Hoof Hearted

Discussion in 'US - Midwest' started by AlienSwineFlu, Oct 7, 2015.

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  1. PJ_

    PJ_ Initiate (152) Nov 13, 2014 Massachusetts

    Really liked the latest iterations of Musk and Blabe. Hopefully they can nail it down to that and keep them consistent.
    ohiobeer29 likes this.
  2. Beef_Curtains

    Beef_Curtains Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2013 Ohio

    If anyone in the Kent area is looking for a Hoof fix without the long drive, Taco Tantos gets kegs now. Tickling the Ivories on tap currently.
    tepie, Gregf51 and ODYSEYY like this.
  3. Mshull

    Mshull Disciple (384) Mar 26, 2013 Ohio

    Wow this cool news, wonder what their connection is
  4. Swettenham_Shire

    Swettenham_Shire Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2014 Ohio

    I appreciate a good cup of coffee as much as the next person, didn't enjoy what the brewpub had to offer. If people come back with rave reviews on the coffee beans, I'll gladly try it again. For the record, it was a fantastic idea for Hoof to make it available on Sunday. More variety (beer or merchandise) only enhances the brewery release experience.
    scubastza likes this.
  5. Beef_Curtains

    Beef_Curtains Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2013 Ohio

    They got an account with Hoof. One of the owners goes to releases and is friendly with the Hoof guys.
  6. PJ_

    PJ_ Initiate (152) Nov 13, 2014 Massachusetts

    Blabe leftover available for purchase next Sunday. First come first served per Instagram.
  7. gilligantrips

    gilligantrips Initiate (82) Jun 4, 2015 Ohio

    I doubt it'll be a problem to score some Blabe, given how few free tickets have been "sold". Does anyone have strong opinions on Sidepipin'? HH has been hitting some older brews out of the park lately and likely have done some tinkering.
  8. gilligantrips

    gilligantrips Initiate (82) Jun 4, 2015 Ohio

    FYI- saw a post in a Columbus Beer Facebook group about "Dancin' in the Ruins"... Probably extra sugar lying around for leftover yeast to eat. Put your cans in the fridge to be safe.


    Also, the brewpub has a dual-hopped "Did We Just Become Best Friends". I'm hoping this becomes like the EWS Series.

    JohnnyMc and Swettenham_Shire like this.
  9. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    Even though I didn't need any further validation for my theory that a lot of their beers are not done fermenting, this warms my cockles. This is one that finished up in the can and blew. Maybe they'll issue a recall. Samsung did when their phones went pop.

    I'm currently at Hoof, drinking " Best Friends" its total dry hopped wort too.
    Bonis, chrismattlin and Sabtos like this.
  10. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    I might need to reply again to prove I'm not a blind hater. Saizzurp with Guava and Passion fruit is pretty nice and We'll Do It Live is plenty drinkable, as always.
  11. ohiobeer29

    ohiobeer29 Defender (649) Feb 2, 2013 Ohio

    I had this same feeling drinking blabe and musk reminded me of homebrew I rushed to drink they were fine no bottle bombs but could tell the yeast was still active somewhat I'vr had a few cans already letting the other cans sit a few weeks to see how they are
  12. Keffa

    Keffa Defender (610) Jan 8, 2009 Ohio

    Leaving the yeast in suspension in the beer instead of filtering it out is kinda part of the whole "hazy hop bomb" thing that's popular right now.

    I mean, that and using oats/wheat and not doing a protein rest on it. But still...
  13. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Funny is I find some Hoof beers more aromatic and flavorful than many big NE brews, yet Hoof sometimes has more clarity. Now that I've had a couple Focal Bangers, which have been completely gloppy and chunky out of the can (I know, you're not supposed to but I think the reason for them requesting to drink out of the can is pretty obvious now), I'm even more impressed with what Hoof is doing. Focal looks like someone dropped a whole glob of bread dough in it, but Hoof beers are actually quite beautiful. I've also not been as impressed with the taste and aroma of Focal as the hype in my mind set me up for.
    VABA likes this.
  14. fiver29

    fiver29 Devotee (411) Sep 18, 2007 Ohio

    I've had some good Hoof beers and some so so. And they are supposed to be the same beer! When I get Blabe at different cannings and they look like and taste completely different that's a big problem. Consistency is the biggest issue I have for these guys. I won't be seeking out any more Hoof until they figure that out.

