Hefeweizen(s)

Go to Resis Bierstube in Chicago on a nice day, get there early, and it in their outdoor biergarten.

Weihenstephaner Hefe-Weissbier
Ayinger Brau-Weiss
Schneider Weisse

stick to the authentic Bavarian versions, and you can almost always find these on draft at good German places in town.

 

Right, Some of those ARE American Wheats and NOT Hefe-Weizens, and it's been debated at length on the old forums in the past (Widmer is the worst offender, arguably).

 

No love for Maisel? Perhaps it's because the Maisel family lives part of the year in Charleston and therefore distribution here is good, but I actually prefer Maisel over most. Maisels Weissbiere were the first I ever tried (way back in 1988 or so). Does the rest of the US not see much of this beer?

 

I don't think I've seen it up here in Charlotte -- but I'll keep an eye out for it.

 

I'll meet you there in a couple months -- Biergarten won't open till then.

 

As in the States, the good & flavorful brews in Germany are also made by the smaller breweries. I seen little special about Weihenstephaner, as it replicates the "big" guys in many ways (Hacker-Pschorr, Erdinger, Paulaner, Franziskaner).
In my view, seek out the "craft" guys making original style Weissbier. Schneider is the most readily available (and the oldest), but others such as Michael Plank (Gold medal at WBC 3x and "Small Brewery of the Year" in 2008) and Unertl (Haag) can also be found in the US, which are much more complex and tone down the light sweet fruitiness often associated with their paler macro-brethren. Both of them also make a bock version, and in Plank's case, a Heller and Dunkler-weizenbock, both of which are outstanding.
There aren't too many "original" style US versions that I've found. That said, Vitus is good and Mickey Finn's, north of Chicago, used to be pretty good, although I haven't been there in a couple years.

 

I haven't had Finn's in a while either, but Piece Restaurant & Brewpub on North Ave. in Chicago has an award winning Weizen that's pretty good. I think it's a year-round tap too.

 

If only BMC were as "bad" as those listed breweries. #GermanProblems

 

Weihenstephaner's yeast strains are, to my mind, some of the best -- if not *the* best -- in the world. That goes for the Hefeweizen as well as their Original. And the fact that their beers hold up so well on the trans-Atlantic voyage is testimony to their skills as well. I agree with you about Schneider, though. Not too sold on the Plank stuff. One of my favorites (that is available in NYC, but not sure where else) is Traunsteiner Hofbrau's Hefeweizen; great balance of clove and banana.

 

Several of those brands basically are BMC, though that's not to discredit their beers.

 

That is one of my favorites

 

I had that one last night, it has a lot of bananna nose and flavor, I thought it was great

 

Also, as Weihenstephan predates these "big" guys by a few hundred years, isn't it more likely that they are trying to replicate Weihenstephan...with considerably less success, I might add (though I, too, would take any of those over the large majority of US craft Hefeweizens).

 

To me Weihenstephaner, Ayinger, and Schneider make the best examples of the style. Paulaner's and Hacker-Pschorr are also excellent.

Not sure if it's distributed in your neck of the woods, but one of my all-time favorite summertime beers is Sly Fox Royal Weisse. Hefeweizen in a can; how can you beat that? And you can get a case for around $30.

 

Yup, Sly Fox Royal Weisse is indeed a tasty Hefeweizen.

I also enjoy Stoudt’s Heifer-in-Wheat. I look forward to that beer being released in a couple of months. Yum!

Cheers!

 

Spaten-Franziskaner is the only one owned by AB-InBev, no?

 

That's what I was thinking, but I believe Handle was just comparing brewery sizes more than product quality. At least that's the benefit of the doubt I'm handing him!

 

I almost forgot about Heifer-in-Wheat! Another really good hefeweizen.

 

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm getting at. Not slamming those breweries at all, just saying that they are owned by near-BMC sized companies.

For example, Brau Holding International (owned in part by Heineken) owns Paulaner and Hacker-Pschorr.

 

franziskaner has always had a special place in my heart.

 

I'm with ya on the Maisel's. Out of all German weissbier - Maisel's is my favorite. I didn't realize there were any distribution channels in the US. I'll have to keep my eyes open

 

I forgot Hofbrau's Hefe is really good as well. Im not a huge fan of Paulaner, Erdinger, or Franziskaner.

