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Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by elNopalero, Mar 3, 2020.
Hey hey hey...everyone knows the moon is made of cheddar
What power grab? There's no secret cabal. Jeez. Tax cut scams for the wealthy and corporations that end up in offshore bank accounts aren't some big secret. The K shaped recovery isn't a secret. Working class conservatives bought into trickle down economics, even though most economists heartily disagree and promote moving money into the hands of poor/working class people who immediately spend it on necessities and maybe even a "want" or two, in turn driving the economy which is all about consumer spending nowadays (like bars and breweries), that's not what the Senate/president want now, and not what GW Bush wanted, or Reagan.
You don't need conspiracy theories and black helicopters. This silliness distracts from actually pushing workable solutions that can reduce death and economic hardships especially in the service industry. That said, I don't personally worry as much about individual bad decisions, I expect those. But I'm troubled that those with real power won't make the necessary decisions to mitigate won't out of a healthy mix of malice (see McConnell not wanting to bail out states, which makes governors feel pressure to keep open businesses to generate tax revenue) to ignorance. But again, that's a confluence of political calculations decades in the making in the open, not a secret illuminati conspiracy at the UN to TAKE UR RIGHTS AND INSTALL A SOCIALIST BLM MARXIST COMMUNE BASED SOCIETY.
Just a lot of bad actors putting people in the ground and many of our favorite bars underwater.
There's constantly power grabs happening. Hurricane? There's a power grab. Earthquake? Power grab. Olympics coming to your city? Power grab. The pandemic is no different. But just because there are people jockeying to use the pandemic as an opportunity to push their agenda it doesn't mean there is a global conspiracy that's going to make it happen. And just as there will be people who try to use the pandemic as a reason to regulate capitalism, there will be other people who try to use it as a reason to unregulate capitalism. It's called an argument about economic structures and rules and, in my opinion, it's an important argument to have. Societies that think they have figured out the perfect way to organize a community are societies that fail. You need to be able to examine the rules you play by and re-think them. Also, to think that the WEF and Al Gore have the power to shift global economic structures is, in my opinion, a bit naive. I'd say the Walmarts, CVSs, Berkshire Hathaways, Amazons, Apples, etc. have a lot more power. You may want to concern yourself a bit more with how they seize opportunities to grab power and profits.
I’m well stocked with science, facts, and reality. I do have beer and food right now too though.
I’ve been following trusted medical experts and scientists who use models to predict how this pandemic was going to unfold. So far there’s been nothing that surprising.
It was always going to be a 1 - 2 year ordeal, with the first wave in the spring, easing of cases in the summer, and a worse second wave in the fall/winter.
I’ve found it comforting that I’ve been able to read from trusted fact-based resources since March and none of this has caught me off guard. Then again I also work in BioPharm so I probably read more fact than opinion by default.
I haven’t personally experienced the spoils of the trickledown, but at this point there should be an absolute deluge coming any day.
I’m almost certain Ohio is going to shut down again next week. Our daily cases have been topping themselves the past few days by almost 1,000 more than the previous day, even though “the rate of testing hasn’t really increased or decreased” according to gov. DeWine.
I feel really badly for all my friends who are part of businesses that probably won’t make it out of this second round if it happens. This is how it goes when people don’t want to be compliant and have no regard for anything, no common sense, or any self-awareness whatsoever.
Is wearing a mask as big of a problem in countries besides the US? I can’t imagine a more developed culture having issues with such shameless pride and inconsideration of others.
I think a major part of it is we are damn spoiled here and most dont really appreciate it. Society has been on an upward trend towards "me" and "I" for quite some time. With all the freedoms we have available placing a piece of cloth over your face should not be considered a violation of one of those. In reality we wouldnt be where we are today if not for the huge sacrifices made by people in the past. During both world wars people were called from their daily lives to factories to build arms, uniforms and rations etc. Margarine and American cheese were invented because we needed supplies for our young men that were sacrificing their lives. You trained and started a job you never had experience in and you got up every morning and took pride in the fact you were building our country stronger and supporting our troops to defeat the enemy. This is why we are where we are today. Sacrifice. We would have been defeated if not for that. A piece of cloth over the mouth and nose- whether you believe it or not- seems ridiculous not to adhere to and complain about by saying its taking your freedom away. Honestly its insulting to people that did so much to keep them in the past.
My friend had a slippery relationship with known truths but was casual everywhere else, to just make shit up out of small varmints of garments.
Yeah, but again, as much as I hate the bar owner overfilling their establishment, or the fools storming the field at Notre Dame, the difference is unlike in WW2 there is no central leadership. People went along with rationing, sure. But it was imposed by the government. It wasn't really a choice. So for me it's more the president of Notre Dame (who got COVID at the ridiculous Barrett party with Trump) who has all this power to keep the students out of the stands, and instead wants that sweet revenue and good look on TV and didn't want to have to challenge football fans. It's selfish, lazy, and an utter lack of leadership. Trump? Mcconnell? The entire Republican party? It's so beyond the scope of this forum I won't bother highlighting the myriad failures in leadership and crisis management.
