Honest proclamation from Modern Times Beer

Discussion in 'US - West' started by sandiego67, Jan 16, 2013.

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  1. sandiego67

    sandiego67 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2008 California


    Our beer will not be brewed with the finest all-natural ingredients, nor will it be made by hand. These are meaningless clichés trotted out when a brand has nothing to say.
    Let’s take it one word at a time.
    What is gained by using “finest”? Nothing is gained. It cannot possibly make a positive impression on a single shopper. And the absence of “finest” does not lead one to assume that a product is made with shit ingredients.
    “All-natural” means nothing. It’s not even a phrase that was once meaningful that now means nothing, like “local.” The entire notion that some products are natural and others aren’t is absurd. At what point does processing make an ingredient “unnatural”? There is no meaningful answer to this question. Malt is processed. Whole leaf hops are processed. Your poop is processed.
    No one makes beer “by hand.” At a production brewery, hands might be used to open and close valves or turn on and off a pump, but under no circumstances are they better than the automated version. In fact, manual process controls lead to more mistakes, which leads to less consistent beer. And I have yet to hear anyone comment on a beer’s rough-hewn, handmade quality because it tasted different than the last batch.
    We will use whichever ingredients lead to the tastiest beer and the most efficient workflow, in that order. That might mean we use the cheapest malt, or it might mean we use the floor-malted heirloom shit imported from a castle on a scenic European river. It makes no difference to me.
    It only matters that the beer taste mind-bogglingly delicious, and I will use any tool available to reach that goal: downstream hop products, enzymes, Fermcap, whatever. I could not care less about tradition.
    In my ideal brewery, everything would be automated and our beer would be brewed and packaged and shot straight into your mouth by robots. It would taste better that way, which is the only thing that matters.
    ThePaleRider, MacNCheese and ZX6Chris like this.
  2. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    ISO: Beer Robot
    SageO, vurt and tyrsis like this.
  3. pmarlowe

    pmarlowe Meyvn (1,363) Nov 27, 2010 Virginia

    Cool story.
  4. vurt

    vurt Poo-Bah (1,647) Apr 11, 2004 Oregon

    Ad copy which tears into the tropes of other ad copy is still advertising. But if the beer is good, I will drink it.
  5. mrkrispy

    mrkrispy Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2006 California

    I fail to see the purpose of this post.
  6. MrFootstones

    MrFootstones Initiate (0) Aug 8, 2008 California

    The Mad Fermentationist has a hand in formulating their recipes. That's the aspect of their beer that piques my interest.
    afrokaze likes this.
  7. besaunders

    besaunders Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2007 California

    So, is sandiego67 Jacob McKean?
  8. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    It's an advertisment. You're not worthy, brah.
  9. Xul

    Xul Champion (854) May 18, 2008 California

    This x100. Jacob is doing a good job of getting the word out there and keeping the name in the news, but the only reason I'm following them more than I would any other new brewery (which is not much until they're actually open) is Mike's involvement on the recipe side.
  10. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    "our manifesto:

    we don't believe in manifestos. it should just be about the beer. i shall write a long public declaration of my intentions, objectives, and opinions on the matter."
  11. OldSock

    OldSock Zealot (570) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    Thanks! I'm hoping to be out there for a couple months after everything is installed and approved to make sure the stuff coming out of the brewery is better than my homebrew (not to mention procuring/filling/innoculating barrels of sour beer).

    Really happy with the way the beers are coming along so far. First test-batch of an IPA took 2nd of 42 last weekend at a local homebrewing competition. Citra/Amarillo Wheat and Coffee Stout are both pretty much where I want them, and the Hoppy Red/Rye and Amber IPA are really close too. Planning another batch of the session saison, and some other first-shots soon.
    DrAwkward82 likes this.
  12. robL

    robL Initiate (137) Oct 22, 2010 California

    In addition to Modern Times openness and social presence, what I find intriguing is their plan to provide recipes for all their beers and encourage homebrewers to clone their beer and bring in to compare it to the original at the brewery.