    Think about it. Would any other brewery out there not get shit for that? Head Hunter different every time? The Fat Heads honks out there would flip out! I don't get why Hoof honks are fine with this.

    I really want to like them on your level. I just can't with such inconsistency.
    chrismattlin and RyanMcFly1985 like this.
  15. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    lol I'm not fine with the consistency issues, but I don't not like their beer because of it.

    I think they make some of the best IPAs I've ever tasted, and some of their Belgian-style beers are pretty exceptional too. I've done side by sides with both styles with some other stellar or vaunted examples by other breweries and Hoof has won a lot of the time for me.

    Consistency is definitely an issue but I personally don't want them worrying about batch perfection and distracting them from doing what they're already doing, which is making some really killer brews. They work not only with a ton of hops, but are experimenting with yeasts in ways many breweries are not. I know they're not exactly doing wild ales, but some brewers actually prefer you review each batch of a beer differently from the next.

    I've gone back to my reviews a few times and noted differences in appearance, but flavors and aromas usually hit the same notes batch to batch, although I do still agree with you and think they are still dialing things in.
    fiver29 likes this.
  16. wildcatdotdotdot

    wildcatdotdotdot Initiate (102) Jul 22, 2014 Ohio

    Its a great point - interesting how people give them a break. I think its because people are still excited that we have a brewery in Ohio that is capable of making beers that compete with the NE hops that are all the rage now - which is proven by the trade value that hoof beers hold nationally. There isnt a great alternative, in other words. If headhunter was wildly inconsistent, I could find "suitable" alternatives from other breweries. When talking about a good batch of Hoof, there isnt much else available locally that has the same qualities.
    fiver29 likes this.
  17. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    Trade value does not scale evenly with quality of product. Hoof Hearted is a perfect example of this. Trade value hinges more on rarity and word of mouth. If the beers were really that great why would you want to send it away to someone?
  18. PJ_

    PJ_ Initiate (152) Nov 13, 2014 Massachusetts

    I really liked the last Musk and Blabe, and I'm happy that I got some of both but at one point the whole "This batch is great!" needs to stop. While that phrase is a good thing for the beer you paid for and you have in hand, it still reeks inconsistency. If you're "experimenting" then change the name. Call it pilot #1, #2 #3 or whatever because at the end it's NOT the same product you're advertising. Otherwise you're tricking your customer. And it's not about ingredients, it's about the end product. I remember somewhere in these forums people were bitching about a brewery changing ingredients without them changing the name of making a note of the label. The brewer came in and chimed in on the purpose of brewing a brand product being to reach consistency regardless of the ingredients used. If at the end you get the same flavor,look, and feel profile ... does it matter how they made it? Hoof is still far away from this point.
  19. wildcatdotdotdot

    wildcatdotdotdot Initiate (102) Jul 22, 2014 Ohio

    Why does anybody trade Trillium?! :grinning: - they want to try something different. I agree with you though, trade value often does not match quality.
    Sabtos likes this.
  20. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Are you really getting that drastic of variation though? Have you reviewed each beer then gone back and re-read your review while having the new batch?

    Ultimately they're dealing with living organisms, and yes while making a traditional IPA is pretty easy to do consistently, I think there is something to be said for the less-traditional IPA they are making at Hoof and the challenges that presents. They may not be the precise scientists that the folks at Trillium are, as we've seen with how Konkey Dong was not quite as phenomenal this time compared to last, but they're getting there.

    I know this is a little off topic but it might provide some insight to see and hear some brewers like Jeffrey Stuffings speak about batch variation and the brewing process.
  21. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    I don't know anything about brewing or how difficult it is to gain solid consistency, and I personally don't consider hazy (unfinished) IPAs a separate sub-style, but i think if what you say is true about how much more difficult these types of beers are to brew consistently then maybe Hoof isn't quite up to that challenge yet.

