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Fresh Hop Party-Gyle?!!?!!1!!

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by AlCaponeJunior, Sep 13, 2013.

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  1. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,077) May 21, 2010 Texas

    [ALERT] this post may contain long/tiring day + 3rd/4th homebrew ramblings. :rolling_eyes:

    Well, I got my fresh hops. Plentifully, in fact. More than I really wanted, but given the choices, how could I NOT go with what I got? They were selling them in 8 oz packs, and had cascade, simcoe, and citra, so I got one of each! Gonna brew tomorrow morning, so trying to finalize a process and recipe, but mostly the process. I have multiple schools of thought, and haven't really figured out which way is best yet...

    I don't want to brew two full batches, which a pound and a half of fresh hops would certainly work for, but then I of course need to brew more than my usual five gallons, so I thought perhaps something along the lines of a party-gyle would be in order here.

    The thing is, I have a ten gallon fermentation bucket (actual volume more like 14 gallons, so it's meant for ten gallons of finished beer). I also have a second freezer/controller setup specifically for use with this bucket. So I thought why not just make something along the lines of a partigyle, but put it all in one bucket?

    So I was thinking of just using all golden promise and making it a fresh hop/GP smash. The thing is, I've heard lots of ranting and raving about how great GP is, and I already have enough for one 5 gallon batch, so this kinda falls in place naturally. However, I haven't actually tried this grain myself, so I'm not exactly sure what to expect. And it's not in beersmith either, not that there's a whole lot that could tell me about it anyway. I'm estimating the recipe using maris otter. What can I expect from GP?

    Now I want the hops to shine here, and don't want to dry it out with sugar or thicken it up with crystal, nor blast it with anything but the plentiful fresh hops that I have acquired. I just want straight up fresh hops hoppy goodness. Any pellet or leaf hops added will be minimal. But I don't quite know where exactly my personal "optimal" range is on this one either. Not only that, but given the (perhaps controversial) "plan" I have formulated here, anything resembling "numbers" on this one are likely to have a large variance, % coefficient of variation, standard error, standard deviation, P value, Z value, Q value, PBJ value, and B value (the B stands for beer). :rolling_eyes:

    I would have to essentially brew two batches in parallel, starting with five gallons worth of grain, mashing, sparging, then while boiling and cooling the first half, have the second half of the batch mashing. So it's not exactly a party-gyle, and not exactly a double batch day either, because ultimately it's all going into one bucket, and the recipes would be essentially the same.

    That's plan A. Plan B is actually probably the more optimal plan, but the less likely to actually occur plan, which is why it's plan B. :rolling_eyes:

    Plan B would be to bottle the batch of oatmeal stout that's already in there, and just make it a gigantic double brew day, making two five gallon batches, and splitting up the fresh hops half and half, 12 oz per batch.

    But then I'd have to bottle one and brew two batches in a day, not to mention having to make a decision (gasp!) on how to split up my hops, and possibly even decide on possible different base malts, and ....................... pfffffffffffffffttt. I'm damn tired from school this week. Really I wish the hops had come in either last week or next week!! :angry:

    I assume I need to keep them in the fridge overnight?

    So anyway, I have no idea what I'm going to do tomorrow. But something will be done, and those beautiful hops will be made into beer tomorrow.

    Randoms extraneous musings:
    • I am aware there will be a lot of wort loss to hops, and plan to account for this by using a little extra grain/water, and possibly some mo too
    • IF I were to go the full monty route, how should I split the hops? Should I split the grains into two different smashes? Should I buy that beachfront property in Arizona? So many decisions, so little time... :rolling_eyes:
    • I'm not just a little pissed the fuck off at microsoft again today, this time for their pile of garbage ms word. Should I track down a microsoft programmer and beat them to a bloody pulp with a copy of MS Word that's installed on a machine that runs windows 7? :angry:
    • how do fresh citra, cascade, and simcoe compare with pellets, and is there some matrix I can solve that optimizes the possible combinations of usages of three hops and one grain, or two hops and two grains, to make the perfect fresh hop ale or pair of pales? (lol, I'm taking linear algebra now, no calculus this time around). :rolling_eyes:
    • Don't wait to reply, because tomorrow come around ten-ish, I'm out the door, and whatever happens is going to happen, so any replies after that will probably be in retrospect. :astonished:
  2. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I haven't read more than the first paragraph of your post yet, but 24oz of wet hops is about the equivalent of 5-6oz of regular finishing hops. That sounds about right for a 5 gallon batch of hoppy IPA to me. Doesn't sound like nearly enough to partigyle two batches with, assuming you wanted to make two hoppy batches of beer. I think that's a relatively safe assumption, as it's kind of a waste to make a fresh hop beer if you don't plan on making it hop forward.
  3. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Moderator (1,092) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Just drop all 3 into a 5 gallon batch of GP to make an IPA with it. Bitter w/ Warrior/Magnum. I did 1# Citra and 1# Simcoe in 5 gallons and it was awesome. 3/4# of wet hops in a 5 gallon batch isn't enough (trust me, I under shot last year on 3 batches).
    barfdiggs and AlCaponeJunior like this.
  4. MrOH

    MrOH Defender (674) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Maybe do SMaS(ix or maybe even)H brew on it. GP all the way to 1.070, mashed @ 148F for 90minutes. Bitter with something clean , flavor addition of something that will go with your fresh hops @10mins, half of your fresh stuff at FO, steep/whirlpool for 20mins, cool to 170F drop in the other half of the fresh stuff and do another steep/whirlpool, and then dry hop with something else you've got on hand that would work.

