Hop Stand / Hop Whirlpooling with a Hop Spider

No experience with this, but my thought... If the hop spider keeps the hops relatively compacted, you'd probably get less utilization from the hops, just like in a boil.

 

I would use a 5 gallon strainer bag and let those hops move around as freely as possible inside the bag.

 

I do my stands/whirlpool with a hop spider. Works fine for me, I think I get great hop flavor in my IPAs.

 

You can stir the hops inside the spider a few times during the hop stand. This may cause some hop powder to release into the wort, but the particles aren't big enough to clog your chiller.

 

This is why I'm a big fan of hop extract, less hassle with knockout and no lost wort to absorption.

 

But you can't really dry hop with extract can you? Generally I've used and heard extracts used for bittering, not aroma. Thought they made extract with Magnum a lot of the time as well, which isn't really an aroma hop IMO.

I do hopstands in reusable muslin bags with good success.

 

I'm guessing he means there is less in the spider at end of boil if you use extract?

 

Yes .. or none. For my Brett Pale I don't even bother with hops in the boil, just hop extract for bittering and then just dry hop it cold otherwise the Brett seemingly mutates the hop character through fermentation.

If your bittering hop is 2oz , replacing with extract will be 2 oz less in the spider.

 

I use hop spider(s). First, extract is good ... but really only for bittering. For mid/late additions I use nylon paint strainer bags. But never more than two ounces per bag, and occasional stirring to keep the surface area exposed to the moving liquid. Then I circulate through a plate chiller (gravity) where the output goes to a pump which sends the wort back to the kettle. A little fabrication and the recirculating wort is blasting the hop bags. I'll do this for 15 - 30 minutes, just depends.

While some hop debris escapes the bag I've never had the plate chiller clog. A bazooka filter on the kettle pick-up helps filter some of the debris. There is some effort at the end of the brew day on cleaning the plate chiller, but no great aggravation.

Results: I use a lot of post-boil hops and I think this method gives great results. A couple of potential pitfalls: whirlpooling at too high a temp, too short a time, or hops past their prime. For the most part these problems can be overcome. My feedback from commercial brewers is extended whirlpooling is vital . . . although they all seem to have different approaches on time and technique. Of course this is equipment dependent, so you'll only learn what works best with lots of practice. I keep detailed notes on my whirlpool schedule for review when the beer is ready. Still in search of the perfect IPA . . .

 

If using a hop spider...use the largest hop bag you can find (paint strainer or larger)

 

Never had any issues with my spider. You might get an slightly less hop utilization, but it would be so insignificant- nothing I would worry over or change amounts for.

Agree that using a large bag is the way to go so the hops have plenty of room in the kettle to move around. I make my own silk bags and make them pretty close to the size of my kettle, plenty of room for hops to roam around during boil and whirlpool.

I also counter flow chill and let the beer recirculate over the hops in the spider before collecting in the fermentor.

I typically use a hop rocket in line also, never had an issue with not getting the hop flavor/aroma I wanted.

I'm thirsty for a hoppy beer now...

 

I got one of these recently: http://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Hop-Filter-4-x-10--300-micron-mesh_p_3180.html

I've only had the opportunity to use it once. It's a bit limited both in the amount of hops you can get in there, and probably the extent to which the wort contacts them.

 

I have tried it all, and you won't get the same results as going commando.

The filter @pweis909 linked, I've had for a couple years now, back before the guy was sellin it commercial. Works well, boil doesn't take place in the filter. Beers turned out fine, but always felt I was leaving something behind. It will muck up fast, drains slow, but I have put around 10 ounces in there once..

I normally go commando, and normally like to use whole hops, but my pumps aren't fond if that crap, so I looked else where.

My best luck these days, is to limit what I have going in the kettle. I normally bitter with some extract, and then I add my pellets to a bag, or whole leaf if not a ton, to the kettle free if it's a flameout/steep addition. I have a small tube pick up on the bottom edge of my kettle, so I sometimes get away with any debris in the tubing and pump. I recirculate it during the final min of the boil to purge the lines of any sanitizer, and to sanitize everything with hot wort. I then turn it off, and pack my hoprocket up with whole leaf hops usually. Rice hulls if I'm trying to filter the wort as well as possible.

I use some fine hop bags from MoreBeer. They are cheap, work well, tie to the sides, float and boil around really well, hold most of the debris in, and I can open them up easily and add another addition. I stick to 4 ounces or less in each bag and haven't had issues.
Pellets in there, leaf free, and leaf in my hopback to pack in what I may have lost during the hot whirlpool, and then more hops on the way to the fermenter after the chill.

Can't say I'm missing anythign anymore.

 

Most people whirlpool to keep some break material and a boat load of kettle hops out of the carboy. If you use a hop spider for your hops, then the only advantage of whirlpooling is keeping a little break material / trub out of the carboy. So just skip the whirlpool altogether and do a hop stand with your hop spider in there the whole time. Or use regular hop bags for your pre-flame out kettle additions, do a whirlpool, and then after your whirlpool and brief rest, place your hop spider with large flame out hop addition into the kettle at that point then do the long hop stand.

 

The 4x10 steel mesh baskets work very well as long as you don't overload them. I max the 4x10 out at 4-5oz. The mesh is larger than a hop bag. You can stir inside the basket. Utilization can't be less than hop bags based on physical dynamics unless you overload them or never stir.

The only downside I have seen is you "need" three of them for extra hoppy beers and realistically a minimum of two of them for more than 5oz in the kettle. I have two 4x10 and one 6x11. I can drop a pound of pellets in the kettle without clogging my plate chiller. If you never see yourself using a pound in the kettle, two baskets should be fine.

 

I need to start using bags during the boil. The particles can cause nasty bitter/astringent flavors if they make it into the beer. I always use bags for dry hopping but after reading this thread think I will also use during the boil.

 

Did you guys start out whirlpooling the old fashion way? With a spoon and some elbow/shoulder damage? This is what I do, but my immersion chiller totally gets in the way.

I always have what appears to be a mixture of hot break and cold break in my carboys, but I have still been trying to get a GREAT tasting beer and have yet focused on clarity. Does break material affect taste? Or simply appearance?