How do we grow BeerAdvocate internationally?

1. I use BA for checking the US beer scene, to keep me up-todate
I usually just read, so i might appear to be inactive.
2. Think you answered that yourself in your mail, BA is US-centric.
3. Is kind of a big question and i can only answer for myself
But if you ask me, you need to be more into what happends in the different countries.
I realize as well as anyone, that you cant cover the entire globe.

So my suggestion would be to affiliate yourself with people who is active in the countries you like to cover.

Cheers

 

1. If you solely use BA, but you're not overly active, why? - I use many other forums tbh. Both via sign ups, social media and via contacts. I have to be honest that I don't tend to read the majority of BA news
2. If you use other platforms over BA, why? - I prefer a wider context rather than an America-Centric one. I'm also sceptical that almost 100% of the beer reviews are rated so highly and are almost always US-based. I judge beer internationally, worked for a brewery and regularly taste beers that are far from outstanding. I judged a few weeks ago and some of the beers were faulted and even not within style parameters which is not unusual I'm afraid
3. How do we encourage more international sign ups and engagement? More internationally-focussed news which may mean relying on copy from overseas, more reviews from overseas, especially from emerging beer markets.

 

1. Traditionally I have used BA to for checking best Belgian beer brand, however I see that mostly the beers available in USA are reviewed
2. I could suggest that you probably provide some kind of community rewards system for international users who can provide more and more reviews etc on the local beer brands
3. Alternatively if possible you can organize beer fests in countries like India where it might be hugely popular and endorse your brand there

 

I'm spit-balling here.
How about offering incentives to non-US members who recruit new members from their home countries. Maybe start with Canada, offer free Society membership to those who recruit 10 new members. Maybe offer BA gear as prizes.

Cheers.

 

Hi Todd! Glad that BA is looking to become more active in this other side of the pond.

I guess that are two separate things to address on the first two questions, one being the depth of beer reviews and the other being the forum activity itself.

Regarding the beer reviews, the impact on user activity comes from how the platform itself is designed: it's very different to support by default a minimal review from a user (like Untappd) or to expect a descriptive text from a user (like BeerAdvocate or RateBeer). The former takes seconds and the latter needs more effort and input, but in the end is much more rewarding as someone who's trying to learn about beer.

To provide my example/answer: I've been an active user simultaneously for years of Untappd (since 2014) and BeerAdvocate (since 2012). On Untappd I track the beers I have while I'm having them. When I get back home, I try to come up with the best review possible from the new beers I have checked into on Untappd. Unless I'm having a beer alone, Untappd will always be the first platform I interact with.

Regarding the forum activity, I guess the that main problem is the difficulty for some beers and other beer related things to travel to the EU. I mean, the forum is filled of people talking about so many incredible beers that are already hard to get in the USA, let alone in Europe. And just to let you know, this isn't just applicable to your regular "whales" or limited edition beers. I'm a user of this brilliant website for a long time now and I have never had a single beer from 3Floyds, just to provide an example. So one ends up feeling left out with no ability to find a space to have a conversation with people alike (that have the same limitations in beer accessibility).

Craft beer is local by default and it's that characteristic that doesn't allow the forum to grow naturally out of the US. The conversations end up being too local and many europeans just feel left out (at least that's my opinion). I'm still interested in participating in the forum but I can easily understand someone who doesn't.

Hope that helps.

 

My humble opinion:

1- Because I feel my know-how of beer is somewhat limited compared to other reviews. Don't want to seem like a newb.
2- No mobile app, I don't want to open a website, find the beer and rate it using a web interface
3- Mobile app, much more detailed statistics about beer (per country, region, per year, etc), more pre-defined criteria, and maybe in the form of "dark colour -> light colour" where you don't put a value but your overall feel.

Also, most of the content doesn't match what the market offers here in Portugal, maybe create country-specific areas with "local advocates" to engage with the local scene.

 

1. If you solely use BA, but you're not overly active, why?
2. If you use other platforms over BA, why?
3. How do we encourage more international sign ups and engagement?