 

I like Ayinger's Weizen-bock as well. Dont forget Aventinus.

 

Yeah, I actually like it quite a bit. I like just the right kick of banana in my hefe's, and that one hits the spot. My favorite in that regard is actually a Hefe done by the Rivertowne guys here in Pittsburgh. Good bit of banana and the right hit of clove. Looking forward to getting a growler of that once summer is in full effect.

 

Drive all the way to Texas for Live Oak. It might be worth it.

 

Better yet, trade me something tasty and it can be shipped to your doorstep!

 

GOD DAMN, Aventinus is on another plain for me, incredible stuff...as for hefeweizens the Germans are king, any of the previously mentioned ones are worth tracking down. I too have tried to find a good american version but find most remind me more of a witbier, like Dream Weaver and In-Heat Wheat. SN Kellerweis tops my least so far...

 

While the Weihstehpaner brewery predates the others, the weissbier does not.
Although the style dates to roughly the 15th century, Schneider is actually the oldest brewery to continually brew weissbier - that is available in the States - as Georg was the gentlemen responsible for securing "public" brewing rights from the Bavarian government in 1872. He was originally in Munich, among other locations, before he moved his entire operating to Kelheim.
If not for him, the style would probably have been defunct.
Most others have only been brewing the style in the last 60-100 years (most of them after WWII), including Weihenstephan.
Erdinger, founded in 1886, is the world's largest weissbier brewery and is actually the model for most of the "big" guys (pale, light, fruity) as they were among the first to "export" weissbier beyond Bavaria and the first to filter, creating "crystal" weiss'n.
Schneider, while they make several versions, actually still primarily makes "original" style weissbier, which has a little caramalt or roasted malt in the grist bill, giving it a little more color and body.

 

Franziskaner-Spaten* & Lowenbrau* are owned by AB-InBev.
Paulaner* & Hacker-Pschorr* is BHI/Heineken
Hofbrau*, Weihenstephaner, Ayinger, Maisel, Augustiner* & Erdinger are all still Bavarian owned, albeit somewhat bigger.
Plank, Unertl, Kaltenberg, Karg, Dachs, and many, many others are all still Privatbrauerei (privately or family owned)

* all are members of Munich's "Big Six," which are the only brands served at Oktoberfest.

 

easy street wheat is a great american offering as well, but not sure it fits into the hefe category.

 

Not trying to argue with your history here (and, as said, I really like Schneider...probably more than I like Weihenstephan, matter of fact), but I am among those who -- though it is partially based on speculation -- believe that Weihenstephan was brewing similar styles to the current Bavarian Weizen back in 1040. Of course this doesn't mean that their current version resembles any of those ancient versions; but I find it hard to believe that that knowledge was simply lost and that when they commercially picked up the style again they consciously emulated, or attempted to replicate, their competitors. Also, I stand by my original statement that the yeast strain, not the history, makes the beer great.

 

The Weihenstephaner yeast strain is relatively common and is used by many weissbier brewers. As you may know, there is a brewing universtity at Weihenstephan and a yeast bank, similar to Siebel in the US, and the yeast is readily available, even to homebrewers.
As for the history of the style, weissbier rights were exclusive property of the Bavarian royal family for nearly 300 years as it had at one time been the most popular style in the kingdom (and a primary source of royal revenues and was responsible for funding the 30 Years War) until the rise of lager beers in the mid-1800s. That meant it was ILLLEGAL for anyone other than the royal brewer to produce weissbier (and profit from it).
Georg Schneider took over as royal brewer in the mid-19th and eventually secured the rights to privately brew weissbier in 1872 as part of a lease swap in what is now Weissesbrauhaus in downtown Munich (now the Schneider beer hall, just off Marienplatz). At that time, the styles's popularity - and it's revenue production to the royal coffers - was in serious decline as the market moved almost entirely to lager beers. Schneider's brewery was nearly the only one producing weissbier for several decades and the style has really only been picked up again by the big breweries since WWII.
.

 

Again, not trying to argue history. Kaltenberg, I believe, was also allowed as a royal brewer to brew Weizen beer legally (and as such held a sort of "monopoly on the style for over 200 years), but that doesn't entail that their beers are among the best of the style.

