How is COVID-19 impacting your beer advocacy?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by elNopalero, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (4,697) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon
    Society

    Just wanted to semi-vent a bit:
    Have to say i am pretty upset over the new rules on establishments, as going out is a huge part of my off work life.
    Having finished a relationship half way through the big shutdown and now solo..i am already bored to death and asking for more work. Might even get bored enough to start another relationship..bad.
    At least earlier i could go out hiking etc get some sun
    Now the beer part. I think the governor is using an extremely blunt instrument..a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel on this covid thing.
    Every place i go drinking has been strictly enforcing distancing/masks/cleaning etc..and i have read of no brewpups/taphouses being to source of any outbreak of covid..most outbreaks come from parties at home/churches and workplaces. I only know of one place bar/line dance place that has mostly ignored the rules ( flies a Trump flag outside) and has been reported and no action taken.
    You know what, if places start to disobey and ignore Brown's orders i will be with them as long as we keep up the distancing/masks. Courtyard Fitness clubs in Salem are disobeying. Good for them.
    I have had enough nonsense..the State will not enforce when things opened up now they enforce on everyone.
    They need to be more focused..these blanket bans..particularly in the dark gloomy winter will drive many into mental illness.
     
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  2. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (7,224) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    I hear you, and have similar thoughts. That being said, I think the governor is between a rock and a hard place on this issue. Covid cases are skyrocketing, and I think she figures she's got to at least appear to be doing something. Also, I think she figures she has to try to send a message to the Tootie Smiths of the world. A waste, I agree, as you can't fix stupid.

    It's beyond annoying though, as the bars and restaurants here in pdx have bent over backwards to enforce the governor's social distancing guidelines. The only explanation I can think of is that forcing bars, restaurants and gyms to shut down for a while, will remind people that Covid is serious and everyone needs to treat it that way. A complete waste of energy IMHO, as some people aren't going to learn, no matter how many governor directives are promulgated.

    But like you I gather, the closures really piss me off, as I know it's causing real pain for a number of businesses in town, including the folks they employ. At least for now, it's for a relatively brief period of time. At least there's that.
     
  3. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Poo-Bah (9,924) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Society Trader

    Well, we (collectively) didn't behave when given the chance......

    All the answers are above my paygrade, but I do have a question.

    Can someone explain to me, like I'm an 8 year old idiot child from an inbred, upriver family, how having seating "outdoors", that is in a fully enclosed tent, with heaters, is better than indoor seating with barricades between tables? Especially since several places around me spent bucks on high volume air movers and filters?

    I'm on the side of safety and precaution, but, we're blocking off traffic lanes so folks can drink and eat outside, while inhaling exhaust fumes from vehicular traffic, and that's better than properly ventilated and circulated air inside?

    I ain't none too bright, please use small words and short sentences in your replies...
     
  4. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (4,697) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon
    Society

    Yeah the enclosed tents in the winter makes little sense..last weekend i sat outside the tent..yes it was cold and wet but i had company and a nice coat!
     
  5. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (4,697) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon
    Society

    Also almost everyone i know and saw was following the rules...except that one country Trump place..shut them down let the rest of us be!
     
    #845 Reidrover, Nov 21, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  6. DefenCorps

    DefenCorps Poo-Bah (6,172) Jan 18, 2007 Oregon
    Society Trader

    I feel for you, @Reidrover . I'm glad nature therapy is available to you, and that you live in a place where you have plenty of access. The risks to mental health and well-being from prolonged isolation and disruption of social connections are real. We are social beings, after all.
    However, I do think that she's right here. Failing action, in a few weeks,we will be where the Midwest and Mountain west are today.The health care workers are stretched too thin at this point, and patently unfairly so. Thanks to a collective failure(as @beertunes says rightly) and a shocking lack of governance at the federal level (at levels approaching criminal, in my book), we're here again.
     
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  7. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (4,697) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon
    Society

    I know it is criminal from the Feds. Just venting and feeling bad for my many friends in the industry..hope Oregon Employment Department has things fixed this time..they were a disgrace earlier
     
  8. heyhiggi

    heyhiggi Initiate (90) Sep 6, 2014 Oregon
    Trader

    I work in healthcare and because so much of the population is not being responsible we have to do theses things. Didn’t have to be this way.
    A few thoughts
    - we are on the cusp of disaster
    - you say bars/pubs are not a source of spread. We have no idea. Community spread is so out of control we can not trace. You hear about weddings and churches only because that is the only thing we can trace right.
    - I for one can not support risking lives so people can drink or go to strip clubs, federal financial support would allow these places to survive another six months of hardship
    - as for the tents, they are no more safe than indoors what they do is expand the space so restaurants can serve more people
     
  9. distantmantra

    distantmantra Meyvn (1,197) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Trader

    All of this.

