Founders Brewing Co. Settles Racial Discrimination Lawsuit

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by MNAle, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Final Statements on Tracy Evans/Founders Brewing Co. Lawsuit

    The lawsuit involving Founders Brewing Co. and Tracy Evans has been dismissed after the parties reached a settlement agreement. Per the agreement, terms of the settlement will not be disclosed.

    The attached statements are what both sides have agreed to say about the settlement.

    Founders Statement:
    We are pleased to settle this case and focus on the future. Through recent discussions with Tracy, we listened, engaged in self-discovery, and reached common ground to make amends. We agreed that nobody be viewed at fault here. Most importantly, this serves as an opportunity to place our full attention on the work we now have to do, as a company of more than 600 dedicated team members, to rebuild our relationships.

    Significantly, we are committed to moving the cause of diversity and inclusion forward for Founders. We want every employee to feel valued, respected and safe. We abhor discriminatory action of any type and believe that beer should bring people together and not divide.

    -Mike Stevens and Dave Engbers, Co-Founders

    Tracy’s Statement:
    I am not going to say too much here but I want the world to know the power we have when we step forward and make ourselves heard. Upon hearing us, businesses also have the power to make changes or not. I don’t know what happens from here within the doors of Founders Brewing Co. I do know this; we have legal resolution and we have started looking at how ALL of this is affecting human lives. I don’t know what Dave and Mike have planned for the future, but I know that that “seeing color” and valuing people for who they are, and their collection of experiences is the mission. Learning from our mistakes is also part of the mission. Founders as a whole made some bad choices. I, as an individual made some mistakes but on this day we look to move forward. When someone offers to change, as humans we have a few choices and I have made the choice to see what Founders does with the path that they are about to take. To those that were affected by all of this within Founders and had nothing to do with this, I apologize. To the few of those that were affected by this and you are a part of the problem, I hope you listen to what your company is about to start saying. Craft beer is about coming together and celebrating our differences and no dollar amount should make a company want to forget that. A company is nothing without its workers and you deserve to be valued as such and there should be a clear line of what those goals are. As there are still people working for Founders that I still love very dearly, I hope for nothing but the best for Founders in the future. I will also be moving on and continuing this fight around the world as the issues that I experienced at Founders are not just a Founders issue, they happen everywhere and I vow to continue to be a vessel to help both employers and employees become better at acknowledging, understanding and dealing with them.

    Love you all, thanks for the support and let’s continue to stand up for what’s right.

    -Tracy Evans

    ###

    Source: https://foundersbrewing.com/latest-...s-on-tracy-evans-founders-brewing-co-lawsuit/
     
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  2. HawksBeerFan

    HawksBeerFan Aspirant (254) Dec 24, 2011 Illinois
    Trader

    'We agreed that nobody be viewed at fault here."

    Ah, I guess much ado about nothing then! Simple misunderstanding obviously.
     
  3. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Initiate (161) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    And this perfectly illustrates the problem with treating the sphere of public opinion like it absolutely must abide by the formality of a courtroom: 98% of these cases never actually see a courtroom and end up settling.

    While we can’t say with 100% certainty that Founder’s discriminated on the basis of race (again: nobody was claiming that you could), it becomes even more reasonable to insist that (1) one can reasonably infer that they collectively acted poorly in regards to racial dynamics which led to the suit and (2) they handled the issue incredibly poorly, either or both of which can reasonably lead consumers to such drastic acts such as choosing a different beer to buy every once in a while (the horror of modern day cancel culture, yikes).

    And yet, we’ll see the same actors in the thread suggesting that because we cannot know with 100% accuracy what happened we are unfairly demonizing Founders, or that they are being denied due process (lol), or any of the many, many strawmen exhibited in the thread (“we can’t say FOR SURE that they fired him because he’s black!!”). All of which seems small -and is!- but adds to the shitty environment that helps to preserve a status quo where minorities are treated as lesser in discrete instances and where commenters with poor reasoning skills allow that to fester and thrive by defending it.
     
  4. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    So, joining the mob demonstrates excellent reasoning skills? OK. Got it. Now, where's my pitchfork....

    (And, "strawmen" doesn't mean what it seems you think it means...)
     