    It will still be a SMaSH so long as you use six or seven varieties.
  5. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,077) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Hmmm... all the fresh hops at flameout/steep? That could be arranged.

    I was thinking (while I was sleeping, lol), that perhaps a single beer of about 6.5-7.0 gallons might also work. If I use my slightly larger boil kettle I can probably have close to 7.5 gallons of boiling wort. If I go easy on the 60 minute addition boil-overs will not be a big concern (maybe magnum leaf?). I could top off with a little extra sparge as boil off occurs. Then I could blast the living hell out of a single beer with all those fresh hops. This seems to be a better solution than a pure ten gallon batch, and better than two fivers, which would allow me to both bottle and brew in a reasonable length brewday, and I wouldn't have the possibility of under-fresh-hopping as I might with ten gallons.

    That is probably what I'm going to do. I guess I need to get some breakfast in me and figure this out on beersmith. Prolly not leaving for another hour and 45 minutes or so, any other suggestions please do elaborate in great detail.
  6. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,077) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Yeah so I ordered some grain, gonna use 17 lbs of GP for a 7 gallon fresh hop beer. Since I'll have to pull off a little sparging/mashing magic (I only have a five gallon mash tun for today), we'll see what the OG turns out to be. Prolly around 1.060 tho.

    No idea what the IBUs will be, won't even bother to try to calculate it. I'll add a small amount of pellet hops at 60 to ensure adequate overall bitterness, and be careful to guard against boil overs. All the fresh hops will go in at flameout and hopstand. Will dry hop with [something]. Overall time in fermenter will be kept low, three weeks max total, to maximize the fresh hop goodness.
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,067) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    “Will dry hop with [something].” Hmmm, are you sure you want to do that?

    I have my Harvest Ale fermenting right now and I have purposefully decided to not add any dry hops; I want the flavor/aroma of the wet hops to ‘shine’.

  8. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,077) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Well, I have a couple weeks to decide, but this may well be the decision. I'm not dead set on dry hopping, but it seemed like maybe I should? Don't really know. Let me know how yours comes out.

    heading out to brew now...
  9. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Moderator (1,092) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    When I did a # each of Citra and Simcoe in my 5 gallon batch, I bottled it in day 7, no DH, didn't need it. Worked out great.
  10. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I'd either split the fresh hops into 3rds and use the first third at flameout, second third dry hopping in primary, and last third dry hopping in secondary, or I'd add half of the dry hops at flameout and the other half as a dry hopping (either in primary or secondary).
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,067) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Al, there was an article in a recent issue of BYO entitled Field to Glass, Brewing with Fresh Hops.

    In that article it is stated to not dry hop with wet hops. Vaughn Stewart (Project Development Manager of Northern Brewer) and Duke Geren (of FH Steinbart Co.) are quoted:

    Stewart and Geren recommend adding the hops the last 10 to 20 minutes of the boil for the maximum amount of aroma retention, but neither say it’s wise to dry hop beers with wet hops because of the risk of contamination.

    “Better still, a ‘hot stand’ or ‘hop stand’ can be conducted, where the heat to the boil kettle is turned off, the fresh hops added, and the lid is replaced on the kettle,” Stewart said.

    “The hops stay in the just below boiling wort for 30 to 60 minutes. It is believed that this temperature extracts rich volatiles more thoroughly ….”

    Beerontwowheels likes this.
  12. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,077) May 21, 2010 Texas

    What I wound up doing was adding one eight oz package at about three minutes, then the rest at flameout, let stand about two minutes while I got the hose running, cooled to 170, stayed there for 25 minutes, then cooled to pitching temp. I wound up with about the usual amount of beer, even tho I started with quite a bit more malt and wort. They did absorb a lot. But the process seemed go go smoothly enough, and I have high hopes for the beer.

    I bittered with 21g belma at 60. Probably won't dry hop now.

    Also bottled my oatmeal stout, it was about good enough to drink it uncarbonated. That one is going to come out really good I think!
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,067) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Did you reach your target OG?

  14. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,077) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Well, since I didn't really know what my target OG actually was, I'll say "yes." :grinning:

    1.062 between the first mash/sparge and the second, seemed reasonable enough. To be honest, I didn't check it again after that. Timothy Leary was inside my head. Timothy Leary. :astonished:
  15. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,077) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Reporting back on this one: just popped a test bottle.

    NOT dry hopped, BTW.

    Left in primary longer than I wanted, almost four weeks (planned on 3).

    Aroma: smells just like the fresh hops did, even maintains that kinda green, grassy aroma.

    Flavor: fucking awesome, just fucking awesome man! Honestly I couldn't be more pleased with the taste. Great hoppiness, a nice green leafiness (I am fond of that "green" taste), overall the GP seems to have done it well too.

    Carbonation: good, will be best in about 4-5 days.

    How pleased am I? Considering it was $41.50 worth of hops, I'm happier than shit!!!! :grinning:

    I will be dropping one off to the guy at Gabriel's who let me know they were getting fresh hops in.
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