Hefeweizen SMaSH?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by vfiend, Jun 20, 2013.

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  1. vfiend

    vfiend Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Colorado

    Anyone ever do a SMaSH (Single Malt and Single Hop) Hefeweizen?

    I like Hefe's a lot and I'm intrigued by the simplicity of the SMaSH idea. But I'm pretty new to brewing and don't really have a clue about designing beers.

    I was just wondering what this would be like, if it's possible, if it's stoopid or wh-at.

    Opine my fellow brewers. Opine.
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,419) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    I haven't. But a single malt beer would pretty much by definition not be a hefeweizen, which is made from wheat malt (50-70%), with pilsner malt for the rest.

    But you could certainly use Wheat Malt -or- Pilsner Malt, hop with a single Noble Hop, and ferment with a Weizen yeast. It wouldn't really be a hefe, but might be interesting.
  3. vfiend

    vfiend Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Colorado

    I was thinking maybe Hallertau for the hop
  4. inchrisin

    inchrisin Defender (654) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana

    That'd be my go to hop. I'd shoot high on the hops if I did all wheat and consider a late hop addition too. I'm not sure why, but I think that wheat malt has something kind of sweet about it that needs a counter-balance.
  5. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    I would happily try it. Don't be afraid to experiment, especially if you're doing five gallon batches.

    I have noticed that while my various smash beers haven't all been big hits, but they've all been plenty tasty enough to enjoy the experience of making them, and enjoy drinking the beer. Meanwhile, some have been pretty damn tasty, especially bravo/Munich smash, with 12 lbs munich, 0.5oz bravo at 60, 1 oz bravo at 5, 2 oz bravo at FO (I think). The high AA of the bravo made it somewhat IPA like, but not overpowering at all (IBUs were around 47, again, if I am recalling correctly, too lazy to look it up). Pure munich malt is aweseome, at least if you ask me. Also my maris otter / simcoe smash is drinking mighty fine (I have a few bottles left).

    Toss some hefe yeast into a beer with either pilsner or wheat malt as the base, and use hallertau if you have them. Use at least 1oz at flameout, bitter to a pretty low IBU, and use at least three ounces of hops total. Hallertau isn't a real strong tasting hop, so you won't be over-hopping it. I think you'll like the results, and you'll certainly have something different to drink for a while.

    I'm not a big fan of hoppy wheat beers or hefe's*, but if that sort of thing suits you, screw it man, dump the whole bag of hallertau in there.

    If you don't have hallertau, use something that's pretty low AA, but put a fairly good chunk in there at FO. I used almost five ounces of fuggles on a smash, with most of it at 5 min and flameout, and it still wasn't that hoppy, but had a nice flavor. I like the earthy-ness of fuggles a lot, but don't skimp on them or you won't get much out of them.

    Also, there's a new variety of hop, MOAR hops. They're very tasty, you might want to try using those. :sunglasses:

    *I will still drink them tho :grinning:
    Eriktheipaman and Duff27 like this.
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,419) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    I can't say that this wouldn't be good, but I will say it would make take this beer further away from a true hefe, which would typically have no late hops.
  7. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,004) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Saaz and red wheat malt.... GO!
    AlCaponeJunior likes this.
  8. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Agree 100% with this and brew mine this way, however in competition.... When I received my NHC first round scoresheets back this year, my double decocted hefeweizen scored a 41. When scanning down the comments section of both scoresheets, I had received points off for the beer not having enough orange peel flavor and not enough late hopping. Good times.
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,419) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Eriktheipaman likes this.
  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,255) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    So we're the judges of low rank? Or just ones unfamiliar with the style? 41 is a great core, so did it move on?
  11. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Thats what surprised me, both were national. Unfortunately it didn't move on, although it did go mini-BOS. I use WY3638, as I really like the subtle pear, apple, and vanilla esters against the big clove flavors and melanoidins, which could have been different enough that it hurt me in the mini-BOS (that or there were just way better beers competing against it).
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,419) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Next time try a little orange zest at flameout and maybe dry hop with 3-4 ounces of Hallertau. :relaxed:
    nozferatu46, barfdiggs and inchrisin like this.
  13. vfiend

    vfiend Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Colorado

    wow. dig the feedback. i have a barleywine i'm gonna brew up next. then after that i think i'll mess with the hefe recipe. thanks for all the comments!

    so i'm still at the partial mash stage - could i do this as a partial mash with dme or lme? and if so guesstimates on quantities?

    if not, and it has to be an extract brew, again, how much lme or dme?

    i'm not quite ready to make the leap to all grain.

    thanks again
  14. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Moderator (1,228) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Grab Beersmith. It'll help with making your recipes.. regardless of the way you make them ( all grain, partial, extract).
  15. inchrisin

    inchrisin Defender (654) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana

    Also keep in mind that this sounds like we should give up on this being a traditional hefe that would score well in competition. Worst case scenario we're going for something he can choke down 5 gallons of.
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,419) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    That's a bit different. A partial mash doesn't really make sense with a single malt beer. So for an extract batch...

    AFAIK there are no 100% wheat extracts available. The stuff called 'wheat' extract is normally a blend of pale and wheat malts. Which actually works out nicely for a hefe. But it wouldn't be the 'single malt' you're looking for, if that's important to you. But if I were going to do an extract hefe, that's what I would use.