1. I use BA when I travel to another city or another country to know where I can have a good beer. I try to give feedback on the places I have visited. Unfortunatly because of helath problems I cannot drink any alcohol right know but I hope can again in a year.
2. No I don't
3. Well, that is not easy, I can't remember how I found BA, but maybe with some articles or advertisements in other beer magazines or forums

 

It's time to include beers which are brewed with sugars instead of malt or grains to make them gluten-zero e.g. sulzbachers.com

 

1. If you solely use BA, but you're not overly active, why? I only use BA as a guide when I travel to US and have the chance to try local options.
2. If you use other platforms over BA, why? I use Untappd because of the ease of having a mobile app.
3. How do we encourage more international sign ups and engagement? I think having options to see beers by country would encourage local use and reviews.

 

I moved back to the states but I'll still answer from when I lived in Ireland.

1. I was more active over there to help get some awareness about craft beer there.

2. The other platform I use now I use because it has a Map function and I can rate a brewery overall.

3. Id try to reach out to US Breweries who collaborate with international breweries to encourage their customers to rate that beer then hopefully it takes off from there.

 

I'm not the target audience here but do have some questions for people who have gone overseas and experienced beer culture in other locales. @Domingo @hopfenunmaltz, etc. I feel like. As Americans, we have this tendancy towards acting like something, in this instance beer, is a brand new invention that didnt exist prior to our involvement in it. We also have a tendancy to get deeply involved in these things for a short time, and then become quickly bored with the something we are into at the time. Over the course of my time here I would say I have seen so many participants in our forums come and go while exhibiting this frantic behavior. My question is this, is Beer Advocate merely US centric for these reasons? Do we not see international use rise because outside of the US beer drinkers do not need to define their lives through beer? It may be a cultural boundary that BA could never breach. Maybe I am crazy and this has nothing to do with the issues at hand.

 

The beer karma system gives you points and ranks you up as you contribute more to the site. If you want to see more local beer reviews or places you might have to be the one to create them. The more ratings and reviews you make the more beer karma points you will get and you will rank up in status on the site and move up from being an initiate. Another benefit is local people looking up beers that you've had or places you've been or are looking for some good ones will see your contributions.

We have local forums where you can see threads created from people in your region and participate in those or create a new thread if you'd like. The more participation the more you get from this site I've found.

some local forums if you haven't been: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/forums/europe.20/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/craft-beer-in-southern-portugal.629851/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/lisbon-possibly-other-portugal-beer-spots.581506/ (closed)

You can look at the "Top Rated Beers" by country right now and a country's beer directory.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/top-rated/mx/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/place/directory/7/MX/

I was also thinking rewards might have something to do with it. Maybe people in other countries don't care about getting points for being on a website, but then again Untappd has the badge reward system that people seem to like. I'm not a fan of that though.

 

Hi Todd,

1. I'm like most users, I read a lot of the material and search beers or breweries often but I don't comment much at all. I don't use BA as the only platform mostly because it really lacks Canadian content.

2. I use Untapped a fair bit but it's lacking in some content also so it's great to have other options.

3. I'm not sure how to encourage more international sign ups but if there was a greater presence in other countries that would be a start. Maybe a rotating monthly feature on what's new in other countries could make for good info and reading?

Thanks for the opportunity to chime in.
Trev.

 

OK, a UK view.

Given the rapid change and fluidity in the beer industry, maintaining multiple sites doesn't help. If I need US info, I have to trawl Beer Advocate, BeerMe and Ratebeer plus plus and then try and make sense of what the current information is. Very few people are updating all the main sources and tend to stick with their favourite which means info is often out-of-date. Then add in multiple sites for each country, and the whole thing becomes unmanageable and unhelpful. Never was a "single source of truth" more needed. I know Ratebeer have local country editors but they are working against established operations in each country. Looking at BA/BM/RB entries for UK you get a very sketchy picture of the beer scene in the UK and I don't think there's anything you could do to improve this significantly as UK effort is put into a few specific sites such as Quaffale and CAMRA's Whatpub.

I guess the only "pan-national" database need is for beer scoring but, again, there are at least 3-4 competitors which, quite often, don't agree ;-) My impression is scoring is much more important in the US whereas in the UK we are more interested in accurate info on beers, breweries and bars.

Ideally everyone could agree a single definitive source within each country which would allow information and scare support resources to be focussed on maintaining an accurate and up-to-date resource.

However, I can't see this happening :-(

From my point of view, I need a resource that tells me about what brewers and beers are out there (and tip me off about fake brewers and brands) and tells me where I can get them. I tend to make my own mind up about the beer but, where there too much choice, scoring can point me in the right direction. But even finding the definitive resources for each country is difficult.

Not sure this ramble is going to help!