    We didn’t listen enough and do the things we needed to. I’m glad we live in states such as Washington and Oregon that actually care about keeping people alive. My wife is from Nebraska and they’re not doing anything. Just because you can eat and drink at a business there you doesn’t mean you want to be like Nebraska right now. And sadly, the only organization that can print as much money as they want to help people out is the federal government and they clearly don’t care about any of us. At all.
     
  10. traction

    traction Devotee (466) Dec 4, 2010 Georgia
    Trader

    The amount of bottle shares I've seen locally recently is ridiculous. I've passed on them all and missed out a of beer I would like to try but the last thing I need is another bought with COVID. I wish Tavour delivered to GA, you are lucky to have access to them!
     
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  11. shelby415

    shelby415 Meyvn (1,121) Oct 10, 2011 Oregon
    Trader

    I'm still waiting on Oregon Employment Dept funds from June, so I wouldn't depend on it.
     
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  12. mactrail

    mactrail Poo-Bah (12,141) Mar 24, 2009 Washington
    Moderator Society Trader

    I totally miss a bunch of beer places in several states, the company, the food, and meeting new people. But unfortunately it's mask-free laughing, drinking, and eating that keep this stuff going and going.

    But meanwhile the breweries are almost all surviving, and we can stock up on great new brews with little risk. And we have Beer Advocate to share rants and raves. Here's a toast of (foooosh)...... Deschutes Royal Fresh to all you folks!
     
  13. not2quick

    not2quick Savant (963) Dec 1, 2015 Missouri
    Society Trader

    Agreed. Narcissism is a bigger pandemic than COVID-19.
     
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  14. Stevedore

    Stevedore Poo-Bah (6,462) Nov 16, 2012 Oregon
    Society Trader

    Cosign. I also work in healthcare at a Portland-area hospital. We are in bad shape with hospital capacity and staffing. We are bracing for things to get even worse after Thanksgiving. Lots of sick people in the hospital and even if you free up more beds, people seem to think that properly trained, experienced staff grow on trees out here.
     
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  15. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (8,229) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    Society

    I played trivia with some friends last week. I found out that they tested positive for COVID-19, so I got tested. Yep. I have it too though I don't have any symptoms.
     
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  16. traction

    traction Devotee (466) Dec 4, 2010 Georgia
    Trader

    The way our government handled it it seems inevitable it because endemic and the majority of people catch it. I had "mild" symptoms as defined by the CDC and it really sucked. Hopefully you remain asymptomatic but it just shows how easy it is for this to spread. I bet a quite a few people on this site are asymptomatic and don't realize they are positive. I am sure you will beat it no problem as the vast majority of people do.
     
  17. followerofmen

    followerofmen Initiate (104) Sep 9, 2012 Massachusetts

    Why did you do that
     
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  18. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (8,229) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    Society

    Stupidity.
     
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  19. bonsainut

    bonsainut Initiate (40) Oct 23, 2014 North Carolina

    Well... I was part owner of a bar. And we had to close.

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/9...ter-98-years-pandemic-fallout-bowling-chicago

    Such a cool place. An original Schlitz beer-hall from before Prohibition. Last place in Chicago to use pin-boys in the bowling alley. We just couldn't stay open with the pool hall and bowling alley closed... and foot traffic a fraction of what it used to be. We used to get a lot of traffic on Cubs game days - being just down the street from Wrigley Field. Oh well.
     
    #859 bonsainut, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  20. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Disciple (300) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

  21. Junior

    Junior Champion (851) May 23, 2015 Michigan
    Society Trader

    There is a docudrama on Netflix called the Social Dilemma. It discusses the societal changes since the proliferation of social media. These include declining mental health and increased political division.
     
  22. bonsainut

    bonsainut Initiate (40) Oct 23, 2014 North Carolina

    It's ok - we had a good run. 29 years, LOL! Since before I was married! I am hoping we sell the business to someone with a passion for the heritage and history... and they dust it off and it is as good - if not better - than it always was. I was just an investor and not the general partner who had to deal with the daily stress of operations. I also wasn't the one who had to furlough/release all the employees. Very sad indeed. But if one person went to that bar, caught Covid and died from it, I would feel worse.
     
  23. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,110) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Serious question, do you feel any responsibility for any one who might have gone to your bar, over imbibed and made a choice that lead to a venerial disease or unwanted pregnancy? What about a person who caught a flu or cold that was ultimately part of a fatal chain of infection?
     
