Founders Brewing manager claims he didn't know Black employee is Black

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by neenerzig, Oct 21, 2019.

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  1. neenerzig

    neenerzig Poo-Bah (2,185) Feb 15, 2006 Ohio

    https://m.metrotimes.com/table-and-...-claims-he-didnt-know-black-employee-is-black

    I just saw this posted by a friend somewhere else not on BA. This really doesn’t bode well for Founders. These issues could have been effectively addressed before they became public.

    Statement from Founders: https://foundersbrewing.com/latest-news/2019/statement-regarding-metro-times-article/

    Related:
     
  2. evilcatfish

    evilcatfish Defender (605) May 11, 2012 Missouri
    Trader

    There was all ready a big thread here on this matter, it may have been locked but not sure
     
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  3. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Meyvn (1,022) Nov 23, 2017 California
    Society Trader

    I know we're supposed to be "color-blind" when it comes to race, but I'm not sure that's how you do it. Feel sorry for folks who have to work with him and ask him a damn question.
     
  4. ypsifly

    ypsifly Meyvn (1,067) Sep 22, 2004 Michigan

    I'm sure it will all blow over in time for the local idiots on FB to post pics of their KBS Espresso hauls. This is a litmus test for the community and I'm convinced craft nerds in the Detroit area could care less. "We just want our walez bro" is still the mentality around here.
     
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  5. Jangoon24

    Jangoon24 Disciple (306) Jul 25, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    That transcript is infuriating. The blatant, and smug, ignorance is just appalling to me.
     
  6. NextBestThing

    NextBestThing Aspirant (215) Apr 5, 2008 New York

    100% expected this to be about a sessionable version of Double Trouble.
     
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  7. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    How did this transcript become public?

    Sounds like somebody's attorney is trying to work public opinion.
     
  8. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,970) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    WTF? Does he think he will get in trouble for simply saying he is black?

    It drives me insane when people think they are being PC by NOT stating race. Like when there are 10 guys in a room, 9 are white and 1 is black, and then you ask a friend which one is Alex? And your friend goes he is the guy with the blue shirt and the white sneakers. And then after a few rounds of asking questions because it isn't obvious, I go "is Alex the black guy? Why didn't you say that?" And then he mumbles, "I didn't think it was okay to say the black guy". Seriously, it is okay to notice someone is a certain race; just don't treat them differently and expect certain stereotypes. Ugh. Rant over.
     
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  9. ypsifly

    ypsifly Meyvn (1,067) Sep 22, 2004 Michigan


    This sounds to me like someone who was coached to avoid a question rather than someone trying to be PC. It sounds more like subterfuge than walking on eggshells.
     
  10. bsp77

    bsp77 Poo-Bah (1,970) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota

    But I really am surprised at this level of racism going on. I hope Founders steps up, admits it has no place in their company, and takes action against current employees, and sets up stronger rules and training for the future. (such as what Starbucks and others did)

    If they sweep it aside and simply fight the lawsuit, I will lose respect for Founders, and they will likely lose my share of wallet too.
     
  11. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Defender (605) Mar 28, 2009 California

    Dominic Ryan Is an idiot.
     
  12. ypsifly

    ypsifly Meyvn (1,067) Sep 22, 2004 Michigan

    From Detroit Area Craft Beer Enthusiasts on FB:

    "They make great beer, so I’ll keep drinking it.. This guy is being intentionally difficult though..."

    Too many people hold this mentality in my area for me to feel good about my local scene right now.
     
  13. Chuckdiesel24

    Chuckdiesel24 Meyvn (1,157) Jul 6, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    Agree with your point, but to be clear this is not ignorance, it's far more blatant than that.
     
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  14. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,997) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

  15. evilcatfish

    evilcatfish Defender (605) May 11, 2012 Missouri
    Trader

  16. JediMasterLenin

    JediMasterLenin Initiate (189) Dec 25, 2018 District of Columbia

    Been waiting for an update on this for a while. Sounds like Founders' "Official response" will be coming out soon.
     
  17. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (2,157) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    I'm disgusted by what happened, I really am, but it's not going to stop people from drinking their beer.
     
  18. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (10,812) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    This is just an aside to what's going on here, but I honestly had no idea that "The Rock" (Dwayne Johnson) and "Slash" were black until someone told me.
     
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  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,356) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Trader

    Better go xSTRAIGHTEDGEx. I heard Detroit courage crew is solid.
     
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  20. neenerzig

    neenerzig Poo-Bah (2,185) Feb 15, 2006 Ohio

    It sounds like Evans was trying to respond to the racism he is concerned about the proper way within the company structure by filing formal complaints, and that this is apparently why he was fired and then decided to go public about his experiences working at Founders. Can’t blame him one bit. If you fire someone who is trying to do the right thing do wrongdoing can be properly responded to, you deserve to have the public scrutinize you. If that Ryan guy is still employed there after Evans was fired, that alone really tells me all I need to know.
     
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  21. lester619

    lester619 Devotee (470) Apr 17, 2009 Wisconsin

    That exchange was hilarious.
    "Did you know he was African American?"
    "What do you mean by that?"
    Obviously if the N word was thrown around and things of that nature it's completely unacceptable. But a high ranking member of an organization not knowing a certain employee is black because they haven't met them in person is not necessarily terrible. The goal should be for no one to care one way or the other.
     