Cheers

Mark

 

I am not an international user but can make some educated guesses as to the low user percentages from outside of the US.

1. As a US based person I have no idea if there is a craft beer scene in other countries that I would associate with having some sort of beer culture (i.e. Germany, Belgium, UK, and maybe Canada?). Most of the imports I buy from the above countries are what I would call traditional beer styles from those countries and even then I have no real idea as to whether those are macro or craft businesses.
2. If there is a craft beer scene/culture in international companies, it's certainly not written/published/communicated on here.

If the goal is to get international users to care about craft beer and there isn't a craft beer presence then that's going to be really difficult to get people to come here to discuss craft beer. It'd be like asking people in Europe or South America why they aren't discussing the Ford F350 on fordf350forums.com

 

I think that's definitely part of it in some places. In the parts of Europe I've spent the most time, beer seems like it's more ingrained in the culture. People don't think about what's new and what's "the best," they just get what they like. They know what they enjoy vs. what they don't and that's as far as it goes. Most of the options are good and predictable, so they don't have to think about things. Because of that, there's minimal desire to put a score next to something or compare it to something else. More along the lines of "Augustiner is my favorite, but Hofbrau and Hacker-Pschorr are also good. I don't care for altbier." Or, "I like sweetened kriek and dubbels, but oude gueze is too tart for me." That's opposed to giving each one a numerical score and pitting their characteristics directly against one another. There is also less of of a bigger/better/faster/more mentality since their beer cultures aren't coming from ground zero like we did in the US. People order what they want rather than simply what's new.

That's VERY general and there are absolutely exceptions, but I think that it's cultural. American beer hit rock bottom in the 70's and 80's and rebounded thanks to a lot of boundary pushing and guts. Competitions and comparisons pushed things forward. Other markets might have had similar revivals and rebirths, but things aren't the same even if they look similar. Without going in circles, Stone Berlin comes to mind. Even when things look kinda similar...they aren't necessarily.

 

I'll echo this and add that my sense is that the European drinking experience is more about the people you're with, rather than what's actually being drunk. The beer is simply the facilitator of conversation at the gathering, rather than being the subject of that conversation.

There is of course a lot of local pride, too, and many people there are simply set in their ways. I was once at a pub in Vienna and asked some of the gentlemen I was sitting with about what they thought of their beer, to which one of them emphatically said, "Austrian beer is the best in the world!" While I'm not entirely sure of the truth of that statement, it does show that beer has close national or even regional ties.

 

Related to that, I've also heard similar statements in Germany. I can never tell if it's totally in jest, but I think there's some humor to it. In Bamberg, I told a guy that I was about to head back to Munich the next day. He warned me that "The beer in Munchen is terrible, - you shouldn't drink there." In Munich I've mentioned Rothaus and Jever and been told "Why would you drink those? The best beers are from here." In fact, ordering pilsner in general in that region will often get you a playful scolding. Mentioning American beer produces interesting reactions. A lot of people think of Miller and Bud and don't necessarily know much else. Others are aware of the major craft brands and generally seemed to approve...or at least not overtly disapprove. Not being from there, I don't totally get it. I think the regional pride sentiment is partially kidding, but with some truth behind it.

In Belgium (which I've spent FAR less time in), people seemed to be very aware of American beers and American beer tourism. A lot of that is based on where I went, though. Experiences in small towns probably differ greatly.

 

Its been mentioned in the talk around the "places" feature before but I think it could help cater to international folks as well, having local/regional "editors" or "experts" that could be tagged as such and maintain specific threads for the regions.

I imagine they could be pulled from active local users and asked to engage with new/occasional users to encourage engagement. Specifically in the international context they could host style tastings tailored to their area as a way to engage folks and induce new beer additions to the data base (which might also aquaint some folks with the ability to add to the data base)

 

I hope the effort succeeds. More interaction of folks with differing beer cultures and experiences can't help but be a good thing. I certainly will be more aware of being as welcoming as possible anytime I have encounters here with beer friends from outside the United States. Will be following this thread to see if there are other things that us American BA's can do to help with this effort.

 

I think it's great that you're trying to reach out and expand your audience—it has the potential to enrich the site in so many ways.

Not sure if this is possible on the technical side, but if the site could be set up in such a way that people connecting to BA from other areas of the world were automatically sent directly to the forum for their region (based on language, or IP address, or whatever), that might increase global traffic. I'm just thinking about how I first found BA—like everything else, my guess is it probably started with a Google search. If I'd searched for "beer" back in 2010 and been directed to a site in Swedish or Swahili, I probably wouldn't have hung around for very long. Make it easier for people to find their local community on this global site, and they might find it more welcoming.