    "Oh it's a much harder type of beer to brew right" isn't an excuse that should be allowed to fly, especially when nearly their entire catalog of product is exhibiting the same wild inconsistencies.
    BigSpeen3436 and RyanMcFly1985 like this.
  22. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    I mean hey if it's unfinished as you say I'd rather have Hoof's brews than overly refined, "finished" IPAs that are crystal clear amber and exhibiting almost exclusively full on pine and bitterness. Although that's a subjective angle. But this style of beer is certainly finished. I've had a 3 month old South of Eleven that didn't fall off at all from the release, and a 2 month old Artaic that was still as shockingly delicious and nearly identical to day its one self--yet I've had IPAs by legendary and classic breweries that drastically changed over half that time.

    What we're seeing with this New England style IPA that's pretty much everywhere now is a certain level of freshness on these hops, in addition to lots of them, co-mingling with unique strains of yeast that help amplify and mimic the hop attributes. What's funny is some breweries like Jester King use aged hops, so they are already at a point where some would call it a futile task, but because of the Brett in their beers like Wytchmaker, the culture has a way of working with the hops to create and maintain a tropical hoppy aroma and flavor in a beer that could be 6 months or older.

    I do want Hoof's all star beers to be more reliably similar batch to batch, but I don't want them to sacrifice the amazing flavor, and especially aroma, their beers feature by trying to get there. Tree House regulars frequently discuss batch variation, and even recently we heard some Ohioians talk about some differentiation with Hop Juju. Thing is, though, I don't see Bay Staters beating up on Tree House them like I see us doing. It's good to be critical, but at what point does constructive become destructive? Even Alchemist got jumped on for Heady losing its luster for a good few months or longer, and then somehow 'got back on track.' The only brewery I've seen consistently nail this style is Trillium and really I haven't had enough of their stuff over the long term to definitively say so, but I've heard nothing but good things about their process of ramping production up and keeping the quality at a high level.

    I wonder if one other thing we're not considering this year is an unusual hop harvest with some breweries seeing late or light shipments of certain hops like Galaxy.
  23. PJ_

    PJ_ Initiate (152) Nov 13, 2014 Massachusetts

    Man it's hilarious how you just want HH to be Tree House so hard. Every time people critique something about Hoof... "Tree House does it that way". Long live the hype!
  24. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    When I say I've had HH beers that weren't "finished" I don't mean they just weren't "polished" I literally mean they weren't finished. I've had at least 2 from them that seemed like they weren't even done fermenting. The paint was still drying.

    That's way worse than simply being dialed in, working with what curveballs the harvest gave them or whatever euphemistic excuse.
    RyanMcFly1985 and ohiobeer29 like this.
  25. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Oh I do? Thanks for the insight, considering I don't even like TH as much as Hoof. Not sure what you're personal beef with me is. I really like what Hoof is doing but do also feel there is room for improvement. I'm just trying to have a discussion, not at all trying to shut down opinions that differ from mine or even talk down about an Ohio brewery.

    I've had a few that had quite a yeast bite to them, but it's been at least 6 months since then. More recent for you?
  26. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    As recent as yesterday. I went to the taproom. Did We Just Become Best Friends was like drinking an IPA out of the fermenter with another week or so yet to go (I have some experience with this, I've had several big time central Ohio IPAs right from the fermenter as well as bright tank but I'd rather not say what brewery on the forums, you could guess fairly easily though). It was carbonated just fine but it did not dry out enough and had a porridge, fermentable sugars, grain thing in the aroma and flavor.

    And the yeast bite thing you mention was very apparent in Dodging Invisible Rays, a Saison. It was good, but only in the fact that I like Saison yeast, because it was just Saison yeast in water.
    Sabtos likes this.
  27. invertalon

    invertalon Zealot (500) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio

    Currently in Boston/Portland and in the past three days have already made it to about ten breweries, most doing a ton of IPA's of course...