  5. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Initiate (161) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    No, I didn’t imply what you took away from my comment and I’m confused as to how you think I did. Maybe you could explain?

    And again, no I think my understanding of “strawman” -as a faux argument set up to destroy as a device to avoid confronting the true arguments at play- is perfectly fine. Please let me know if you have a different understanding.
     
  6. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Meyvn (1,022) Nov 23, 2017 California
    Society Trader

    Money erases faults, that's one of its primary functions. Still, good on them for finally settling even though it always looked like the better, easier, cheaper way to go from the start.
     
  7. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    @William_Navidson, not to get into a logical debate semantics argument, but the main part of a strawman argument that seems missing in the way you are using the word is that the strawman argument is not just faux, but it is also set up to appear to be what the other party is arguing while being easier to refute. IOW, it appears to be the same argument being made by the other party, but it is not.
     
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  8. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (2,157) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    I haven't had enough beers yet today to engage in your lunacy. I am glad that Founders, as well as Mr. Evans, came to a reasonable solution, to the benefit of both parties. Cheers.
     
  9. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Initiate (161) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    That’s correct, and again I’m not sure what your confusion stems from. I was alleging that some commenters will accuse “Founders boycotters” of saying that they were 100% sure that racial discrimination had occurred. This is a strawman. I’m sorry if that was not clear in my comment.....
     
  10. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Initiate (161) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Feel free to stop by later after you’ve had a few drinks and get a hankering to once again minimize allegations of civil rights violations made against a corporation.
     
  11. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (2,157) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    If that's how you view it, I don't have any inclination to attempt to change your viewpoint. I love you. - Hunter
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,185) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I am very happy to read that Founders Brewing Co. and Tracy Evans came to a mutually agreed and acceptable settlement for both parties.

    Tracy in his statement mentioned: “As there are still people working for Founders that I still love very dearly, I hope for nothing but the best for Founders in the future.” I think it is very magnanimous of Tracy to hope that the people working at Founders are not negatively impacted.

    Hopefully we will soon read that the Founders people employed in Detroit are able to continue to work.

    Cheers!
     
  13. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Actually, your example of a strawman IS ITSELF a strawman (at least as it may apply to me). What I said was I was not going to assert they were guilty of racial discrimination without more facts. So, saying what you attribute to "some commenters" and arguing against that is a strawman argument.

    Anyhow, I now understand what you were trying to say...
     
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  14. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,970) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    We still don't know what actually happened in regards to Tracy's termination and we never will. Did he get what he deserved or did he rake Founders across the coals? Don't know.

    I do know that he came out of this with money and Founders lost a shit ton of money, much more so from lost accounts and angry customers than the settlement.

    So I stand by my statement that regardless of guilt or innocence, Founders publicly handled this in the worst way possible. That said, they have suffered for it, and claim they will be better. Hopefully they have learned from this, and my personal boycott will not be permanent as people's jobs are at stake. Mostly innocent people.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,185) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I believe that it is safe to say that Founders could have done a better job here. Having stated that, it is very difficult to quickly rectify things once the angry mob is in full berserk.
    I think that both Tracy Evans and the folks who work at Founders would applaud you here.

    Cheers!
     
  16. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Defender (689) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    I love to see differences settled through cash payouts where no one did anything wrong- kind of like how Matt Lauer hasn't raped anybody and NBC was really good at giving financial assistance to their female employees who worked with him....
     
  17. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Initiate (161) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    No, my example is not a strawman. Some commenters did in fact say that "Founders boycotters" were positive that discrimination had occurred. That's why I said "some commenters said..." not "MNAle said..." I have no clue what you specifically argued in the last thread, and I wasn't singling you out. Did you feel specifically victimized or something? I have no clue why you think I was.

    And even if that were the case and I was making up what other commenters said, I'm glad you now understand that my use of "strawman" initially was completely correct, right?... thanks for taking us down this line of convo lol.
     
  18. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Jeez, last word wizard? And, BTW, your response above to @TheIPAHunter ("get a hankering to once again minimize allegations of civil rights violations made against a corporation") is also a strawman. Accusing me of being victimized is another, even though cleverly worded to make it appear to not be an actual accusation.

    And, no, I don't agree your use was correct. I said I understood what you were saying.