 

I have been building enterprise software for over 20 years. It's about localization. Otherwise, you are just pissing into the wind and will get little to no adoption.

 

I can't see the problem, one thing common to everyone here, we love beer and trying new ones. Here in the UK we had a near miss, in the 1970s the breweries were trying to sell us pasteurised, re-fizzed crap, thankfully some breweries, mainly local ones, kept proper beers and CAMRA ( Campaign for Real Ale ) helped to promote them. These days we have a much wider choice of beers in both the pubs and shops. Only problem is what we used to call Real Ale is now Craft Beer which puts the price up. I blame you lot for that. Happy drinking

 

It is indeed great that you directly reach out to us overseas users. I have to admit I have not been very active, and mostly just read the often very detailed reviews. These are in my view the major strength of BA, a written review is far more infomative than a simple rating. Often I do not agree with a rating, but can read in the review that this comes down to a difference in taste, not quality. Therefore I do prefer BA from other platforms. But certainly it also takes more effort to compose a review.
Anyway, what I believe is hindering the spread of BA in Europe most is the few European craft beers ratings, and the lack of availability of many excellent American beers here. Most European ratings are on rather large company beers, which are of little interest to Europeans who can get these in any shop around the corner. This would change with the involvement of more European users, for sure.
The beer culture here in Germany is also very different from the US. I may exaggerate a little, but there is virtually no overlap in interest and very little talk between the grumpy traditionalists, who stick to their (often major) pilsner brand to the end and cringe at the mere mention of things like fruit beers and cold hopping, and the often eloquent hipsters of the craft beer scene on the eternal quest for new tastes.
The other issue is certainly the availability of American beers, which are still the core of BA. Sure, one can easily get the beers from Sierra Nevada, Stone, Brooklyn and SteamWorks (yeah, I know that one is Canadian) and a few others. But these are mostly license brews with European breweries and many other excellent beers (those of Bell's in particular) reach this continent seemingly only in private luggage. Then again, even the smaller European brands can be hard to get if they are from another country than the one you are standing in while looking for them. The question then is of course what could BA do about this... But, you asked about my views and here they are.

 

I learned about beer all across Europe many decades ago. I am still impressed with the places we visited, the beers we savored, and the folks that took us in like family.
After many fits and starts here in America, the early 00s saw a general upheaval in all things brewing. It's the unfortunate arrogant attitude that American beer is now the best on earth that puts off people from everywhere, including a great number of Americans. I also learned many years ago that many northern Europeans know the English language better than many Americans. Just some of my thoughts and experiences.

 

Dropping the "American" (or English or German) in the beer style name when it is not necessary (in most cases in my opinion).

 

I think its fair to say that few would be overly interested in reading about brews that cannot be found and tasted. Here in Australia we have access to numerous reviews about new local brews and breweries etc and much of this can be sourced locally. Likewise how many Americans are interested in reading reviews about Red Hill Brewery beers, or Mornington Peninsula beers, or those of Holgate or Murray's etc etc (all local). I myself have access to a good degree of American craft beer but this is only a portion of those available obviously.

 

@SFACRKnight I have no idea. Something that works in the US can bomb in Germany. Case in point.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2006/jul/28/retail.money

 

That's great to hear and I wish I could try some of them!

 

Well, I have been a member here since 2015 and this is my first post!

I think it is a very difficult task as many have pointed out. You need "regional" contributors to discuss beers that are actually obtainable to those from other countries. I know there are/were a few guys using and contributing to BA from my country (the last time I looked).

I generally just read BA when something pops up in a Google search when I search for something specific.

I don't think the US guys realise how big and diverse the craft scene is in the rest of the world. Even in my part of the world we have a fairly decent scene with lots of great breweries (and some not )

I were in London two years ago and the scene there is really great. Look up Verdant Brewing company just to mention one. In Amsterdam you get a lot of US beers actually, which was great as I had the opportunity to try a good few US "well-know" beers like 90 minute, Two hearted, etc. Their local scene is also great.

My opinion is that it will take a huge effort to really get into international regions and I am not sure that there is a business case for it.