    Jacks Abby
    Lord HOBO
    Bissel Brothers
    Maine Beer Co
    Austin Street
    Night Shift

    Honestly, Hoof is as good or even better than many on the list. Trillium may be the one that is above/beyond though. Still have quite a few more stops this week, including Treehouse of course. Although I have had maybe a dozen of their beers already, so won't be anything really new.

    Many are "yeast bitey" and harsh, thing s that many people like to complain about with hoof. I think lately Hoof really has gotten more patient and the canned releases have fixed a lot of issues in the past. The brewpub may be a different story, I feel like the quality is not the same there in my experience (been there three times).

    On a side note, Hoof's collab with Austin Street was quite tasty.
    JohnnyMc and Sabtos like this.
  28. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Nice work man, enjoy! Trillium is my tops as well.
  29. fiver29

    fiver29 Devotee (411) Sep 18, 2007 Ohio

    I disagree with your notion that HH is sacrificing flavor and aroma in their beer "trying to get there." We wouldn't even be having this discussion if they brewed their beer with consistency and right every time. Saying this is a style (no it's not) that can afford inconsistency is flat out wrong. The IPA style whether you bastardize it and call it something else (New England style or whatever) make no difference. At the end of the day you are only as good as your product. And they don't make it right. No matter how good you think the different batches are.

    Just ask Coke or Pepsi about what consumers think about a different product from batch to batch. Yeah, it's pretty important.
    Cbusssted likes this.
  30. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    I wouldn't even mind batch variation if it was good each time. Just look at CBC. Back in 09 or so Bodhi and Creeper were quite different from where they are now. But CBC has had a definite goal in mind with each beer and the changes each recipe has undergone seem to have been aimed at that goal. And each noticeable stage in both of those beers' development have been very good nonetheless.

    There's batch variation that's an outcome of skilled, calculated brewing then there's the type of batch variation we see in lesser [newer] breweries.
    RyanMcFly1985 and Sabtos like this.
  31. Josbor11

    Josbor11 Initiate (0) Dec 21, 2013 Ohio

    It boggles my mind how much people argue about HH. It's a local business making some good beer. It's not all great but they have some gems. All breweries are like this. There is no reason to shit talk a local business that's simply making beer the way they want to make it. If you don't like hazy or "unfinished" IPAs then don't drink them and stop posting in a thread dedicated to news and updates about HH. It's pretty simple. Not every beer from every brewery is going to satisfy everyone. Drink what you like and pass on what you don't. This thread is nonstop beating a dead horse.
    ZombieGoose and Sabtos like this.
  32. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    They should change their name to Dead Horse.
  33. Josbor11

    Josbor11 Initiate (0) Dec 21, 2013 Ohio

    Or brew a new DIPA called "Are We There Yet?"
    #1913 Josbor11, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
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  34. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    I get it though guys. Some of you really like their beer, and I hope its for the right reasons, not because it'll land you some Trillium or whatever. And if you like it for the right reasons then good. I wish I could, that's why I still visit their beers every once in a while.

    Its just sad for me to see so many people claiming that all this flawed beer is OK and even desirable. I'm just slightly worried this beast will get more widespread.
    I mean I'm shocked to see no one here even has anything to say about that picture of several cans of their beer exploding.

    'Just keep it in the fridge until you're ready to ship it to New England Lol'.
    RyanMcFly1985 likes this.
  35. invertalon

    invertalon Zealot (500) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio

    Coke and Pepsi also use extremely controlled ingredients, many of which are synthetic I'm sure.

    Remember, beer is made with water, yeast, hops and malt. We all know this. Remember though that hops can vary with each harvest, as can malt. Yeast being a living organism can also work slightly differently even if using the same one. Many variables that are tough to control. Huge breweries can control better, yes, but for smaller breweries that is extremely expensive.

    I for one like the variation that occurs with these "live" products. I even get it in beers such as Fat Head's Head Hunter which can taste quite different batch to batch. It's not just Hoof and other "NE IPA" breweries.

