Germany German beers' IBUs

Discussion in 'Europe' started by herrburgess, Mar 29, 2013.

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  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    Found this chart of the IBUs for the most popular German beers (scroll down a bit to find it): http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&tid=9614. Thought a few things were interesting: (1) Uerige has the highest in all of its forms; (3) Schlenkerla is, by German standards, pretty hoppy; (3) there are some nice beers -- that are also available in the U.S. in pretty good condition (esp. when canned) -- such as Koenig Pils, Bitburger, and Weihenstephaner Pils that are all still 30+ IBUs. Anyone else find anything surprising here?
     
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  2. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (292) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Judging by the inclusion of Bit Sun, I am going to guess that this is from (ballpark) 2005-2006.

    For me the most shocking is the higher values for a lot of the pilsners that are (generally) considered hoppier. Seeing that Bit is showing one of the highest values (38), I tend to wonder 1) how accurate is the list and if it is accurate 2) what has happened since to this beer.

    While living in Germany I always preferred Flensburger, which is tastes like 38 IBUs.

    Haven't had a Sticke in many years, can't really remember the beer anyway...one of those nights in the Altstadt...
     
  3. einhorn

    einhorn Aspirant (292) Nov 3, 2005 California
    Beer Trader

    Just before closing the page I saw that Guiness is listed at 45 IBUs - really?
     
  4. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    Saw that, too. I'm thinking that they had the Export Stout (but I don't want to open up that debate here if possible).
     
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  5. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,254) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Jever at 35 IBUs. Sigh.
     
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  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,782) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    +1 to that sigh. :(
     
  7. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,254) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    It was 48 or 50 in the first Michael Jackson book, then 44, now 35. Last I was in Germany, I knew it was not as bitter are 98-99, and now some numbers to go with it.
     
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  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    It seems as if Jever has been particularly "hit hard" in this area. It was always head-and-shoulders above any pils I ever tasted over there in terms of bitterness, and now it's on a level with Radeberger and Koenig...and even less bitter than Flensburger. Actually, however, I'm more surprised that those beers have remained at those IBU levels. Wonder what the deal is with Jever? It could well be that they amped things down to appeal to a wider audience.

    EDIT: I have only seen it at 45 IBUs in Michael Jackson's book(s). Can you provide source material for the 48-50 claim?
     
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,254) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    No, someone had said that some time back, and one of the local pros that studied in Germany said it was 50 when he was there 20+ years ago. Isn't Jever owned by one of the bigger firms now?

    Edit - the interweb says Jever is part of Oetker Group, which might explain it.
     
  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    Yea, it seems like the ones bought by Oetker have suffered the most. Not surprising.
     
  11. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,194) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Interesting find about Jever. I had never had it until 2-3 years ago and I didn't find it to be much (any?) hoppier than the other northern pilsners I'd had. It was still good, but a lot of people had said it was the inspiration for American beers like Prima Pils, and it definitely didn't seem that hoppy to me.
    Never had any fresh Uerige, but those numbers also surprised me a little. The bottled versions of the doppelsticke I've had were nearly as sweet as a doppelbock or English barleywine. I'm guessing they probably weren't taproom fresh.
     
  12. YamBag

    YamBag Initiate (179) Feb 2, 2007 Pennsylvania

     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,782) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    Lots of interesting discussion about Prima Pils. In my opinion, Prima Pils is indeed hopped at a level consistent with Northern German style Pilsners. In the not too distant past (30-40 years ago) Pilsners in Germany (including Southern Germany) were hopped at a higher level than they are today. The two owners of Victory (Ron Barchet and Bill Covaleski) both trained in beer making in Germany prior to opening Victory Brewing in 1996. The inspiration for their beer Prima Pils was from Waldhaus Pils in Southern Germany:

    “Owner Ron Barchet began the evening from the head table presenting the history of Victory’s brewing with a visual overhead slideshow. The brewery’s roots can be traced back to Barchet’s time spent in the Tettnang region working and learning about German beer brewing. In fact, it was a taste of Waldhaus Pils that first led him down the road of exploration and yearning to know more about the process of brewing what became his favorite beer.”

    http://newhomebrew.com/blog/2012/04/12/the-roots-of-german-beer-at-victory-brewing-company-in-pennsylvania/

    Cheers!
     
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  14. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    That would make much more sense to me, because I, for one, see/taste very little similarity between Jever (either of old or new) and Prima.
     
  15. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

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  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (2,782) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Supporter

    In a past thread I asked if anybody has tried Waldhaus Ohne Filter Extra Herb beer so I guess I will ask again: has anybody tried this beer? If so, what do you think of this beer?

    Cheers!
     
  17. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    I, personally, had never heard of Waldhaus before reading the Victory info. Never tried any of their beers.
     
  18. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,254) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    "The Famously bitter Jever Pilsner ****... Since the brewery was acquired by the national group Brau und Brunnen, Jever Pilsner has seemed to diminish slightly in character, but its dryness still makes for a wonderfull aperitif."

    From Michael Jackson's Pocket Guide, 1997.

    I had a lot of Jever in 98 and 99, and think it has gone downhill.
     
