News Green Flash to Build East Coast Brewery

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Todd, Jun 27, 2012.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,494) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Subscriber

    From Craft Business Daily ...
    Read the rest:
    eaglefreak likes this.
  2. bushycook

    bushycook Aspirant (235) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia
    Beer Trader

    Coolio fresh WC IPA!
  3. jbertsch

    jbertsch Meyvn (1,069) Dec 14, 2008 Massachusetts

    Great news. Getting fresh green flash out here isn't easy. At least their new bottle dating prevents shot-in-the-dark purchases. But it would be nice to have a fresher supply on the east coast... here's to open its in New England!
  4. RedMedicine

    RedMedicine Aspirant (237) Jun 3, 2005 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    There's such thing as fresh beer on one coast that originated on the other. All Green Flash has to do is put a fucking date on their bottles.
    jaxon53, kexp and chuckstout like this.
  5. Sneers

    Sneers Initiate (0) Dec 27, 2009 Pennsylvania

    They do (now).
  6. RedMedicine

    RedMedicine Aspirant (237) Jun 3, 2005 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Cool, news to me. I'll take back my comment, sort of (still annoyed that it took so long).
  7. Nugganooch

    Nugganooch Meyvn (1,445) Jan 13, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    I thought a Green Flash can only occur on the West Coast???
    El_Zilcho, leedorham and dukes like this.
  8. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,408) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Sierra Nevada
    New Belgium
    Green Flash

    When's an East Coast/Midwest brewery going to open a West Coast brewery? Which one will be first?
    denver10 likes this.
  9. jzeilinger

    jzeilinger Poo-Bah (4,610) Dec 4, 2004 Pennsylvania
    Supporter Subscriber Beer Trader

    I thought all the West Coast folk wanted to run the East Coast Brewers out of town?
  10. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,408) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    No, we just want to take over the world.
    ChanChan likes this.
  11. jzeilinger

    jzeilinger Poo-Bah (4,610) Dec 4, 2004 Pennsylvania
    Supporter Subscriber Beer Trader

    Ha! And you pretty much did when it comes to IPA's contrary to what others might say!!
    jeffsala likes this.
  12. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Look at a population density map and you will see why it hasnt happened. Yet. Eventually it will make sense, but it makes a lot more sense for west coast brewers to build in the east than the other way around.

    Actually, it has happened, within East/Midwest/South. Sam Adams has breweries in both the east and the midwest. Yuengling has breweries in the East and South.

    Categorizing Lagunitas and Sierra Nevada together is the problem. Going west coast to midwest is not really the same as going west coast to south. Lumping northeast/south/midwest together as "east coast" is silly, IMO.

    Edit: Also, there was the Magic Hat/Pyramid merger. That was sort of an East Coast moving West. Or maybe West Coast moving east. Or both, or neither.
    beerFool28607 and jmw like this.
  13. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    As long as Bell's Two Hearted exists, they havent come close.
    SteelersX likes this.
  14. Longstaff

    Longstaff Initiate (0) May 23, 2002 Massachusetts

    Seems like a lot of expansion in such a short time since they started brewing...

    ...imo GF WC IPA hasn't recovered from the last expansion yet...:astonished:

    The next few years will be interesting to watch these west coast breweries attempt to run two operations so far away from each other. <looks around nervously> This is my first death pool choice of big craft names for the next craft beer shakeout....<ducks and runs away>
    Argenuvian and vkv822 like this.
  15. commis

    commis Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2009 Massachusetts

    Wait, so all they have to do is put a fucking date on their bottles and it'll all be fresh?....
  16. leedorham

    leedorham Defender (699) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Erin likes this.
  17. Nugganooch

    Nugganooch Meyvn (1,445) Jan 13, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Momar42 likes this.
  18. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,408) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    I keep hearing this population density argument, and maybe there's something to that. But to me it seems like more of a simple demand issue. If the bigger eastern breweries (and to simplify things, I'm just dividing the country roughly down the middle, east and west here) can't meet the demand in the more densely populated East, I'd expect them just to expand or build a second brewery. Bell's or DFH maybe? Instead what we're seeing, at least most recently and maybe with a few exceptions, is western breweries moving in to fill that gap. And I think western breweries are already sending considerably more beer east than vice versa.

    I guess what surprises me is that, not only are eastern breweries not expanding west (yet), but they're apparently not building second breweries to increase local supply. Very generally speaking here, to me that indicates something about relative demand for eastern vs. western beers. I can't think of another compelling explanation for this trend.
    vkv822 and Levitation like this.
  19. FunkyMacGroovin

    FunkyMacGroovin Initiate (0) Sep 22, 2009 California

    Wow, have they even finished getting the new San Diego facility up to speed yet?
  20. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    But they are expanding. Bell's is expanding, GI sold out in order to get the money to expand. Plenty of other examples too. I dont think there is a huge difference. One big difference is that the west is more saturated. In CA, craft has a 13% dollar share, in the rest of the west its 18%. In the northeast 15%. In between and south? 6 to 9%.