  22. Justonemore91

    Justonemore91 Initiate (182) Nov 24, 2018 New York
    Trader

    Absolutely disgusted by this. I really hope this blows up for founders. They should be exposed for what they really are. Comping to ignorance will not make this go away
     
  23. Goebs80

    Goebs80 Initiate (22) Aug 13, 2019 Illinois

    But they had met before.
     
  24. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (378) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

    I'm sure Founder's attorney told him to be clear that he didn't care about any employee's race
    But isn't that the whole point? Aren't we supposed to take no notice of a person's race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual preference?

    During Obama's first campaign many African-Americans claimed he wasn't “really black” because of his mixed race parentage and upper class background, Mindy Kaling's brother (dark skinned Indian) credits being admitted to medical school by claiming to be black, in my grandparents' day, and earlier, it wasn't uncommon for light skinned blacks to move to a new city and pass for white, I was in the army with a fair-haired blue-eyed guy who's parents had fled Cuba, heck, one of the candidates for President claimed to be Native American.

    Yeah, we don't need to wait until the trial is over
    [​IMG]
     
    #24 officerbill, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  25. Jangoon24

    Jangoon24 Disciple (306) Jul 25, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    He had already met him in person though. He said that they had mutual friends, and had met him a few times, even before working at Founders.
     
  26. lester619

    lester619 Devotee (470) Apr 17, 2009 Wisconsin

    So the hell didn't he know he was black? I'm going to have to read that thing again.
     
  27. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    I'd be wiser to wait for all the facts rather than reading again a one-sided probable cherry-picked leak.
     
  28. gclaw4444

    gclaw4444 Initiate (86) Jul 30, 2015 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Looks like Founders is digging there heels in deeper and are trying to deny everything instead of admitting to their issues, but that's not a surprise.
     
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  29. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (378) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

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  30. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Meyvn (1,022) Nov 23, 2017 California
    Society Trader

    That didn't read so great. The paragraph on language for instance, they start off by stating they have no tolerance for the n-word then proceeded the rest of the paragraph explaining how they tolerated it. They even explain how the victim had a hand in adjudicating the issue so obviously they don't have concrete policies.
     
  31. lester619

    lester619 Devotee (470) Apr 17, 2009 Wisconsin

    I also read most of it at a red light so I may have missed some of the nuisances.
     
  32. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,605) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Naughty, naughty! :wink:
     
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  33. ohiobeer29

    ohiobeer29 Defender (639) Feb 2, 2013 Ohio

    Agree they could have done like dark horse and handled it immediately and been done with it.
     
  34. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (378) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

    They didn't tolerate it, disciplinary action was taken
    The policy is probably some HR/EEOC approved “no offensive language” boilerplate and it sounds like the offended party was satisfied.
     
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  35. dcotom

    dcotom Poo-Bah (2,292) Aug 4, 2014 Iowa
    Society Trader

    To me, this is the most interesting in this thread so far. As always, YMMV.
     
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  36. ypsifly

    ypsifly Meyvn (1,067) Sep 22, 2004 Michigan

    In his defense, he didn't know what color the light was at the time.......too soon?
     
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  37. CbusBrews13

    CbusBrews13 Initiate (43) Apr 6, 2017 Ohio

    That’s not really the point, no. We should be treating people equally regardless of race, ethnicity, etc.

    That doesn’t mean erasing someone’s race or identity. “Colorblind” isn’t a thing. We see color. Children understand that people are a different color. Ignoring someone’s color, or in this case, being willfully obtuse about someone’s race, doesn’t help solve the issue. The vast majority of people have some implicit biases that no amount of insisting one “doesn’t see color” will overcome and in fact, makes it worse.

    It’s not a matter of whether or not you “see” color (you do), it’s how you treat the person when they aren’t the same color as you.
     
    #37 CbusBrews13, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  38. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Defender (689) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    Wow. I'm glad that transcript came to light. That defense is inexcusable To play dumb and stonewall the truth is never acceptable. What are they scared of transparency for if they aren't guilty? I'm judging Founders guilty in this case and will be avoiding them going forth. Very sad. I won't support a company whose workers are so dumb that they don't know what black is- just think how poor the quality of the beer must be if the workers are this stupid. Nice work on ruining the brand Founders.....
     
  39. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (378) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

    Yep, ignoring (being blind to) the color of their skin and treating each person equally.
    Of course you see the color of skin, but unless you're giving a physical description, it shouldn't matter.

    Did you bother to read Founder's statement regarding this?
    https://foundersbrewing.com/latest-news/2019/statement-regarding-metro-times-article/
    Emphasis mine
     
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  40. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Defender (689) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    Did Founders fire the guy in the deposition? If so, I'm cool with that. If Founders has an employee on record who does not know what black is and he is still working for Founders I can't spend money on a place that would employee a guy with a less than a kindergarten education. I'm sorry, but if the employee is that dumb, what does it say about the bar for employment at Founders and god forbid the quality of the beer if you have idiots running the place?

    I would love to be a fly in the wall on that first day the Director of Diversity and Inclusion starts "Today we are going to discuss the expectation for how to treat a person of color or another race at Founders. Does anyone have any questions?" "Ugh, What's a person of color and I don't want to run in a race."
     
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