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Hardywood Founders Discuss the Changing Beer Landscape and the Launch of Their New Brand, Suncrush

Discussion in 'Article Comments' started by BeerAdvocate, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. BeerAdvocate

    BeerAdvocate Founders (17,678) Aug 23, 1996 Massachusetts

    Precisiondigital likes this.
  2. Jaycase

    Jaycase Meyvn (1,260) Jan 13, 2007 Illinois
    Trader

    I LOL'd at this one. Thanks for the interview BA but it seems to have just been a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo in their responses.
     
  3. cjgiant

    cjgiant Poo-Bah (4,399) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Society

    Interesting interview. I'd be interested in trying these offerings and giving them a fair shake, for whatever that's worth. Hope Hardywood well with their targeted market.

    Though I am interested...
    I understand/agree with the "savvy" of the new entry consumers these days, the parallel of the wine/spirit "crowd" to those that might enjoy a low-cal beer seems odd. Alcohol does add calories (in similar fashion to sugars, proteins, and fats), and wine/spirits definitely have more alcohol than a beer. Can this lo-cal beer compete with the wine/spirit crowd on taste, then? Enough to allow those that might prefer a glass of wine to crack a beer instead?
     
    Precisiondigital and mikeinportc like this.
  4. MNAle

    MNAle Meyvn (1,111) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Could they possibly hit any more of the trendy pseudo-healthy fads?

    Gluten-reduced? What the bleep does that even mean? It is useless to actual gluten intolerant people, and hazardous to any celiacs. It is clearly empty and pointless fad chasing.

    Tells me all I need to know about "Suncrush."

    Just go away.
     
  5. rgordon

    rgordon Champion (893) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    It'll probably work, but I'll pass. My good memories of the soda Orange Crush will suffice.
     
    mikeinportc likes this.
  6. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,759) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    FYI: Gluten Reduced means less than 20 ppm.

    Turns out I've learned a few things about these issues from chatting with a colleague who has Celiac Disease.

    Folks with Celiac Disease are gluten intolerant but not all folks with gluten intolerance have Celiac Disease. Gluten intolerance or sensitivity isn't an either or thing for non-Celiac Disease folks. It seems to depend on the level or amount of gluten so some can tolerate gluten reduced beers when they can't tolerate regular beers.

    If you look though the linked article you'll find the names of some other breweries doing Gluten-reduced brewing.

    https://www.bottleneckmgmt.com/blog/gluten-free-beer-gluten-reduced-beer-what-you-need-to-know/
     
    #6 drtth, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    gangofmorlocks, GetMeAnIPA and ESHBG like this.
  7. ESHBG

    ESHBG Aspirant (235) Jul 30, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Exactly. My friend can drink gluten reduced beer with no issues but regular beer can bother her.

    I am open to these trends and would give them a go.
     
  8. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,759) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    The only two I've tried were the Glutiny Pale Ale and Glutiny Blonde from New Belgium. Your friend might want to give them a try. Both were fairly good.
     
    ESHBG likes this.
  9. rgordon

    rgordon Champion (893) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    That Celiac Disease is well identified and brewers are paying attention is testament to a market need to help those afflicted. This is good. It is unfortunate that full grain mixes are untenable for lots of folks.
     
  10. MNAle

    MNAle Meyvn (1,111) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Thanks, but both of my daughters and wife have celiac disease. None of them can tolerate any gluten at all. My one daughter has significantly damaged intestines that may or may not recover.

    Celiac disease is not an allergy. It is an auto-immune disease. I realize there is a continuum of sensitivity, but celiac disease can be very serious, indeed. My daughter is sensitive to food prepared in a kitchen that also prepared foods with gluten. Her entire house is gluten free of necessity, even though her husband and children are not celiacs.

    I didn't intend to get into all of this, but I don't need to be lectured on celiac disease.
     
    #10 MNAle, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  11. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,759) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Sorry to hear that about your family members and I do realize Celiac disease is not an allergy and can be seriously stressful for all involved.

    My basic point was that there are people who can benefit from gluten reduced beers and making one or more available is not just pandering to a fad, especially when there are folks who can tolerate the levels found in the gluten reduced beers.
     
    gangofmorlocks and ESHBG like this.
  12. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (305) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Trader

    There is quite a bit of bias in a statement like that. They stopped drinking regular beers, and now they only drink low/no gluten beers, and the "symptoms" have gone away. Unless you are being tested by a doctor, this doesn't give a good picture of what's going on.

    People with Celiac's Disease should not be drinking alcohol, period. I don't want to discredit people who do have a serious, dangerous disease, because those people are probably not even eating anything prepared by other hands. I wouldn't. That is obviously not who this is aimed at.

    I really laughed at a meeting I was in where they were talking about #brunching and how people who brunch all day are being more "healthful" by drinking vodka sodas and other low calorie drinks. Last time I checked, drinking vodka from the early afternoon through the night, isn't very healthful. As with all things, it's relative.
     