 

The craft beer scene in South Africa is huge and growing. Not only that, there is a really good public interest in home brewing. I personally know 4 or 5 people who are currently brewing their own. A friend and I share brew day pics, talk about our beer recipes and specs, and brag about equipment, and it inspires me. It would be great to relate to people from the same country who have access to the same ingredients as me, to share ideas and to brag about our brew which is "better than everyone else's".

So a forum area with specific regions might be nice, and perhaps sub forums per region in that. What would be quite cool about that (when the pandemic allows travel again) is for people traveling to a region to be able to ask advice on where to find a decent microbrewery close to where they'll be going, and which beers to look out for.

 

I think a good start for any international posters would be to take a seat at the virtual bar in any of the "What Beer Are You Drinking Now?" threads. It's a very low-key, easy way to participate & see what's going on here and let us know what's going on in their place. Post a video of a performer you like.

@QuakeAttack, great suggestion. I too have been involved in enterprise software development for over 20 years, and spent a few years of that tenure supporting product translation...you got me thinking.

If this site had a locale setting, and auto-detection to translate posts on the fly, that'd be bomb-diggity.

So, for static site content, like a product release, sure. No problem. I think there's many idiomatic grammar structures which could cause inaccurate (possibly offensive) translations of free-form, dynamic user entry.

I could foresee a moderation issue if the language is not fluently understood by a moderator.

 

As an American, I love reading forum posts from our international friends. Love to hear about the beer culture from other lands. Although I love the fact that American craft culture has drastically expanded and improved over the decades, I still hope that most of the world brewers continue to tweak their local traditional brews vs abandoning them to promote American craft beers (i.e. I would hate to travel to Belgium to see more NEIPAs and fruited kettle sours on tap at a local pub than lambics, saisons and Gueze And witbiers etc.

 

A good idea would be to organize a Beer Advocate Festival outside the US (with both US and local breweries). It would be great to have one of those in Chile.

There are a ton of beer fests in Chile but they are more European in style (as I've been told). You pay admission, there are bands and there is beer to be bought (50 or more breweries usually). The styles you encounter are the ones that are amenable to drink in 500ml or liter steins. A US style beer fest, with some high octane beers, would be a nice change of pace.

Also, the new proposed changes of making reviews mandatory is a good way to not grow BA internationally. In Chile only about 10% (being generous) of people speak English and I'm sure it is similar (maybe not to the same degree) in other countries as well.

 

Ratebeer seems to have a solid amount of international raters. Is it due to having country editors, and what are country editors exactly?

 

Just share the site man your doing well on Google it's the first thing you see for beer reviews. Idk branch off on social media.
its the first I would do to advertise your site and get more traffic

 

I can explain the situation for Belgium

As U said yourself, BA is US-centric so most beers that are discussed are not available in Belgium and I guess that we already know R local beers. You get fed up about reading that this and that beer are top notch without ever having the chance to taste it yourself. Most (not to say all) US based beershops will not send overseas because of US regulations (at least, that's what they tell me) and the prices for the 'giants' ... Well, there are other options for that price (like a nice wee little dram) that are more easily available over here. I must say that I met a lot of nice people through BA and we did our fair share of trading but this consumes a lot of time and effort.

I guess, like me, most of us here in Belgium enjoy our beers at home because most pubs will not sell craft beers. And the minority that does, well ... I already mentioned the price tag a few lines above.

So, dear Todd ... In my honest opinion, you have a good website that is used as a reference by US based beer lovers & for those 'foreigners' that would like an insight on US craft beer. Stick to your guns and keep reviewing those US craft beers for us.

 

1. I tend to lurk in the background. I enjoy reading about US Beers and subscribed to the magazine from the beginning. I visit the US two or three times a year or did before COVID 19 and like to be up to date. My old Beer Advocate T Shirt was always a good conversation starter either here in the UK or in the US. I tend to use Untappd for short reviews rather than the more in depth BA reviews. I use BA’s City Guides if I’m visiting somewhere new.

2. untappd is easy to use and easy to rate beers on and as the social media aspect, I tend to use Rate Beer also for its “Places” pub/ bar ratings. As you’ve stated BA is very US centric but there’s nothing wrong with that, US beers are why I joined BA in the first place.

3. Have non US home pages, more foreign language items. Form partnerships with European Consumer groups such as CAMRA, and craft beer Brewers & distributors like Beer52, Beer Wulf, Honestbrew etc. Raise your social media presence on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc and publicise your app more.