    I'm not a homebrewer, but if I were, I'd be seeking this place out and spreading the word based on this idea as well as Mike's involvement.
  13. UCLABrewN84

    UCLABrewN84 Initiate (0) Mar 18, 2010 California

    We will throw any shit into a pot as long as it yields tasty beer.
  14. TheBoog013

    TheBoog013 Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2011 California

    K... Slow clap?
  15. ModernTimesJacob

    ModernTimesJacob Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2012 California

    I think you're misunderstanding the post. I never said I don't believe in manifestos. My point was to call bullshit on a couple specific phrases that are used by craft brewers out of laziness. We can do better. We actually have things to say. We don't need to rely on these tropes.

    No. I posted once about Modern Times, and then I figured if people were interested, they'd find us on their own without me having to spam these boards.
  16. AptosBeerDrinker

    AptosBeerDrinker Initiate (0) Aug 9, 2011 California

    Let your beer do the talking.
  17. besaunders

    besaunders Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2007 California

    In that case, you need to muzzle one of your buddies. :slight_smile:
  18. DrAwkward82

    DrAwkward82 Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2005 California

    None of their points are incorrect. I'll be interested in trying their beer.
    domtronzero and nanobrew like this.
  19. ModernTimesJacob

    ModernTimesJacob Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2012 California

    Looks like this was the first time sandiego67 posted about Modern Times, so s/he's not exactly a biblical flood of promotional copy. People post this kind of thing all the time here.

    Beer doesn't talk; it's liquid. There are things to say about the process of making beer and starting a brewery, and clearly some people are interested. If you're not, that's fine, but I'll keep writing for the people who are.
  20. sandiego67

    sandiego67 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2008 California

    I've never met Jacob and wouldn't know him if I bumped into him on the street. I read the passage on their website and thought it was a funny/clever take on the fad of using certain marketing terms.

    If it is a problem, I will make sure to keep on script and only post mind altering topics like, "Which Alpine beer should I drink first?" and "Where is a good place to get local beer in San Diego?"
  21. ModernTimesJacob

    ModernTimesJacob Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2012 California

    "Mind altering" made me laugh.
  22. mrkrispy

    mrkrispy Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2006 California

    Or you could've just included some of this in your initial post and people wouldn't have thought it was a marketing/shill posting. Don't blame the rest of BA for your laziness.
    besaunders and domtronzero like this.
  23. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    I'm a Stone Rep, was I supposed to make that clear? I also own El Cajon Brewing.
    nanobrew, mrkrispy and domtronzero like this.
  24. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    when did it become that praising (hell, just mentioning) a brewery meant you had skin in the game with them. I didn't know Alpine, Societe, Alesmith, etc had sooo many employees
    pinkgrenade likes this.
  25. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    The best thing about ModernTimes is that it's located right behind the Body Shop stripclub. They had better get tap handles in there!
    pinkgrenade likes this.
  26. pinkgrenade

    pinkgrenade Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2011 California

    he was just trying to be helpful and share a blog post to some of us that don't get the newsletter! nothing about his initial post seemed like he was trying to speak for the company, just getting craft beer info out there!
  27. ModernTimesJacob

    ModernTimesJacob Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2012 California

    What Will Make Modern Times Different, Part 4

    I will not exploit or aggressively pitch to the online beer geek community. I will not use sock puppets to repost my own blog posts. I will not ask fans or employees to comment on BA without making their affiliation clear. I will not do anything shady or underhanded, at all.

    Now can we dial back the cynicism just a tiny bit? Can we just assume that if someone reposts or comments on something related to Modern Times, they did it on their own? I understand where the cynicism comes from because of all the stupidity around owners reviewing their own bottleshops or whatever, but just give me the benefit of the doubt here. I've been on BA a long time, and I know how to keep it kosher.
    3frog, beerific, Srsly and 6 others like this.
  28. mrkrispy

    mrkrispy Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2006 California

    I don't think anyone cares if this stuff is posted on BA. I think many people, like myself, are interested to hear in the progress of a new brewery especially ones with such openness. I am excited for Modern Times to open. However, if you are gonna be on BA you have to deal with all the ridiculous crap, the butthurt, the inanity, even the Red States unfortunately. If any member puts up a copy&pasted blog or marketing copy without offering an opinion then BA will naturally vet it, criticize it, be offended by it, and be excited by it. If said post or reaction reaches the pinnacle of insolence, douchbaggery, or hilarity it shall reach the BA Hall of Fame (if someone's wife doesn't destroy a plasma tv over it).
  29. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    You offend me. I'm going to hunt you down, break down your door and kick your cat in the balls.