  13. ESHBG

    ESHBG Aspirant (235) Jul 30, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Of course testing is the best but we can know our own bodies and do trial and error too. With things like this there can be a scale with Celiac being at the top end. Anyone who is concerned about gluten and feel that reducing is beneficial, this product would be right up their alley.
     
  14. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (78) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    I'll probably start seeing these sold exclusively in Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, or Gelson's out here on the West Coast.
     
  15. Precisiondigital

    Precisiondigital Initiate (112) Dec 27, 2018 Maryland

    I think they are going after the gluten free market because they have no choice but to separate themselves from an increasingly crowded market of micro brews... and my wife is gluten free so these are the sort of beers she can handle without having a severe reaction. I think its dumb though for them to cater to the wine crowd instead of creating a stand alone IPA that's gluten free
     
  16. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (305) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Trader

    Agree. My larger point is that this seems like such a tiny sliver of customers, who are also at least as interested in vodka/sodas and wine- it's kind oof aa funny segment to target. The success of All Day (and Budweiser for that matter) is the amount of people buying a case every couple of days, or once per week. This project sounds like a decent idea at face value (I'd drink something like this at the pool), but I just don't think appeals to enough people to really work. However I still see those hard seltzers flying off the shelf (they are so cheap tho) so I could be wrong.
     
    ESHBG likes this.
  17. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,759) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Frankly, after re-reading the interview comments made by the Hardywood folks I'd say too many here are obsessing over the "gluten reduced."

    From my reading I'd say that going gluten reduced (not gluten free) was an afterthought and they are targeting a different market segment with the gluten reduced as an added feature to help broaden the market segment a bit.

    Note: Gluten Reduced is not equal to Gluten Free.
    Note: There are people who have some degree of gluten sensitivity but who do not have Celiac disease.
     
  18. TheInsomniac

    TheInsomniac Initiate (56) Jan 11, 2015 New Mexico

    Diversifying beer: good
    Chasing BS health fads: bad
     
  19. TheInsomniac

    TheInsomniac Initiate (56) Jan 11, 2015 New Mexico

    Nope. Non-celiac gluten sensitivity has never been shown in a large double blind trial. Meta-analyses and re-challenge studies continue to show that the effect of gluten is no worse than placebo. For many people with self-professed NCGS studies show that either fructans or FODMAPS are the actual irritants. But ultimately, doing these studies is incredibly hard because they're expensive, they're hard to control, the placebo effect is incredibly powerful, and everyone from quack doctors to beer brewers are trying to convince someone they have a malady that despite decades of study doctors have not been able to conclusively agree even exists.

    We've also been here before. See, for example, Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, sulfites in wine, or any of the other anti-food fads of the past.
     
    rodbeermunch and DonicBoom like this.
  20. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,759) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Interesting. Medicine is not my area of research, but the Celiac Disease Foundation is of the impression there is a non-Celiac gluten/wheat sensitivity.

    https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/related-conditions/non-celiac-wheat-gluten-sensitivity/


    As are some researchers, e.g.,

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24533607
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24619056

    Have you any pointers to studies that suggest it's a placebo effect and/or to the meta-analyses you mentioned? Thanks.
     
    #20 drtth, Mar 4, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  21. Seanhillmusiccleaner

    Seanhillmusiccleaner Initiate (42) Jul 15, 2014 Illinois
    Trader

    Low alcohol, low carb, low gluten (?), fruit-infused.

    Yeah, no thanks. I’d rather have a beer.
     
    Squire likes this.
  22. TheInsomniac

    TheInsomniac Initiate (56) Jan 11, 2015 New Mexico

    The Celiac Disease Foundation has a large vested interest in gluten sensitivity. This food fad has done wonders for increasing awareness of and providing food options for actual celiac sufferers.

    The first "research" you posted is nothing more than a literature review... of a lot of bad literature of the exact kind that doesn't stand up to confirmation.

    The second is exactly the kind likely to be subjected to the placebo effect. "NCGS was defined as symptoms responsive to a gluten-free diet (GFD) in the setting of negative celiac serology."

    What are those "symptoms?" They are people self-reporting how they feel on the diet, which is a terrible way to conduct research. Not double-blind, no crossover, etc.

    Here is what an actual direct study of gluten intolerance looks like:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5591881/

    Or here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29380821

    For the latter study: "This is the first demonstration of the existence of NCGS in children." There were 11 children who tested positive after this double-blind, controlled trial. They started with 1114 who claimed to have chronic GI symptoms. That's 1%. And, among those 11, it's very likely that at least some were false positives.

    So, at best, if gluten intolerance exists, it is incredibly rare. Nowhere near the prevalence people claim it is (in the children, 99% of them have something else going on).
     
  23. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,759) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Thanks for the links, etc. Interesting patterns of results in these studies.