    Either way, a typical hefe OG would be about 1.048. With LME, you'd need about 6.7 lbs for a 5 gallon extract batch. With DME, you'd need about 5.4 lbs for a 5 gallon extract batch.
  17. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    BIAB would allow for a 100% wheat beer (BIAB gives a middle finger to stuck sparges) :relaxed:

    Tettanang, Saaz, or any Hallteraur should work as a single hop choice for a Hefe....
  18. vfiend

    vfiend Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Colorado

    Thanks guys. Yeah, I read about the extracts being 60% this and 40% that, etc. so I knew it wouldn't be a true Single Malt. That's ok. I'll get around to doing a purist SMaSH with a different style later on.

    And I'm so new at this I wouldn't consider a competition for a long time. But, I do hope it's a little better than chokedownable :relaxed:
  19. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    About the 10th or so beer I made was an extra IPA which I dumped the rest of two bags of hops into, just to use them up. It wound up being an ounce for bittering (columbus, I think), and around 4.5 oz at flameout (the remnants of the two bags, about 2.5oz cascade and 2oz willamette). Turned out fantastic, and until I made the APA IPA, there were no contenders for my personal "best IPA."

    I would have happily entered that beer into a competition, just to compete. Would it have won? Probably not, but then my APA IPA probably wouldn't have won either. But I would have loved to see feedback, and to simply participate in a beer judging event. I'm certainly proud enough of (some of) my beers to put them up against other people's beers, even if I don't expect to win. Kinda like when me and two buddies entered "roundball ruckus" (3 on 3 basketball) back in the day. We knew there a zero percent chance of our team winning a trophy, but it was fun to enter anyway*.

    *We got knocked out on our third game by superior players. :rolling_eyes:
  20. vfiend

    vfiend Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Colorado

    Well, I've put together what I'm calling a Pseudo SMaSH Hefeweizen recipe with Beersmith. I know it's not really a SMaSH but it's a simple enough recipe for my first.

    Any thoughts?

    5lbs. 8 oz. Dry Wheat Extract 8.0 SRM
    1 oz. Hallertau 15 min.
    1 oz. Hallertau 5 min.
    Wyeast Labs #3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

    Est. ABV 4.8%
    Est. OG 1.048
    Est. FG 1.012
    13.6 IBU's
  21. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,419) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Looks like a hefe with some extra hop flavor/aroma, if that's your goal. If you're not looking for extra hop character (and want something more traditional), 1 oz of the Hallertau at 60 minutes and no late additions would do it.
  22. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    It will be fine, brew it.
  23. vfiend

    vfiend Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Colorado

    In Beersmith when I eliminated the 15 and 5 min hops addition and changed it to 60 it shot up the IBU's around 19, which according to BS was out of the traditional IBU range for a hefe.

    Only 15 min. hop addition brought IBU's to around 13. Only 5 min. hop addition brought IBU's to around 9.

    I'm just trying to learn a bit here about homebrewing and the software so please don't think I'm giving you a hard time or questioning your knowledge, etc. Like I said, just trying to wrap my pointy head around this. :relaxed:

    I might be confusing IBU's with actual hop flavor and aroma (scratches head).
  24. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    With less than 20 IBUs, it's not going to be very bitter at all. Whether that's 9 or 15 or 22 won't make much difference.

    Late hops additions will add more hops aroma and flavor, and these might be more noticeable than just the bitterness level. Whether this is an issue to you depends on your desired results for this beer. I personally add some late hops to virtually every beer I make, even wheats/hefs/blondes etc, because that's how I like them. Whether it's in style or fits a traditional version is not important to me. YMMV, decide accordingly.

    One thing I'm not that fond of is really hoppy wheat beers, so when brewing that type of beer, I tend to NOT go overboard on the hops. However, I still wind up using about 2.0 - 2.5oz in that style of beer, and this doesn't bring it anywhere near "hoppy wheat" to me. Note that these are typically low AA hops that aren't intensely flavored. Obviously if you use citra, simcoe, bravo or Super-Galena, you'll need to proceed differently than if you're using willamette, fuggles, saaz, EKG etc.
  25. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,419) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    You can cut the 60 minute addition back to less than one ounce to hit whatever predicted IBU number you want. But it will depend on the actual Alpha Acid percent of the hops you get, which may or may not be the same as Beersmith's assumptions.

    Yes, IBUs are a measure of bitterness from isomerized alpha acids. Hop flavor (other than bitterness) and aroma comes from different hop oils. For maximum bitterness, use hops early. For maximum flavor/aroma, use them late.
  26. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    My beersmith software shows a recommended ibu range of 8 - 15 for german wheats (weizens / weiss).
  27. vfiend

    vfiend Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Colorado

    BTW, there is an all wheat SMaSH video on Youtube. I didn't want to try it though because of the decoction and several levels of holding temps, etc. It looked too complicated for a bonehead like myself.
  28. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    You can easily do it as a Brew in a Bag brewing (no decoction needed) as you don't have to worry about a stuck sparge. Very easy.

    Decoctions sound scarier than they actually are. In reality they're just labor intensive and really long when you start doing double and triple decoctions.
  29. pweis909

    pweis909 Meyvn (1,453) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Supporter Subscriber

    See the dampfbier thread - you could do a SMASH dampfbier no problem.

    However, many might say that hops should not shine in a weizen as the esters produced by weizen yeasts can clash with a strong hop flavor and aroma presence. One beer that defied this belief, in my opinion was New Glarus Crack'd Wheat, which had a robust American hop presence (from Amarillo and Cascade, I think - not singled hopped or single malt, in any event)
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