Basically FDR was a lot better at this than Trump. Well except the whole japanese internment camp issue, which if anything is proof of how quickly, even for the so called "greatest generation," conspiracy theories, xenophobia, and racism were all too easy in a time of crisis.
Honestly, given senator toomey (Republican) saying no state aid will happen on his watch in any relief bill (and he's a supposed moderate) I think it's safe to say we're going to keep on the path of doing half measures at best, which is only dragging suffering out. No state will readily shut down given huge budget shortfalls already and no rescue in site. So we'll get more nonsense in NJ like bars closed at 10pm, when the bars and indoor dining should be closed and both the state and businesses should be getting a bailout from the federal government.
It might not be as big a problem as in the States, but mask-wearing is definitely an issue here in Germany as well. There is simply a subset of the population that doesn't take this seriously and not wearing a mask is a form of civil disobedience. I can kind of understand that. If you don't know anyone who has had it, then all of these restrictions can seem kind of insane. A massive overreach for a problem that (from their perspective) doesn't really exist.
I see things differently, because I am acquainted with 4 people right now who currently have it, and it is no joke. So to us it is not, and never has been, some theoretical thing; it is quite real. Thus, a mask seems rather a minor concession.
For me it is even more bizarre, since I worked a job at one time that protection was necessary, and it paid decent. I wonder how many people would wear a mask for 22.00 an hour (1980's money) who refuse to wear one now for a pandemic?
And restrictions going back in place this weekend, alcohol curfew at 10pm and reduced number of people at an area from 250 to 25.
Seems like not a lot. Never seen a construction worker with one. No landscapers with em. Can’t really speak for any other occupations within four walls. I wear one 40+ hours a week. It’s not a problem for me. Just like any unexpected change, you get used to it if you bear with it. I’ve gotten used to years of “10,000 alarm bells” tinnitus as a 20-something, I’m sure many of the anti-maskers have been through some form of chronic hell, a cloth on the face should be easy as pie for them.
At least half the people on my interstate project where them... not just the inspectors, but many operators and laborers wear them all day.
And have been... though we’ve just finally had an outbreak on our site so even more folks are wearing them now.
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel.
— Patrick Henry June 5, 1778
In part (a very large part), here's how it's impacting mine:
Travel: CT, a Red Zone State, to MA.
Prep: CV19 Rapid Test, submitted Travel Report to MA.
Report requires destination, time, but not purpose.
Had everything on hand: NEG result on paper;
form on iPad. NO CHECKPOINT at border,
Sturbridge nor Springfield.
Result: BEER. Lots of delicious beer. Brewery has
crowd control. Processing thoughtful, organized.
Caveat: CV19 Rapid Testing has gone By Appointment.
July, walk-ins allowed and results within a half-hour.
Now, the app't wait can be upward of two days and
results within an hour. Website experience for app'ts
for this consumer were POOR. Dead links, etc.
Lost two hours of my life.
Bottom Line: GET TESTED. Thank You.
As they used to say,
"If you've got the time, we've got the beer."
Sometimes they don’t even try to hide it.
So, I take it from your opposition to this that you are in favor of "extreme poverty, inequality, and climate change"?
No I’m a fan of the government not f****** with my shit.
Sorry but margarine was invented nearly a century earlier by the French to feed their armies.
That's interesting, because I don't recall Trudeau mentioning that he was going to f*** with any of your sh*t. Unless your sh*t is "extreme poverty, inequality, and climate change." And if it is, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a fan of the government f***ing with that sort of sh*t.
Believe it or not, all of this sh*t affects craft beer. Climate change affects hop yields and flavor profiles as well as the cost of water for breweries. Economic inequality means many of our favorite pubs/breweries have no safety net when an economic shock happens (like this pandemic). Unfortunately, your sh*t affects all of us. I'd prefer someone clean it up.
On a positive note another drug manufacturer released a statement saying that their vaccine is hitting at 94.7 % effective, the first manufacture claimed they hit 90%. Dr Fauci said he’d be happy if they hit 70%, so if these trials hold true it’s quite amazing. What I didn’t see is if it’s a one shot does all, or does it need yearly booster shots like for the Flu. First in line should be the military, healthcare workers, geriatric patients, then the general population. Make Congress go last, bunch of fucking bums.
It's two shots a little under a month apart, then 2-3 weeks to immunity after the second if I'm not mistaken. However, nobody knows the length of immunity though I would be skeptical it's on the level of an MMR/Polio. In context, most immunity wanes from any vaccination anyway. I expect they are now working on determining an adequate antibody level, but we probably won't know till well into next year.