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  19. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,194) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    A lot can change in 15 years. I've met people that swear Salvator was as good as Celebrator, Andechser, Korbinian, and the like back in the 90's.
    Over here in the States, we see pretty extreme examples of this with differing ABV's, hop/grain bills, etc. pretty often - and not just the smaller breweries either. Even hugely successful beers like Fat Tire have changed dramatically in 15 years...and they're still independent.
    I don't think it's too big of a stretch that they changed the beer.
    I can't recall where I heard this, but I think there was a big stink when Augustiner admitted that they were going to lager their helles for 5 weeks instead of 6.
     
  20. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    Speaking of Jever, I don't know if JackHorzempa or hopfenunmaltz remember the Coversation we had from May 16, 2012 to the end of that month. Here's a cut and paste job of the parts relating to Jever we discussed.



    That's all folks.
     
  21. boddhitree

    boddhitree Devotee (482) Apr 13, 2008 Germany

    We discussed this beer awhile ago on this forum. I never got to try it though I'd really love to try it.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  22. patto1ro

    patto1ro Defender (617) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Subscriber

    Salvator has turned to absolute shit. It used to be a much better beer: darker, not as stickily sweet.
     
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  23. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Def agree. In the early 90s it was superb. Not at all now.
     
  24. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    I had it 'accidentily' blind last year and couldn't believe it was the same beer. A disgrace for one of the most iconic beers ever produced.

    But at least Aventinus is still pretty decent. And I noticed its IBU count was the lowest on the list to.
     
  25. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Not hopped up and still good? The hell you say! :wink:
     
  26. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    What conclusions are you drawing there?
     
  27. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    C'mon Ron, Beck's is shit. St. Pauli is (basically) shit. Boddington's is shit. Salvator may not be what it was, but I don't believe it's become "shit"... though there's still time.
     
  28. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    Anyone tried this one from Waldhaus? (Told ya to be careful what you wish for :wink:)

    [​IMG]
     
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  29. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Not so much a conclusion but a reminder that although I find myself opting for more and more three digit IBU beers, it is more than possible to brew world class beer with only a sprinkling of hops.
     
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  30. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Might'a been a tad more classy if they'd opted for Bloody Hell. :rolling_eyes:
     
  31. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,005) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    To make matters worse, they claim that it's a "Helles from the village of Fucking, Austria" (a town that does actually exist).
     
  32. patto1ro

    patto1ro Defender (617) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Subscriber

    Me and Sebastian (of Freigeist) hope to put that right. We're going to brew a late-19th century style Salvator. Not sure if we'll manage to keep the FG high enough to be properly authentic.
     
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  33. patto1ro

    patto1ro Defender (617) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Subscriber

    It's a compartive thing. Compared to what it once was, it's now shit.
     
  34. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Established in June of 1945 by the U.S. 2d Armored Division? :rolling_eyes:

    Hey Joe, look -- we're in F***ing Austria!
     
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  35. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    I gauge "shit" by whether or not I'll accept a beer when offered, I've readily turned down a wide range of swill beer over the years.

    So, If I meet you in Munich and buy you a half liter you'll turn me down?
     
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  36. patto1ro

    patto1ro Defender (617) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Subscriber

    I drank two 25cl glasses of the stuff last Friday. Bought and paid for by me. So of course I'd let you buy me a half litre. But should we be in Munich, I'd hope we'd be somewhere with Bayerischer Anstich*.

    Not "absolute shit" or "the worst shit ever" just shit compared to what it was within my beer memory. I didn't say I wouldn't drink it.

    * beer served by gravity.
     
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  37. Starkbier

    Starkbier Initiate (165) Sep 19, 2002 Maryland

    OK, lets correct a few items here.

    Ron did apprentice work at DeGroens (Theo) Baltimore Brewing Co in 89/90 prior to heading over to study at Weihenstephan. He never worked at DuClaw, nor did Bill. When Ron returned to the states, he became brewmaster at Dominion prior to starting Victory with Bill in 95/96.

    Ron and I did an epic 5 week tour around Germany, Belgium, Netherlands and Czech rep in spring of 91. While we were aware of Jever, the amazing pine/hoppy aromas of Waldhaus Pils did impress greatly. Note by this time we were also well aware of Theo DeGroens own very hoppy Pils from the BBC, but that brew used Clusters in the bittering hops.

    Up the road a bit from Waldhaus in and around Karlsruhe was a revolutionary Hausbrauerei called Vogel and they made and still make a stupendous unfiltered kellerpils. I would venture that between the aroma of the Waldhaus and the overall character and drinkability of the Vogel and BBC versions is where our Prima was born.

    One also needs to acknowledge the great beers of Franconia, in particular the great Herren Pils from Keessmann.

    Prost!

    Jim
     
  38. Starkbier

    Starkbier Initiate (165) Sep 19, 2002 Maryland

    also, the linkage to Parkbrau was post BBC - Theo DeGroen went back there after he sold BBC.
     
  39. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    There it is folks! I got Ron to say he'd drink sh.... :wink: Just kidding around, of course.

    And if we were in Munich I'd probably want to hit the Anstich pours as well as any others (of course, we'd catch a train to Regensburg the next day...)
     
  40. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,869) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Oh -- most of us are quite familiar with, and respect, Ron and his great reputation, Jim -- we just like to bicker as a big happy family might. :)

    Been too long since I had a Keesmann.
     
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