    I know for a fact at Hoof when they rebrewed an identical beer, with no changes, the appearance was drastically different because the yeast behaved differently from the batch prior. While everybody blamed a change of recipe, it was just what that lot of yeast did in the beer. Dropped clear vs. lack of floccuation.

    In the end, it's just beer. Enjoy it, or not.
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  36. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Oh so close with the Are We Having Fun Yet? name.

    I heard a story from Jester King that they brewed one large batch, then had it sit in 3 separate tanks, and the same yeast was in all three, but they all behaved differently and produced varied results. All from the same brew day. They also see the performance of the yeast vary season to season.

    I won't even touch the soft drink comparison--but being able to produce Bud Lite on a massive scale is quite an accomplishment, but not one that I enjoy.

    I think whether New England IPA is a style is best left for another thread but I am firmly in the camp that it most certainly is its own style.

    I don't really think it's for you to say that Hoof doesn't make their beer right. You can choose not to buy it, but the finished product is ultimately what they intend it to be. I've experienced some oddities at the brewpub like @Cbusssted, but I haven't had any actual cans that were off in over 6 months, aside from one or two canned batches that were more or less intense than their previous iterations.

    Consistency is an issue that needs worked on, but all I mean to say is that I want them to be cautious, and I don't want them to achieve it at the detriment of the things that already make their beers great.
    I've never had a Hoof beer explode on me, and I've had a few for up to 3-4 months. I've never had any other beer explode on me for that matter, and I've had a few that were actually infected to a great degree. I've had a couple of gushers, but that's after opening. I've known people to have their beers explode on them, and in almost every case they were sitting in a car, or a garage, or some other less than optimal place.

    If Hoof's beer isn't even desirable to you, I really don't understand why you follow this thread. To make it as real as possible, for me personally, my IPA "desirability" list goes like this:

    1. Trillium
    2. Hoof Hearted
    3. Hill Farmstead
    4. Tired Hands

    Hoof is downright delicious to me, and quite a few other people too, for them to consistently have the crowds they do. Not everyone is trading all their beer, but this culture is the new normal across the country right now. If people were shitting all over the Jackie O's thread, there would be an all out war. There have been a few accusations of infected BB beers over the past month, and not a soul has even uttered the hint of requesting or demanding refunds. I'm glad we've managed to keep this civil, but this is definitely getting ridiculous.

    They have consistency issues, yes. And it seems the brewpub is still putting out too-young beers on draft. But it really goes no further than that.
    #1916 Sabtos, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
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  37. Cbusssted

    Cbusssted Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2012 Ohio

    Dude, in one post you say that Hoof's beers are released and have the outcome that the brewers intended, then say they have a consistency issue that needs worked on.

    I highly doubt they intended for their cans to explode.
  38. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (10,359) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Both can be true, and they are, in my opinion.

    And of course they didn't intend for their cans to explode. Are anyone else's cans exploding out there besides this one single social media post?
    VABA likes this.
  39. Beef_Curtains

    Beef_Curtains Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2013 Ohio

    Whoa, a tiny young brewery doesn't produce product with the consistency of Coke or Pepsi? Absolutely unacceptable! We should definitely stop supporting them even if we like their inconsistent beers.
    Keffa and Sabtos like this.
  40. fiver29

    fiver29 Devotee (411) Sep 18, 2007 Ohio

    You guys are funny. My Coke or Pepsi reference was aimed at consumer preferences. Not comparing how you make a soft drink to brewing beer. When you establish a brand consumers have certain expectations with that product or service. Pretty clear what most expectations are for this brewery.

    I follow this thread because I can. I hope they start making consistent product and I may buy it again. Yes, I also detect differences between Fat Heads or other local breweries as well. Hops that were available were used instead of another based on availability, or some other reason. That's fine. Releasing something that doesn't even remotely resemble the last iteration is a problem.

    I like this brewery. I've enjoyed some of their beers. I think I have higher expectations than most. I'm ok with that.
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