    I don't even know what half your post means, but it offends me. I'm exciteably offended often and inanely butthurt frequently. I also hate bars that serve beer in chilled shaker glasses. They should be chilled tulip glasses!

    I do look forward to Modern Times Beers and kicking more cats in their tiny nutsatchels.
    afrokaze likes this.
  30. ModernTimesJacob

    ModernTimesJacob Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2012 California

    I know. I'm asking for special treatment. FT: Krunkles ISO: polite interactions on BA.
    DrAwkward82 likes this.
  31. mrkrispy

    mrkrispy Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2006 California

    lmao my cat doesn't have balls. Kick it in its hitler mustache perhaps?
  32. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    If the cat buys me a ModernTimesBeer (an MTB), then all can be forgiven. Unless the cat is planning genocide.

    Speaking of which, when is MT going to be open?
  33. jamvt

    jamvt Disciple (390) Aug 5, 2005 Massachusetts

    This just sounds dumb and ignorant.
  34. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    What are you referring to? The OP post and MTJ response or me kicking cats in the balls?
  35. ModernTimesJacob

    ModernTimesJacob Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2012 California

    Perhaps by summer, depending on 57 million variables.
  36. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    Ok, seems that even with all the help brewers give one another getting through the San Diego Planning dept and the State permit dept it takes forever to get every last kink worked out. The Evil Empire looks forward to your beers.
  37. jamvt

    jamvt Disciple (390) Aug 5, 2005 Massachusetts

    Initially I was just referring to the op post, but after reading more of the thread I guess I'm referring to all of it. It just seams like MtJ is dismissing what craft brewers before him have done. We're all aware that SNPA uses the phrases "finest ingredients" and "purest quality" on the label, which in my opinion is iconic. Just comes across to me as elitist and disrespectful. But whatever works for you I guess. Oh...disclaimer, I have no affiliation with Sierra Nevada.
  38. riko

    riko Initiate (114) Jan 18, 2008 California

    Given that Modern Times hasn't heated any water yet but is already taking swipes at AleSmith, Ballast Point, Lost Abbey and other local breweries that tout their "hand-forged" beers made with the "best ingredients" they can get, Modern Times might not get as much help from local breweries as you think, Mayor MacNCheese.
  39. ModernTimesJacob

    ModernTimesJacob Initiate (0) Apr 24, 2012 California

    Ha, this seems like a particularly thin-skinned reading of my post. I used to work at Stone, the case boxes of which use some of the language I refer to in the post. Somehow I don't think my dislike of certain marketing phrases will destroy my relationship with my former co-workers. And folks at AleSmith, Ballast Point, Societe, Stone, Coronado and many others have been and continue to be a huge and constant help in getting MTB up and running. Grown ups can agree to disagree without acting like vindictive middle school students.
    This also seems quite touchy. I'm not dismissing what other brewers have done, but I am saying I will not use "tradition" as an artificial impediment to technological progress. If new ingredients or technology make the beer taste better, or our process safer or more efficient, I will use it.

    For example, in Stan Hieronymous' new "Hops" book, James Ottolini from Schlafly tells a story about brewing AIPA with pellets instead of leaf hops. The beer was indistinguishable in blind taste tests, but some employees objected to using pellets because it was "different." So they stuck with leaf. That would not happen at MTB. We will use whatever works best, regardless of what others have done before us. That's not a dismissal of what others have done, just some insight into our ideology.

    Another point to consider is that many, many craft brewers use the same logic outlined in my post, they just aren't public about it. RR didn't mention that the Pliny's are brewed with hop extract until they were asked to go public about it by the supplier. Many excellent craft breweries use Fermcap and enzymes. I'm just saying there's no shame in using technology, and I'm going to be public about what we do.
  40. jamvt

    jamvt Disciple (390) Aug 5, 2005 Massachusetts

    Thanks for the history lesson.
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