Are Trudeau's talking points about a country you don't even live in doing much damage in Jersey right now? Not to mention the country in question has done an immensely better job than the United States is slowing the spread of COVID.
I'm not a fan of the government fucking with my shit either however the shear incompetence of the United States government at multiple levels has screwed everyone. Why is it so hard to understand this is a massive global health issue and not some petty political squabbles?
I wouldn't worry too much about us downstate NYers - we have lived through the worst in March/April and mask vigilance is well ingrained. I still see people being careful but I think indoor dining and other similar activities (plus these new enclosed outdoor dining pods) will need to be scaled back for the winter. It was always a possibility of a winter second wave but I think we are smart and believe in the science so it won't be nearly as bad. Testing takes a day or so, down from 2 weeks in the summer. I'm more worried about the out of towners and Trump supporters who seem be dying to catch and spread.
The pneumonia shot this year is a two parter as well. Interesting to see how this vaccination works out, but they set a record getting to this point, previous record was Mumps which took 4 years. As the vaccination matures it might very well improve as well, the more people involved the better information you have.
Stock market is almost hitting 30,000 guess the news from Moderna, and Pfizer is going to blow the lid off. You still have other multiple big boy companies out there like J and J, and others. JandJ vaccine is almost ready as well, reportedly it’s a one shot and done compared to the others which are two.
Hope you're right, but I am tending towards the opposite prediction due to Thanksgiving, and also the impossibility of proper protection in environments such as close packed metropolitan areas largely built on islands.
and the CEO just happens to have scheduled his 40% stake cashout for $83 million for this day two months ago- what luck!!!
Something tells me you’re not pro choice though...
My 2 cents:
Wearing masks, social distancing, using hand sanitizers frequently, wiping surfaces down....all good practices to prevent the spread.
Protecting elderly and at risk.....absolutely we all should take initiative to give guidance to them and protect them the best we can from exposure until a vaccine is available form them.
Having “Senior Hrs” at stores...good.
Govt mandated lockdown of society and shutting down businesses....not good IMO. Specific to this topic, keep the breweries and taprooms open for business but limit numbers, kick people out if they aren’t playing by the safety rules. If you are old or at risk employee, figure out how to adjust processes to work safely or don’t work if you think it’s too risky for you or your staff.
I think Big Pharma was just understood, as is oil, as is the steel industry. It’s dirty crooked, but unfortunately they have carte blanc, their lobby is super powerful and extremely liberal with cash.
No I am pro choice
My wife’s life is on the science side of this as well, her units are getting hammered again, but the spikes were very predictable. Let me see, Beach/summer vacation season/ school starting/ winter holidays such as Thanksgiving, Xmas, Ski travel season. Come Feb and the 1st Q on 2021 it’ll quiet down again.
Well absolutely leadership is the issue. And in this lame duck period we are getting slammed to the point of having our choices very limited as to how we are going to knock this back.
Thanks but you get my point? ... there are other things that were developed during that period so we could take pressure of typical manufacturing and provide cheaper alternatives. Which is why it was originally invented. My apologies for fking up the history but Im sure the margarine they used then was not the same they used in WW1 and WW2.
Except whenever they allow this, even overseas in countries less mask averse due to a lack of republican culture warriors, they all had a resurgence, despite a lower baseline number of cases. It just doesn't work to have indoor dining. Tracing and testing is nice, when cases aren't off the charts and people are cooperative.
We need to shut indoor dining and drinking down, and have a $3 trillion dollar bailout minimum to cover restaurants, bars, breweries, and their employees, plus state and local bailouts (since they are incentivized to maximize tax revenue and maintain open businesses, even if in the long run it will hurt the economy and, you know, kill lots of people), along with more checks to individuals and other assorted business and employees that are most effected by the pandemic.
Also your last paragraph seems to highlight a huge issue. Minority groups in particular have been hit far worse both economically and in terms of death. It's nice white collar (and more often white people) get to work at home or safely I'm jobs without a lot of public contact. But that isn't MANY peoples' experiences.
Final issue. Police aren't equipped to go bar to bar to be checking on capacity numbers, and a lot of people bought into the nonsense I've even seen on this board. We need centralized strong leadership if we don't want unnecessary death and economic suffering (unless you own stock, then who cares! Everything is fine! Who needs a lockdown?)
We are going to have to wrestle with the facts that the main way this spreads is indoors in groups, and the worst offenders are restaurants and bars. All other indoor gatherings are also spreader events.
But the main things we Americans need to wrestle with is that many of our neighbors don't read, don't get good info, listen only to bullshit, are easily swayed by emotional lies and propaganda, aren't capable to learn from experience, and don't make appropriate, logical choices.
In future, even more than now, determining how to protect ourselves and our society from these people will be part and parcel of protecting ourselves from disease.