    On the general rule that the next % is harder to get than the previous ones, it makes since for the west coast breweries to try to get into the midwest and south. Its a tough fight in Oregon and San Fran. Not as much in Charlotte and Chicago. But it isnt that there is more of a demand for west vs east beers, its that the midwest/south are playing catch up. Founders can only grow so fast.
  21. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,408) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Goose Island had more of a presence out here before the buyout. Now all I ever see is a random old bottle of Pere Jacques. Founders is one of relatively few "eastern" breweries I'd absolutely love to see on shelves at a store near me... and they've been around almost as long as Stone or DFH and much longer than Green Flash. What's the holdup?
    vkv822 likes this.
  22. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Founders was still tiny in 2007. In 2007, Stone was 69k barrels, Founders was 6k.

    Green Flash and Founders are on same path, with Green Flash about 1 year behind Founders. Not sure your point on that.
  23. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    On a slightly different note, is their a west coast version of New Glarus? Someone selling 100k barrels in only their home state with no need to spread distribution at all?
    beerFool28607 likes this.
  24. leedorham

    leedorham Defender (699) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Everybody lives east of Grand Rapids. The beer would have to cross a whole lot of nothing before it reached a population center of significance.

    DFH is an exception with their expansion westward, but look at the headaches it's caused them.
  25. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    An interesting way to see this, if you have the mapping software to do it, is to pick a few brewery locations and draw a circle around it that contains 100 million Americans (about 1/3 the population). That would be equivalent distribution areas for different breweries. Why west coast breweries ship east becomes really clear.

    Its not really accurate, as distribution doesnt quite work that way, but its a good approximation. A simpler way to do it is to look up state populations and start adding nearby states until you get to 100 million. CA starts at 37M, but where you gonna get the other 63M from? Michigan starts at 10M, but the other 90M is much closer.
    beerFool28607 likes this.
  26. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    is there.

    Really, I know the difference.
  27. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    I decided to test this for Green Flash and Founders. Not with mapping software, but I do have a census spreadsheet of US counties including longitude and latitude, so with a bit of manipulation:

    Founders 564 miles.
    Green Flash 1296 miles.

    Green Flash has to distribute a bit more than twice as far to get to 100 million American customers.
  28. jzeilinger

    jzeilinger Poo-Bah (4,610) Dec 4, 2004 Pennsylvania
    Supporter Subscriber Beer Trader

    Great beer but I still prefer the West Coast IPA's as a whole, but not in every case.
  29. ChanChan

    ChanChan Devotee (469) Dec 12, 2009 California
    Beer Trader

    What Draheim said!
  30. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,264) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    There was a local TV show that interviewed one of the owners. There was a time not so long ago when they almost went bankrupt. Then they started making beers they wanted to drink, and the beers sold like crazy. They have been expanding very fast, but were <50,000 barrels last year. Yeah, not that big, but growing fast now.
  31. woosterbill

    woosterbill Poo-Bah (2,616) Apr 6, 2009 Kentucky
    Beer Trader


    I didn't take the time to look up barrelage numbers, but New Glarus was the 19th biggest craft brewery in the country last year. The next biggest to distribute in only one state (at least according to seekabrew for the breweries I didn't know for sure distributed out of state) is Texas' Saint Arnold, which is significantly smaller at #43.

    New Glarus is a unique craft beer success story, no doubt about it.
    beertunes likes this.
  32. SawDog505

    SawDog505 Poo-Bah (2,392) Apr 9, 2010 New Hampshire
    Beer Trader

    My concern is that they already charge $11 for a 4 pack. In New Hampshire very few people are willing to pay that. I will pay it when fresh, but I haven't seen fresh in a year. I hope it pans out, but it is a risk.
  33. Erix

    Erix Initiate (135) Jun 4, 2001 Vermont

    Eastern breweries are in fact expanding, but they seem to mostly stay regional. Looking at PA specifically (which I'm most familiar with), Victory is building a second, much larger location, where they can produce their staples, so they can use the original location for experimental stuff. Troegs just moved to a larger location, and many of the smaller breweries (Sly Fox, Lancaster, Appalachian) are building additional locations, and almost becoming local chains. The population density thing makes sense to me, where they're still trying to saturate the market but have a long way to go. Why would the eastern breweries ship their beer to the west when they can't even keep up with local demand?
  34. kexp

    kexp Initiate (185) May 10, 2007 North Carolina

    And that, sir, sounds like a world I want to live in.
  35. TomTwanks

    TomTwanks Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2011 Ohio

    Green flash is one hell of a brewery. Looking forward to this.
  36. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,177) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Way to go Green Flash.

    Until someone tops Rayon Vert with a more readily accessible, reasonably priced, delicious, Bretty and sour BPA your future is unlimited. Double Stout and WCIPA are both fantastic beers as well.

    Come on East, we will welcome you with empty glasses outstretched.
  37. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Moderator (1,228) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Damn right. Bring it on Green Flash. Atlanta is loving what you send out this way. Make it fresher, and I won't lie.. I'd stock it every week in the fridge.
  38. harperman69

    harperman69 Aspirant (234) Feb 11, 2009 Tennessee
    Beer Trader

    Oskar Blues opening one in Brevard, NC.
  39. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    Shit, if you want a coastal city why not go with the Third Coast? There is a TON of great locations along Lake Michigan on the west coast of the state that would suit it perfectly. Ludington, Saugituck, or even further up by Traverse City.
  40. SteelersX

    SteelersX Disciple (370) Jan 30, 2011 New York
    Beer Trader

    Agreed - 2 hearted is second to none!
    steebo777 likes this.
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