German roggenbier and Southern England brown ale

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by RochefortChris, Jan 27, 2013.

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  1. RochefortChris

    RochefortChris Meyvn (1,027) Oct 2, 2012 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Does anyone know if an American brewery has re-created an authentic version these styles? I know it is nearly impossible to find an import version of these styles but I would really love to try them.
  2. MattSweatshirt

    MattSweatshirt Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2011 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Live Oak in Texas does a seasonal roggenbier.
  3. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Meyvn (1,048) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania

    What's the difference between a Southern brown & a dark mild?
  4. RochefortChris

    RochefortChris Meyvn (1,027) Oct 2, 2012 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    A Southern English brown is an "official" BJCP style. All it says is it's a bit sweeter and lower in alcohol than a northern England brown ale like a Hobgoblin.
  5. HumanParaquat

    HumanParaquat Devotee (426) Jun 23, 2011 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    The Bier Brewery in Indianapolis makes a really nice Roggenbier, but I can't speak to how truly authentic it is.
  6. thecheapies

    thecheapies Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Abita Turbodog is a Southern English Brown Ale
  7. mountsnow1010

    mountsnow1010 Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2009 Vermont

    Yeah, but it's Abita...
  8. Immortale25

    Immortale25 Poo-Bah (3,023) May 13, 2011 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Haha. I like Turbodog but yeah, it's Abita.
    Why does BA list Hobgoblin as an ESB?
    mountsnow1010 likes this.
  9. chinabeergeek

    chinabeergeek Meyvn (1,272) Aug 10, 2007 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    because most beer entries on this site are created by users. the "style" assigned to it is up to the whim of that user. subsequent requests to "report an update" can be made, but ultimately, this site and the BJCP are NOT the be-all and end-all of what constitutes actual beer styles in the world.
    StJamesGate likes this.
  10. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Aspirant (244) Sep 21, 2012 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Live Oak's roggenbier for the win.

    Abita makes a roggenweizen (roggenbier with hefeweizen yeast) that really isn't too bad.
  11. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Defender (619) May 29, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    <--- Thinks Abita Turbodog is freaking awesome
    brewsader likes this.
  12. BedetheVenerable

    BedetheVenerable Meyvn (1,023) Sep 5, 2008 Missouri

    I know that we could go round and round and round for days on 'styles' and 'stylistic correctness', but if one does attempt to follow the styles, Turbodog isn't really close to a Southern English Brown (which is not to say it's not a tasty beer!).
  13. ryan1788a5

    ryan1788a5 Poo-Bah (1,970) Nov 27, 2009 Massachusetts
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Bear Republic made a roggenbier at one point. Might have just been a one-off though.
  14. thecheapies

    thecheapies Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Fine. East End Fat Gary (tap-only in PA) is definitely a Southern English Brown Ale.
  15. marquis

    marquis Crusader (744) Nov 20, 2005 United Kingdom (England)

    To answer the OP, no American brewer could brew an authentic English Southern Brown Ale because it's not an authentic style in itself.It's a result one of the many misunderstandings and misconceptions which are rife in the beer world.
    At one time when every town had its own brewery or breweries , each offered a Brown Ale.There was no regional characteristic , where I live we had three fair sized breweries whose Brown Ales were quite distinctive and different; it was good business sense to offer a choice from the competition.
    There were and still are however two major brewers of Brown Ale , Newcastle in the North and Mann's from the South.But these are simply not typical Brown Ales at all.
    Some people think that brown Ale was simply bottled mild but it was usual to brew mild and Brown Ale as separate beers.
    So Southern English Brown Ale is simply a made up style and finding a genuine one is as easy as finding a unicorn.
  16. devlishdamsel

    devlishdamsel Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2009 Washington

    I love your posts. You are always contributing something new and interesting to straighten out the facts.
  17. MrOH

    MrOH Defender (690) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    This was the only beer I've had that would fit the BJCP guidelines for Southern English Brown:

    Apparently, no longer brewed, but I recall enjoying it. As far as roggenbier, never had a commercial one, but going by the guidelines, I used to brew one everyfall. This year, I just went with a straight up dunkelweizen, and I gotta say, its a more soothing and drinkable beer.
  18. RochefortChris

    RochefortChris Meyvn (1,027) Oct 2, 2012 North Carolina
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Going by guidlines or not, I can tell you Hobgoblin is not an ESB. It's one of my favorite beers from the UK actually and doesn't always get the credit it deserves I think.
  19. patto1ro

    patto1ro Defender (627) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands

    I've a recipe for Whitbread Forest Brown which is similar to what is usually called a Southern English Brown Ale. I doubt very much any US brewery would brew it - too weak and too sugary.
    tronester likes this.
  20. elNopalero

    elNopalero Poo-Bah (2,647) Oct 14, 2009 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Live Oak makes a roggenbier annually. I missed out last year but had it in 2011 and just loved it.

    Apparently Real Ale up in Blanco also made a roggenbier... once. Here's hoping they bring it back.

    Heard about the Bear Republic version but never got my hands on that either.
  21. RDMII

    RDMII Disciple (352) Apr 11, 2010 Georgia

    Abita's Roggenweizen looks like someone pissed into a puddle of mud.

    Rogue's Chatoe line has a Roggen beer, but I don't have much info on it. we have a keg of it for next week.
  22. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,109) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Iron Hill Brewpub (multiple locations in the Philly area) makes a very good Roggenbier (a beer they make periodically throughout the year). This beer won a Bronze Medal at the 2012 GABF.

  23. marquis

    marquis Crusader (744) Nov 20, 2005 United Kingdom (England)

    I seem to remember that a lot of people used to mix it with mild.It's a beer I often took to parties, but as the alternative at the time was Watney's Party4 or Party7 perhaps that's not saying much.
  24. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,243) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    One of my local breweries (Copper Kettle) made a Roggen that was pretty similar to the only "authentic" one I've had, from Thurn & Taxis.
    There aren't too many in Germany, so there might actually be more made over here than there.
  25. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Initiate (183) Jul 1, 2009 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Without a doubt there are more made in the US than in Germany. There have only ever been a handful of examples of Roggenbier on the German market.

    You could probably say the same about “Southern” brown ale, which is almost extinct in England. As Ron says, I doubt that many American beer geeks would want to drink an authentic example, too weak and too sweet. For those wondering about the difference between mild and brown ale, there is an important cultural difference in that in England dark mild is/was almost always a draught product and brown ale was bottled.

    By the way, I am fairly sure that nobody over here regards Hobgoblin as a brown ale (perhaps for this very reason).
  26. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,109) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Doh! I forgot to mention Iron Hill Rye Halladay in my previous post. That is also a very, very good Roggenbier.


    The name of Rye Halladay is a ‘pun’ on the name of Roy Halladay (a Phillies pitcher).
  27. patto1ro

    patto1ro Defender (627) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands

    Now they're all disappeared, I regret not trying more of the old-fashioned British bottled styles: Brown Ale, Light Ale, Sweet Stout, pretend Lager.

    Why is Brown Ale (watery Southern type) an "official" style when the Pale Ale equivalent, Light Ale isn't? Light Ale has a longer history, pre-dating Brown Ale by about 50 years.
  28. patto1ro

    patto1ro Defender (627) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands

    In the 1950's, Forest Brown was Whitbread Best Ale (Mild) ever so slightly tweaked.

    Whitbread Double Brown, there's a beer I'd like to taste. Should any brewer want to make my dream come true, get in touch.
  29. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    In a few months time an old style brown ale will once again be brewed at my local abbey. Can't wait.
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