  24. Chipotle

    Chipotle Aspirant (204) Apr 23, 2017 New York

    Though I see the point you're trying to make, these things you mention are really not comparable to the pandemic.
     
  25. stillill

    stillill Initiate (39) Mar 6, 2016 Washington

    My advice? Stop being selfish and stay away from people. And wear your mask. You shouldn't get an exception to the rule because you're sad. Do your part and hope that others do as well.
     
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  26. bonsainut

    bonsainut Initiate (40) Oct 23, 2014 North Carolina

    It is a tough question - one of personal freedoms versus society's responsibility towards its members.

    In this case I believe the answer is not black and white - it is shades of grey. People go about their lives, and indulge in more or less risky behaviors. We as a society have accepted this. However as a commercial institution, our bar has a certain responsibility to our customers and our employees to provide a "safe" environment. If the bar is clean, healthy, food is good, beer is good, etc, and you get drunk and have unsafe sex - that's on you. If, however, we can't provide a safe environment because there's a pandemic going on, and the pool tables and bowling lanes are too close together to allow social distancing, and we don't have enough tables to be able to spread people out enough... What do you do? Say "fuck it" and hope that no one dies? Because you want to make money? That's not a particularly good way to run a business, in my opinion.

    It isn't fair, and life isn't fair. This pandemic is creating losers and it is creating winners. E-commerce? Online order and delivery? Streaming entertainment? You're golden.

    Travel and entertainment? You're screwed.

    Forget my bar for a moment. Disney laid off 28,000 employees in September.
     
    #866 bonsainut, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  27. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (2,771) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    Oh no. But the positive part is that your positive, your not sick, and likely won’t be, and you get antibodies. In 14 days you can go hit the bars again. Just goes to show you never know, only a vaccine in an answer. Hope it works out well which is a certainty.
     
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  28. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,110) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    I would say that the influenza issue is at least comparable. Is there some particular infection fatality thresh hold at which public spaces are expected to.switch from being unconcerned to extremely concerned with their possible role in transmission?
     
  29. Chipotle

    Chipotle Aspirant (204) Apr 23, 2017 New York

    Yes, there is.
     
  30. bonsainut

    bonsainut Initiate (40) Oct 23, 2014 North Carolina

    Yes there is. And in case you think I'm arguing against you - you are raising many of the exact same points I argued with friends, family and colleagues earlier this year. Sure we can tell people they need to stay home every time there is a communicable disease outbreak... but at what cost?

    The problem is - when dealing with a problem of this scale it is extremely difficult to get exact numbers. How high does the fatality risk need to be in order to temporarily close social settings? The answer is: "High enough".

    Even now we don't have exact numbers of how many people have had Covid-19. I would guess it is 8x higher than the number of confirmed cases (based on a handful of population sampling studies I have read). Even so, the fatality risk is many times higher than the fatality risk for seasonal flu. And worse is the contagion risk, and how certain "at risk" populations can be completely devastated, to say nothing of the fact that some people can be asymptomatic, and can unknowingly spread the virus to others who die from it. Our testing capacity is reactionary, and people usually don't get tested unless they feel symptoms, at which point the cow is already out of the barn, and all we can tell them is - yup, this is the disease you had and spread to 20 different people.

    Even now, the best we can do is say "stay home as much as possible" and hope that we can "flatten the curve" until we get a vaccine. Not very comforting, given we are supposed to be such a medically advanced society.

    If the bar was an essential service, you'd hear me raging. However at the end of the day, I know that we are just a facility serving beers, good pub fries, and allowing people to play games. Based on reviewing the data from multiple sources daily - I honestly believe the virus is going to burn itself out and we are going to reach herd immunity before a vaccine is broadly distributed and applied to the majority of our population. The only thing we can do in the interim is hold our breaths, wear masks, stay away from public settings, and slow it down so our medical resources aren't overwhelmed.

    I had my family Thanksgiving dinner via Zoom call.
     
    #870 bonsainut, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  31. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (3,102) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Society Trader

    If you consider that our freedom to interact with each other is limited by not committing fraud upon, and not inflicting injury to, each other, this question is very interesting. Is your entrance into my sphere a tacit guarantee by you that you are not infectious? Is it each of our personal responsibility to know daily if we are infectious? Could it even be considered inflicting injury if you infect someone else with a disease?

    Should we try to influence behavior in ways beyond relying on peoples' good intentions, informed motivation, and personal sense of responsibility? If so, how, and what limits should be put on it?
     
  32. bonsainut

    bonsainut Initiate (40) Oct 23, 2014 North Carolina

    It comes down to - risk versus cost.