FWIW, my appreciation for Weihenstephan's yeast developed in no small part from using the Fermentis Saflager 34/70 in my homebrewed lagers. Which is not to say that my beers finish as clean as Weihenstephan's, just that I can see, and appreciate, the potential they hold -- when put in the right hands...which, all too often, they are not. But the brewers in Freising seem to do a pretty decent job with them.

 

Agreed that "history" does not mean "quality," but my major point from above is that the "weissbier" that is known in this country is actually the later "modern" version, based on the pale, fruity wheat beers produced by mostly large brewers and evolved over the past few decades, while the actual style was traditionally darker & more complex, represented most closely in the modern world by what Schneider does and many of the small, private brewers. The homogonization of the style to the Weihenstephan/Hacker-Pschorr/Franziskaner/Erdinger pale wheats is the same as what occurred to the US beer market as it was dominated by high-gravity, adjunct brewers here for nearly a century - and most BA folks have long since turned their noses at that gentrification of the pale lager style and avoid BMCs.

Kaltenberg is actually owned by Prinz Leopold, who is grandson of Ludwig III and decendant of the Wittlesbach Bavarian royal line (so, yes, their family's brewing lineage goes back to the 13th C.). Their claim to fame, however, is actually their Munich style dunkel (which is delicious), even though their weissbier is probably better known in the States due to their brewpub in Colorado.

Historically, the Wittlesbach royal court had several brewers and breweries, of course, over their centuries of weissbier control, beginning in Schwarzach, near Nurnburg, with a network all over Bavaria at the time (all brewing was local to prevent spoilage, etc.). The "modern" Kaltenberg Schlossbraueri was built @ 1870 and located in Kaltenberg (and home of the world's largest midevil knights jousting tournament every summer) only produces the dunkel lager and represents about 1/3 of the company's overall output. Their production facility, located in Furstenfeldbruck, makes all their other products, including weissbier. Even then, their mainstream weissbier is labeled "Hell" for "light" to differentiate it from the traditional "Original" style weissbier produced by the likes of Schneider (see below). As mentioned above, the Wittlesbachs abandoned weissbier in the late 19th C. as it's popularity pretty much disappeared in favor of lagers, such as Munich & later Pilsner/Helles.




As for Weihenstephan, I have no quibble on the lager or the quality of their beers overall. I'm merely pointing out that its weissbier is nothing special IMHO versus any of the other macro weissbiers out there and readily available - even though people seem to rave about it as somehow "better" that the other big guys. To me, it's a Coors Banquet vs. Miller High Life comparison, albeit on a much smaller and more nuanced scale.
I personally prefer many of the smaller, craft versions of weissbier, unfortunately of which only a precious few are available in the US, including the aforementioned Plank & Unertl (Haag), both of which are wonderful, particularly if you can find them relatively fresh.
Good conversation...glad to have other weissbier fans on here!
Prost!!

 

Franziskaner

 

That's an interesting take on the -- agreed -- disproportionate BA love for Weihenstephan's Weissbier. I never held it in particularly high regard (as I said earlier in the thread, I really always preferred Maisel, Schneider, and Traunstein...all darker versions of the style). Still, I recently re-tried the Weihenstephan and did find it to be very nicely balanced and creamy in texture...and actually quite a bit better (IMO) than the usual offerings mentioned here. But I do have to agree that I don't necessarily see it as the stand-out that most BAs seem to see it as. Still, I have to admit I am pleased to see it in the BA top 100, despite its relative subtlety. I guess I wish that more BAs could see in German lagers what they seem to see in Weihenstephan Weissbier: namely that bigger is not always better.

 

Had the Weihenstephaner with supper tonight. It wasn't bad, but it won't unseat my current favorite.

 

Do you happen to know how old that bottle of Weihenstephan Weissbier was?

I have consumed tasty German brewed Hefeweizen beers and I have also consumed non-tasty German brewed Hefeweizen beers. I assume that the non-tasty beers were due to old age and/or mishandling in shipment across the Atlantic. I have consumed too many non-tasty German brewed Hefeweizen beers for my liking.

Cheers!

 

You would have to go to Ft Collins CO to get it, or trade for a Growler, but this is the best US Hefeweizen that I have had so far: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/22886/58515

 

Like any of these questions which do you want, locals? American or the original?