that beers that have an ABV of "not listed" show up as having an ABV of "0" when viewing a brewer's list of beers. Did it used to be a dash or something non-numerical? This is very misleading.
     
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  20. agreenman19

    agreenman19 Poo-Bah (1,995) Apr 10, 2011 Connecticut
    Society Trader

    Minor bug: when looking at a brewery page, it says "you rated this beer".

    Also says "reviews by ____" or "more user reviews" when it shows both ratings and reviews. Dunno if that matters though.

    Quickly looked and didn't see a forum for bugs, so apologies if this is in the wrong place!

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    That's been the display when you click a direct link to a rating for eons. I can adjust the text, but it's working as designed.
     
    ChicagoJ and agreenman19 like this.
  22. Rug

    Rug Meyvn (1,450) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    I totally agree. I’d rather have it show up fully as it used to, even without the ability to hide ratings. It feels like it devalues ratings by only showing the overall
     
  23. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Poo-Bah (9,942) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Moderator Society Trader

    [
    I hear what both of you are saying but I like the way it collapses the data for the rating without any comments to reduce screen real estate to allow more ratings with comments to be seen without having to paginate.

    Many other sites that use user provided ratings (think Amazon) show the scores across all submitted ratings but only show the details for the people that submitted descriptive text with those ratings.
     
    FBarber, Rug and UrbanCaveman like this.
  24. Rug

    Rug Meyvn (1,450) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    I hear you as well. Maybe it could be changed to expand the rating breakdown if you click on the score. @Todd thoughts on this?
     
    #24 Rug, Jan 16, 2022 at 8:08 AM
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022 at 8:19 AM
    beer_beer likes this.
  25. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    It currently expands when you click the perma link (the date), but not in-line. I could explore that latter at some point.
     
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  26. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,236) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society

    Not sure if this has been addressed, but is there any way to show the breweries we have reviewed? Much like we can see styles we've reviewed?

    I know if we go to a brewery page it shows how many beers from that spot we've posted, but it would be nice to show a tab that lists our favorites.
     
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  27. jjamadorphd

    jjamadorphd Poo-Bah (1,891) Jul 21, 2012 Florida
    Society Trader

    I can't wait to see and experience this. Reads all good to me...
     
  28. zid

    zid Poo-Bah (1,669) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Society Trader

    You might be misunderstanding my comment. The issue isn’t the idea of reducing the data to a single line, the issue is how it has been executed from a design standpoint. The ratings no longer look like actual ratings. The font size and color choice is the opposite of the intended goal - to embrace ratings and keep them in the spotlight. They have been visually downplayed here. Conceptually, they need to be equal in importance to reviews, not lesser importance. The font size needs to be the same as for a review for this to make sense with the goals. The score needs to be red for them to look like actual user ratings. They can still have reduced info and be on a single line. I am not sure if I understand your Amazon comment correctly, because it seems like a bad comparison since @Todd ’s goal is the opposite - to make ratings more visible.
     
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  29. emerge077

    emerge077 Poo-Bah (12,889) Apr 16, 2005 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Not really a fan of changing “Top Reviewers” tab to “Poo-Bahs”. More specifically default sorting these reviews by date, when Top Reviewers used to sort by the most active reviewers. I like the added option to sort by high/low scores. It makes sense to sort by date first on the beer landing page, but not necessarily the Top Reviewers/Poo-Bahs also. My $0.02
     
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  30. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Poo-Bah (9,942) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Moderator Society Trader

    You may be misunderstanding me - I didn’t make any comment on the font choice or colors, I was in favor of the collapsing of ratings without comments to a single line this taking up less visual real estate on the screen. There is no design reason they would need to take up the same amount of space as they contain different types of information.

    More a statement that other sites that take user reviews/ratings treat all equally when adding them (not character counting or having a selection to hide a portion of the ratings) but “highlight” reviews that provide comments - they have a visual design differentiator between them for end user consumption.
     
    FBarber, Todd, zid and 1 other person like this.
  31. Todd

    Todd Founder (6,558) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society Trader

    It didn't sort by most active reviewers, but rather those with the most reviews and in most cases these were all Poo-Bahs (who also do the lion share of reviews and are some of our most active users) so you're basically looking at the same results. Syncs up with the tabs on the main Beers page too and further recognizes the contributions of our Poo-Bahs.
     
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  32. emerge077

    emerge077 Poo-Bah (12,889) Apr 16, 2005 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Right, those with the most reviews. Earlier I had typed "most prolific" reviewers, but I meant "most active" in the sense of writing the most reviews.

    It was useful to sort reviews by "Top Reviewers" to see a familiar group of the most prolific reviewers. The "following" feature sort of accomplishes this now I guess, as long as one follows all the top reviewers.
     
    Rug, ChicagoJ, REVZEB and 1 other person like this.
  33. REVZEB

    REVZEB Poo-Bah (10,335) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    Society

    I agree, I miss the "hide ratings" check box already
     
    emerge077 likes this.