    Keep going... it's entertaining if nothing else.
     
  19. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,970) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    OMG, stop the semantics argument
     
  20. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Initiate (161) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I was hoping you could address some of the points I brought up in my comment if you have a chance...

    Again no, my example is not a strawman. Some commenters did in fact say that "Founders boycotters" were positive that discrimination had occurred. That's why I said "some commenters said..." not "MNAle said..." I have no clue what you specifically argued in the last thread, and I wasn't singling you out. Did you feel specifically victimized or something? I have no clue why you think I was.

    And even if that were the case and I was making up what other commenters said, I'm glad you now understand that my use of "strawman" initially was completely correct, right?... thanks for taking us down this line of convo lol.
     
  21. keithmurray

    keithmurray Meyvn (1,341) Oct 7, 2009 Connecticut

    Its a shame people wont take the opportunity to learn. Its going to be rinse wash repeat, unfortunately.
     
    BuffaloBill12 likes this.
  22. afterexile

    afterexile Initiate (126) Nov 29, 2005 Pennsylvania

    LOL Good stuff here even with the case now settled. :slight_smile:
     
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  23. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    With a special thanks to our faithful Mods for improving my OP and thread title!
     
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  24. gatornation

    gatornation Poo-Bah (5,178) Apr 18, 2007 Minnesota
    Trader

    @MNAle
     
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  25. afterexile

    afterexile Initiate (126) Nov 29, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Very true as far as not ever knowing what really happened. and even if it did go to court people would wonder if the right side prevailed. Your last sentiment is something I think and hope we all can agree on. That a lot of "innocent people's jobs" are at stake. & hopefully that damage will be minimal.
     
    bsp77 likes this.
  26. drinkin-beeers

    drinkin-beeers Disciple (365) Jan 29, 2014 Montana

    Wouldn’t be a BeerAdvocate thread if it’s not derailed on the first page and turned into a something completely different.
    #Strawman
     
  27. Spaten454

    Spaten454 Disciple (367) Aug 23, 2012 Texas
    Trader

    Whew, I can finally rest and relax now that it's settled.
     
  28. CSpoons

    CSpoons Initiate (158) Nov 13, 2012 Maryland

    Good for both parties I guess. I was looking forward to hearing about this documented evidence that Founders claimed they had that would unravel Evans' case though
     
  29. tzieser

    tzieser Meyvn (1,089) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey
    Trader

    Wake me up for the next debacle. That was some fun reading.:popcorn::popcorn:
     
  30. BuffaloBill12

    BuffaloBill12 Devotee (408) Oct 21, 2011 Illinois
    Society Trader

    They'll probably claim it's on a server in Ukraine.
     
    CSpoons likes this.
  31. micada

    micada Aspirant (259) Jul 13, 2015 New York
    Trader

    Awwww, how sweet. Money made the racism feel all better.

    Those crying boycotters better still boycott so I can scoop up more of the CBS and Imperial Stout for myself. Don’t give up now, or else the world will view you as weak-willed, attention-deficited dimwits!
     
  32. micada

    micada Aspirant (259) Jul 13, 2015 New York
    Trader

    I already dislike wheat beer, so if Founders is going to start adding straw, I’m boycotting so f’ing hard.
     
  33. micada

    micada Aspirant (259) Jul 13, 2015 New York
    Trader

    “Full berserk.” Im totally using that one all over the place.
     
  34. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Even barley straw?
     
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  35. micada

    micada Aspirant (259) Jul 13, 2015 New York
    Trader

    Barley straw is fine. It’s those “other” straws that are no good. I wouldn’t want to identify which straw is barley or which straw is one of the other kind just by looking at them. I just know the other straws are bad.
     
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  36. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,899) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Founders should have done this months and months ago.
     
  37. micada

    micada Aspirant (259) Jul 13, 2015 New York
    Trader

    After re-reading Mr. T’s statement, I wanted to vomit: It reads like fake magnanimity brought on by a newly fattened bank account.

    I think I’ll crack a Founders anything right now.
     
  38. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,970) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    Cool story, bro
     
  39. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,377) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

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  40. mogulskier

    mogulskier Initiate (63) Feb 3, 2019 California

    Yep, couldn't agree more.