help with green apple off flavor?

Not at all noob questions! That flavor can indicate that the beer is immature and needs to condition longer.

From what I know, green apple flavor is normal in some American Lagers. It can taste grassy or cidery too, and can be caused by removing the beer from yeast too soon, premature flocculation, lack of oxygen in the wort to begin with, bacteria, or oxidation.

The flavor you taste is caused by an intermediate compound in the production of alcohol. Some yeast make more of it than others.

 

A green apple flavor is classically associated with perceptible levels of acetaldehyde.

That is indeed possible. During bottle conditioning a secondary fermentation is occurring and perhaps with more time in the bottle the yeast will 'process' the acetaldehyde.

For future batches it is a best practice to let the yeast process the acetaldehyde during primary fermentation.

How long was the batch in the primary before you decided to bottle?

Cheers!

 

You can learn more about acetaldehyde here:

https://beerandbrewing.com/off-flavor-of-the-week-acetaldehyde/

Permit me to highlight: “Avoid racking beer off the yeast trub before fermentation is complete.” In other words do not package (bottle) your beer until the yeast has ‘cleaned up’ the acetaldehyde that was produced earlier during primary fermentation.

Cheers!

 

And for certain (most?) batches that may indeed be the case. The yeast 'rules' the fermentation schedule.

Considering what seems to have occurred for this batch that may be prudent.

Do you take gravity samples of your beers? Did you measure the final gravity of this batch? I personally make it a practice to taste my final gravity samples to ensure there are no off flavors - this is part of my ongoing QA/QC process of homebrewing.

Cheers!

 

What temp did you ferment the beer at? SO4 can produce some really weird flavors if fermented warm. It’s most likely acetaldehyde but a warm ferment with S04 could be adding to the off flavors.

 

BINGO!!

Cheers!

 

It's better to wait a little longer than to not wait long enough. As you develop and stabilize your process, you'll learn what works. Tasting before packaging is always a good idea, but doesn't always tell the whole story. With acetaldehyde, tasting is generally good enough. But with diacetyl (buttery flavor/aroma) , for example, the beer can taste clean, but diacetyl can still be made (because some amount of its precursor is still in the beer). In that case, longer time can ensure that the precursor can be converted to diacetyl, and then absorbed by the yeast.

 

If you don’t have temp control I’d suggest maybe a more forgiving strain that is cleaner at higher temps. US-05 or Bry97 would be better if you want to make IPAs with dry yeast. Bry97 will give you a hazier beer than US05 if that’s what you’re going for. So4 at 68-70 can get a little weird.

 

Here's a link to the applicable page from John Palmer's book, How To Brew. http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors

If you haven't read the book, it's free to read online (first edition). The 4th edition is available in good bookstores or online sites for around $16-$18 if you want a hard copy to highlight, write notes, etc.

 

Let your beer condition warm for a couple more weeks. My guess is the green apple will go away.

 

Is s04 related to wlp002? I had a friend who used 002 for everything and his beers always tasted like apples.

 

Yes most generic British ale strains show/state that they can produce apple flavors. I have had a few in some brews. Sometimes it is nice, others not so much.

 

Your friend makes you drink young beer. 04 is not related to 02.

 

Nope. Not young beer. Picked it up in a year old barleywine of his.

 

I used S-04 to brew a 'NEIPA' and that yeast worked well for that purpose. I brew with US-05 a lot but I would never, ever use that yeast for a 'NEIPA'.

Cheers!

 

S04 is fine for a NE ipa. 05 is too clean and offers no character besides a clean fermentation.

 

Then ur friend makes bad beer. I’ve used 02 a few times and never have I ever had green apple. Maybe he didn’t make a proper starter for such a big beer such as a barley wine?

 

Yeah, he did. Any time he used wlp002 he got green apple. Never had an issue with wlp001.

 

Wierd never had the issue. It’s @VikeMan house yeast and I wonder if he can chime in.

 

I haven't noticed any particular propensity for acetaldehyde/green apple with WLP002/Wyeast 1968 (haven't noticed it in a finished beer), and IIRC haven't had it detected by friends, event attendees, or beer judges. Some potentially salient points: I generally use this strain in the mid to high 60s (and keep active temp control all the way through) and oxygenate the wort appropriately for the gravity. I also crash and decant my starters, and use yeast nutrient in both the starters and the beer wort. Also, the strain is a fast flocculator. I would say that just because you start to see a lot of yeast at the bottom doesn't mean that there aren't still a lot of active cells in suspension, doing their thing (including acetaldehyde cleanup). Every beer/yeast strain has acetaldehyde. The important thing is to allow the yeast to reduce it.

@SFACRKnight: how does your friend's post fermentation process look regarding O2? Alcohol can be oxidized, producing acetaldehyde. Also, you mentioned that all his beers have it. Have you ever had a Fuller's beer? If so, did you taste green apple in that beer?

 

Yup, US-05 will not yield the characteristics of a 'NEIPA' beer.

Cheers!

 

Never got it from fullers. He fermented in kegs, transferred with co2. He never tasted it.

 

This
I think some are confusing acetaldehyde with diacetyl...1968/002 is notorious for the latter

 

I've had a commercial brewer tell me they used chico for their NEIPA. I didn't get the sense that it was used because it was superior - but that it was satisfactory and plentiful. I was surprised.
That beer got good reviews here.

 

What brewery/brand are you referencing here?

Did they do something 'extra' to the grain bill for this beer?

A fellow homebrewer sent me a split batch of a Juicy/Hazy Pale Ale with half being fermented with Wyeast 1318 and the other half with Wyeast 1056 (Chico). The 1318 version was murky/turbid/opaque with soft mouthfeel while the 1056 was much clearer in appearance and it lacked a soft mouthfeel.

Cheers!

 

Maybe flour is being utilized.

 

Jason, maybe you have the 'answer' here?

I am philosophically not a fan of brewers adding flour to get the turbid/murky/appearance of the so called 'NEIPA' beers.

Cheers!

 

We're pretty far off-topic already -I'll just send a PM.

More on topic would be an emphasis on yeast health in future batches to minimize the off-notes described here. Proper oxygenation, nutrition, et cetera.

 

I'm surprised there aren't more green apple and butterscotch bombs when brewing under-conditioned NEIPAs...might be hard to pick up in something so juicy, and one-dimensional
, imho

 

1056 beer can be hazy-ish when they are young, and I am sure chill haze, protein haze, and hop haze may all contribute to the early haziness of those beers, but they quickly drop clear. It's not a certain answer, but merely speculation. I would love to be included in that PM.

 

@StupidlyBrave

Cheers!