    If the risk is high, and the cost is low, our society typically accepts it as reasonable. Government has to convince us of its reasonableness... or else we vote out the government and replace it with another government whose stance is more to our liking.

    That's why I get really pissed off when I see people at Walmart who can't seem to wear a mask. Our business gets closed down... but these people can't be bothered to wear a fucking mask? I wonder if they expect to get a check from the Federal government? I would laugh so hard if people got denied checks because they refused to wear masks in social settings. Any time I see someone out in public without a mask, I feel the same way as if they were giving me the finger.
     
  33. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (3,102) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Society Trader

    I take my personal space as my territory, and people coming in to my territory, or not wearing a mask, are enemy invaders. I am glad (in a way) to say that due to our earlier catastrophic results here with the first wave there is virtually no one who doesn't wear a mask around others, and only a few who invade others' spaces. Can't speak for others, but the motivating image for me was of rows upon rows of refrigerator trucks of corpses.

    I'd like to think that at this point everyone in the country has been within, or near enough to, disaster that the same message would be understood by everyone, but we live in a country of many, many people who don't learn from experience.
     
  34. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,110) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Those are some interesting questions and I wish that they were being discussed a bit more. In general, my expectation of myself and
     
  35. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,110) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Sorry my phone was glitching out.

    Long and short, I expect myself and others to keep to themselves when we are experiencing symptoms (unfortunately we don't have a society that makes that an option for many people.)

    Beyond that, I don't think anyone has any inherent right to never encounter any pathogens out in the world. In fact, that's impossible to guarantee and attempting to deliver that will only result in massive restrictions on all of society's basic freedoms.

    As to controlling peoples behaviors, I think we are living in the midst of a massive experiment to that end, largely through social media. And I don't think the results are good. And I don't think that openly assigning the task of behavioral control to some government agency has much chance of producing positive results
     
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  36. eagles22

    eagles22 Devotee (443) Sep 7, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I get whatever is fresh when it comes to hoppy brews and if I see a stout I want I just grab it
     
  37. VitisVinifera

    VitisVinifera Initiate (157) Feb 25, 2013 California

    Day 1 of shutdown round two. Round one lasted 7.5 months, then we were open 6 weeks, now round two. During those 6 weeks I did visit at least one brewery a week, including an Oktoberfest (Tilted Mash in Elk Grove), and got on the local news while picking up Thanksgiving dinner at a truly excellent bbq restaraunt/brewery (Urban Roots in Sacramento). Managed to get a bunch of semi-ageworthy beers to last a while. I know there's a lot of bellyaching going on, but once it gets cold and rainy (which hasn't happened yet in NorCal), who is going to want to have more than one beer outside anyway?
     
  38. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (2,110) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    This is why you sacramentons don't get to be in the norcal club! :wink: Cold and rainy just means you need more than one beer outside
     
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  39. nuplastikk

    nuplastikk Initiate (111) Aug 28, 2008 Pennsylvania

    The solution has been worse than the problem.

    I don't think it is fake, but I do believe that companies like Amazon, Google, Facebook, Apple (which have way too much power and influence in our government) are quite inclined to exploit it. All too eager to institute "the new normal". Political parties tried to exploit it as well. Our suspect Health Care industry seems to be making considerable profit from it too.

    No one was going to put any unique restrictions on seniors during an election year, but it is quite clear that they are the ones at risk and they are the ones who will put a (profitable) strain on hospitals. That all the media propaganda fails to address who it affects most is concerning. Immunity after having Covid seems really downplayed as well.

    Bars get waaaay too much flack. Everyone's favorite scapegoat. Bars may be non-essential, but so is the majority of what is sold in grocery stores.

    I would have been completely alright with a real shutdown/quarantine, as the environmental impact was so apparent and amazing. I think we should do planned shutdowns of all driving and flying for weeks at a time regularly. Of course, this wouldn't be convenient either and the masses would flip out.


    The main way it impacts my beer world : My favorite brewery only sells overpriced crowlers now.
     
    #879 nuplastikk, Dec 8, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  40. stairway2heavn

    stairway2heavn Initiate (132) Aug 17, 2017 New Jersey

    Hospitals aren't making more money. They've actually lost money due to having to purchase PPE and more importantly a restriction on elective procedures. Much like breweries that depend on draft sales (higher margin than cans, and obviously doesn't require renting or buying a canning line), hospitals get much better margins on procedures that are outpatient and semi-elective or at least non emergent. That's where they really make a profit. Believe it or not they actually don't make their money on a 77 yo Medicare patient with COVID intubated for two weeks.
    The hospital systems in this area all took a big hit with the lack of procedures and can't easily afford another near complete shutdown without government help, again.
    Same as breweries, restaurants, and bars.